Spoilers - GG R/L SS #262: For DSR, Inconsistency is the New Black - Page 3

CineFille · 03-30-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJSW (View Post)

George, I could have sworn you and I had a conversation about something. Huh. I guess not. Nevertheless, thanks Linny, and while I am over titles. I do like that one...a lot.

Look; if you are a fan of Lorelai. Go to the FAN OF LORELAI THREAD. In here, she's screwing over a vastly superiour character (yes, I am coming across ungodly pompus, but it's a fair point. Lorelai should keep her mouth shut. Instead, she's making it all about her -- again -- and she needs a moment removed from HER...dont you think?) in all areas because LOW AND BEHOLD...he actually has FEELINGS FOR HER DAUGHTER! Lorelai is pathetic. Luke should find a nice goth girl, settle down, and flip her off everytime he sees her in the street. Nevertheless, Lorelai, is butting her head in where it does not belong. Period...exclaimation point...or question mark...BOOM!

Again I ask, how is Lorelai "screwing over" Rory and Logan? We have absolutely no evidence that she does anything concerning R/L, so how can she be "pathetic?" Jason, you're basing your diatribe/rant on stuff that we don't even know happens!

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 04:31 PM

Christine, I have to agree that Lorelai is the most self centered character ever. When GG first started, I really liked the mother-daughter bond between Rory/Lorelai. However, as the seasons progressed, I realized that the bond I once saw was really Lorelai controlling Rory. Lorelai feels like she knows best for Rory, but this is not necessirily true. Mothers have to let their daughters decide what is right for them without judgement. Additionally, Lorelai, as someone else pointed out, isolated Rory from many people that could have augmented her life. Rory, IMO, is emotionally stunted due to her reliance on Lorelai for everything. This emotional dependence is what Lorelai fostered when she took Rory away from the other people who loved her.

I am still waiting for Rory to break out on her own and discover her true self, without her mother's voice in her head. Rory is not in a place now where she could truly succeed with her dreams. I am really curious to see CA's role on GG, because I honestly cannot see Rory actually following in her footsteps. If Rory pursues journalism, I don't think she can succeed in the field that she wants.

As for Rory and Logan, I don't think Lorelai is the direct cause for their break-up, if indeed they do. However, Lorelai is most likely a large contributor to why she declines his proposal. Look at the example she has set for Rory. Each of her relationships has ended due to her, either her personality or her actions. Lorelai seems to believe that a relationship is all about her needs and wants, something she has passed on to