Spoilers - GG R/L SS #262: For DSR, Inconsistency is the New Black - Page 4

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 05:49 PM

CineFille, I think we are actually all having a reasonable discussion. The main problem is that you don't agree with us and we don't agree with you. Which is fine, considering that the world would be very boring if we all agree with each other.

However, as Jason stated, you are either not seeing our collective points, or are choosing to ignore them. Lorelai, no matter what happens, is most likely not going to break-up R/L directly. Most likely, it will be the issues and complexes she instilled in Rory that will lead to the demise of this relationship. Based on this, Lorelai is at fault for Rory, which ties her into Rory's history of failure in love.

Also, Rory may not be ready for marriage, which is acceptable. However, where did she think her relationship with Logan was going? Everything she has done in her relationship with Logan would indicate, to any emotionally developed person, that marriage was the next step. If Rory was not ready for this, she should have been communicating with Logan. Rory has significant communication issues, which are due to Lorelai and have interfered with their relationship before. Any person could tell that the next move for Logan was to propose based on this season and last.

As for your scenario Mickey, as Jason stated, when you say "no" it's over. If Rory indeed says no, R/L are over. There is no way Logan would consider just dating Rory when he wanted to marry her. Finding out that the person you want to marry doesn't want to marry you, no matter how it is sugarcoated, spells the end of the relationship and any chance of a friendship. If the proposal occurs and Rory says no, Logan is gone for good. If this occurs and Logan is done with GG, I will be very saddened, for his character will have been shortchanged. GG has missed many opportunities to develop his character which has been disappointing to me since I actually like Logan better than any other character.

MickeyJr3000 · 03-30-2007, 05:52 PM

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Stephanie, no offense, but what kind of bollocks is that? Do you have no idea how a men work? No man on earth functions as you describing with that bull****.

I really hope that that's not true of all men.

I hope Logan is a gentleman when the break-up happens. It doesn't make Rory evil if she thinks she's not ready to get married right now. It's very sad for him, and I get that, I just hope that the writers demonstrate just how close Rory and Logan have been for three years and make the parting moments reflect that. People grow apart from one another and split up...it's a fact of life. But I don't think that all splits are terrible...yes, they're probably really tough for the first few days (more depending on how long the relationship lasted), but I would love the sense of composure between L/R in the scene to reflect that they DO care for one another, even if they're not together. Even if Rory's feelings have changed a little bit, I want the essense to stay there. I don't want Rory to be made to look like a terrible person and I dont' want Logan to either. I think it's possible.

ETA:

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If Rory was not ready for this, she should have been communicating with Logan.

Perhaps she didn't know that Logan was thinking about marriage all this time. But I'm sure that when the opportunity occurs when he asks her, she will be honest with him. I hope. I hope she tells him "I'm not ready to get married."
And although they have had a great 3 years, I don't think that means that she has to be ready for marriage when Logan is. I think that's essentially the complication between Rory and Logan, rather than any of Lorelai's relationship faults. I think Rory has been great as a romantic partner for Logan. But I think it's just that, at this point in her life, the two of them are not on the same wavelength. Logan's ready to settle and get married (after his college years of partying and exploring), and Rory, after settling and working hard in school, is ready to go out and explore, and not ready to settle into marriage. I think Rory would, in a few years, be open to marriage. I would hope that she was open to marriage with Logan in 5 years, but alas, I don't think that's going to happen, as breakups ARE very hard and sad and I wouldn't want Logan to feel okay 'waiting' for her after a breakup, waiting until she's done trying other options, dating other guys to decide she really wants him after all.

That said, I still want Logan not to hate Rory, and vice versa.

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As for your scenario Mickey, as Jason stated, when you say "no" it's over. If Rory indeed says no, R/L are over. There is no way Logan would consider just dating Rory when he wanted to marry her. Finding out that the person you want to marry doesn't want to marry you, no matter how it is sugarcoated, spells the end of the relationship and any chance of a friendship.

I agree with the first statement. I don't think it's likely that anyone sticks around in a relationship if someone declines a proposal. (Kind of how Lorelai dumped Luke because he wasn't ready to marry her). It makes you doubt if your partner really loves you. Anyway, I dont' think it makes sense for Logan to continue dating Rory after she declines his proposal. And while I wholeheartedly agree that they cannot instantly jump into a friendship with eachother after their breakup, I hope that the breakup implies that, eventually, hard feelings will slip away and a chance at some sort of friendship is possible. Eventually being like, two years later when they bump eachother at the airport. Not that they'll be BFF or anything, but rather, friendly acquaintences who can stand being in the same room together, and once a year go out for coffee to catch up on things. Kind of like Richard and Pennylinn Lott, actually. I think that's an idea I'll stand behind.

Jasper1975 · 03-30-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashinglySweet (View Post)

CineFille, I think we are actually all having a reasonable discussion. The main problem is that you don't agree with us and we don't agree with you. Which is fine, considering that the world would be very boring if we all agree with each other.

However, as Jason stated, you are either not seeing our collective points, or are choosing to ignore them. Lorelai, no matter what happens, is most likely not going to break-up R/L directly. Most likely, it will be the issues and complexes she instilled in Rory that will lead to the demise of this relationship. Based on this, Lorelai is at fault for Rory, which ties her into Rory's history of failure in love.

Also, Rory may not be ready for marriage, which is acceptable. However, where did she think her relationship with Logan was going? Everything she has done in her relationship with Logan would indicate, to any emotionally developed person, that marriage was the next step. If Rory was not ready for this, she should have been communicating with Logan. Rory has significant communication issues, which are due to Lorelai and have interfered with their relationship before. Any person could tell that the next move for Logan was to propose based on this season and last.
As for your scenario Mickey, as Jason stated, when you say "no" it's over. If Rory indeed says no, R/L are over. There is no way Logan would consider just dating Rory when he wanted to marry her. Finding out that the person you want to marry doesn't want to marry you, no matter how it is sugarcoated, spells the end of the relationship and any chance of a friendship. If the proposal occurs and Rory says no, Logan is gone for good. If this occurs and Logan is done with GG, I will be very saddened, for his character will have been shortchanged. GG has missed many opportunities to develop his character which has been disappointing to me since I actually like Logan better than any other character.

Maybe, just maybe, Rory doesn't see she's not ready for marriage until the possibility comes up. Until then, she's in a relationship. One that had issues at times. But maybe she though it was for her.

But when Logan proposes, she's forced to see her future. Maybe she's not ready for marriage.

I realize it's sucks for fans. But we have no evidence of yet that Lorelai has any part of the breakup.

She may have doubts, given what she knows of Logan and Rory's relationship. But there is no evidence, she tells Rory anything.

It may be all on Rory when she's asked to marry Logan. And she's faces her answer of No.

So rant and rave. I have done it numerous times for my favorite couples. But I am not ready to condem Lorelai, when we have no evidence...she's responsible.

But time will tell.

Spikette · 03-30-2007, 06:05 PM

After catching up and reading some of the posts here on this thread, I have to say that I am really sorry. I feel the pain expressed in posts like yours, Jason and George, to name a few. I am not as invested in Rory and Logan as a couple as you are, but I do understand your pain because I have been in situations where the couple I "rooted" for didn't work out.

Owtpalready posted this on the L&L thread and I thought the part in bold looked hopeful. I am sorry if someone already posted this.

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I don't know if anyone has posted this, but I took a tour of the wb set, and my tour guide was great. It was only myself and four others from my family, so he took us wherever we wanted. i asked him some things about the show, and he also said that Logan proposes, and that Luke and Lorelai make up. He also said something about logan living in San Francisco or them making a set for an apartment there. I didn't really know what he was talking about so I didn't totally understand it, but I think that is what the thing that Logan says about San Fransisco is.

see below for the entire post. Thanks, captnerin! LOL

captnerin · 03-30-2007, 06:06 PM

i hope this is alright that im bringing this from the other thread..

Quote:

Originally Posted by owtpalready (View Post)

I don't know if anyone has posted this, but I took a tour of the wb set, and my tour guide was great. It was only myself and four others from my family, so he took us wherever we wanted. i asked him some things about the show, and he also said that Logan proposes, and that Luke and Lorelai make up. He also said something about logan living in San Francisco or them making a set for an apartment there. I didn't really know what he was talking about so I didn't totally understand it, but I think that is what the thing that Logan says about San Fransisco is.

then..

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Originally Posted by owtpalready (View Post)

He didn't say when it happened, but being he knew that and that they haven't started filming the last episode (what I'm guessing because they were just filming at USC) I wuold guess that all that stuff happens before the last episode. I don't know if it happens in the same episode though, because he never said.

then..

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Originally Posted by owtpalready (View Post)

.. I also don't know if they are for sure building that set. I forgot to mention that the tour guide said that it looked like they were kind of wrappping things up. Very depressing.

rexsgirl29 · 03-30-2007, 06:09 PM

lorelai has absolutly no right to say logan is immature..sure hes done some stupid things but take a look in the mirror woman u are the defination of immature.
i hate that this show is going to end on such a horrible note for me.
makes me wonder if logan is asking lorelai for his permission to ask rory to marry him.

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 06:11 PM

Jasper, the whole thing is that we are not blaming Lorelai for the break-up, but rather for Rory in general. Rory has a lot of issues that are due to Lorelai. We are not stating that Rory is unjustified in declining the proposal. Maybe she realizes she is not ready for marriage when given the option, however, any emotionally developed person would have recognized that marriage was the next step. As a result, she should have been talking to Logan about the future of their relationship rather than Lucy, Olivia, and Lorelai. If she had openly communicated with him, they could have had a chance with this relationship. However, Rory learned communication and relationships from Lorelai. So, we are not condemning Lorelai, but rather pointing out the flaws in the Lorelai and Rory relationship that have fostered Rory's issues with life and relationships.

Feel free to disagree, but the fact of the matter is that upbringing plays a huge role in development and Lorelai never showed Rory a functional male/female relationship and constantly touted that she could do anything she wanted without the help of others.

Word rexsgirl!

Thanks for the information about a possible SF set! If this is the end, Rory better chase Logan in the finale. Otherwise, I wasted 7 years watching a show that screwed me over with every couple I liked.

coobeastie · 03-30-2007, 06:12 PM

So if they're building that set it would mean that Logan is prolly in the finale, right?

Spikette · 03-30-2007, 06:13 PM

Or that what happens in 7.21 isn't the end. Maybe a season 8, if I was to be so bold.

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 06:18 PM

With these recent spoilers, I am warming up to the idea of a season 8. However, if we get another season, I want Rory away from Lorelai and want to see more of Logan and R/L. I want to see both characters grow, together. The only reasons I watch this show are for Rory and Logan. If they're gone, so I am I and I doubt I am the only that feels this way.

ETA: Mickey, while I think your idea of R/L eventually becoming friends is nice, I just don't think it could ever happen. Logan has been portrayed as someone who is passionate about everything he chooses to do. He chose to be with Rory and he apparently chooses to propose to her. No matter what happens, her refusal will be a thorn in his side forever. She will always be the one that he wanted wholeheartedly, but who didn't want him. As a result, they will never be able to friends. At the very least, it would take more than a couple of years to get past it.

Jasper1975 · 03-30-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashinglySweet (View Post)

Jasper, the whole thing is that we are not blaming Lorelai for the break-up, but rather for Rory in general. Rory has a lot of issues that are due to Lorelai. We are not stating that Rory is unjustified in declining the proposal. Maybe she realizes she is not ready for marriage when given the option, however, any emotionally developed person would have recognized that marriage was the next step. As a result, she should have been talking to Logan about the future of their relationship rather than Lucy, Olivia, and Lorelai. If she had openly communicated with him, they could have had a chance with this relationship. However, Rory learned communication and relationships from Lorelai. So, we are not condemning Lorelai, but rather pointing out the flaws in the Lorelai and Rory relationship that have fostered Rory's issues with life and relationships.

Feel free to disagree, but the fact of the matter is that upbringing plays a huge role in development and Lorelai never showed Rory a functional male/female relationship and constantly touted that she could do anything she wanted without the help of others.

Never claimed that Rory had the most stable of childhoods. She was raised by a teenage single mother. Who had to scrap and save for everything they gained. And had a sometimes here, absentee father in Chris...who was present but not that present.

And then when highschool hit. Lorelai sacrificed her pride to go to the parents she had been estranged from, to get her daughter the best education possible. Maybe it was for the best, because since...Lorelai has become closer to her parents. If not for Rory and Chilton, maybe they would never have crossed the impass.

Rory definately has issues with guys. Just like her mother.

And unfortunately Rory never had the stable parent life to help her see what a good relationship is... Although I still maintain, Lorelai did pretty good considering she was 16 when she gave birth and was alone.

But still, Rory has issues. Although her relationship with Logan is probably more stable than any Lorelai ever had. It's probably the longest. So Rory has learned something.

Logan is just at fault for not discussing stuff with Rory. He likes to run when things get hard. And not discuss things with Rory until it's too late. So while Rory has issues in this relationship, so does Logan.

I guess we'll see how it plays out. It could surprise us and be completely different than we think!

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 06:53 PM

Jasper, I see where you are coming from. However, I do not agree.

Rory did not have a stable childhood because of Lorelai. Lorelai chose to leave R/E who were willing to help her out and she cut Chris out of her and Rory's life when she left without consulting him. Sure they were not ready for marriage, but Chris was willing to step up for the sake of Rory while Lorelai could not. Even after Rory was born, Lorelai only thought of herself. She left the safety and comfort of R/E's because she couldn't take it anymore. It would have been better for Rory if they had stayed.

In regards to Lorelai sacrificing her pride, I don't agree 100% with your post. Sure she sacrificed her pride to ask for money, but it wouldn't have been such a big deal if she hadn't cut her parents out of her life completely. R/E loved both her and Rory and she cut off ties with them for her own personal motivation. IMO, Rory would have had a better childhood if she had not been so isolated from her father and grandparents.

As for Lorelai doing pretty good considering she was alone, ok. But the problem I have is that she chose to do it alone. She did not want to accept help and actually balked at assistance. Everyone could have done more for Rory, but the fact remains that Lorelai, as her mother, should have made decisions that were in the best interest of Rory and not herself.

Finally, I agree that Rory has learned something since her relationship with Logan is stabler than any of Lorelai's relationship. However, I don't feel Logan is as at fault as Rory for their communication issues. In season 6 Logan should have talked to Rory before assuming they were broken up, but Rory is more at fault IMO. If I refused to leave with my boyfriend and did not call him for weeks, I would have assumed we were broken up as well. Therefore, I don't really consider him at fault for that. Sure he could have told her about the bridesmaids, but he had good intentions. After BR, Logan knew something was wrong and asked and tried to get Rory to talk, but Rory stymied his efforts. As for the London debacle, Logan didn't tell Rory because he thought he could get out of it and he did not want to do it. When you say it out loud, it is more real, and that is not what he wanted.

Additionally, after his business failure he couldn't face telling her. I mean after years of being a disappointment, you have someone who is proud of you. Do you really shatter that illusion by admitting your colossal mistake? Probably not. The mature thing would have been to talk about it and make decisions together, but I understand why he did what he did. The thing is that Logan is the one always running after Rory and compromising, which is unfair. Also, I never said that Logan was perfect. They both have issues. However, I think Rory's issues are more fatal to a relationship than Logan's.

Finally, we will see how it plays out! However, if R/L part for good, I no longer care about GG and will work on divesting myself of my dvds.

nola · 03-30-2007, 07:01 PM

my spec (and i SO better be wrong!) is that the "talk" Logan and Lorelai have at the CS is the part where Lorelai sees him as irresponsible. Wonderful way to make the "work-dork" dig his own grave. I really feel like MC's lines in that will be the writers' "out" for the R/L relationship.

What did i say earlier this year about a "reflective season" jason????? so sad that that is actually going to play out until the very end...

Jet1945 · 03-30-2007, 07:06 PM

Just a Note of Comparison - Before you get spun up about a possible set for Logan in San Francisco - Recall the info we got about the motel set and it was used for one episode for about 30-45 seconds total screen time.

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 07:18 PM

Jet, I never assumed, if there indeed is a SF set, that it would be used for much screen time. Logan and his storyline's continually get the shaft on GG. If there is a set, I bet we get a 15 second scene of Logan looking wistfully at a picture of him and Rory and then it flashes to Rory all alone on her adventure.

Nola, I bet you are right about where Lorelai sees Logan as irresponsible. However, I just have a hard time grasping the concept of Lorelai finding someone else immature. No offense, but does anyone else remember in season 1 when Rory was trying to study for her huge Shakespeare test and Lorelai kept bugging her? That is not the picture of maturity, IMO. Additionally, I cannot understand what transpires that makes Lorelai think Logan is irresponsible in the face of what we have seen this season. To me it's just another easy out for the GG writers and DSR, much like what occured with C/L, but I digress.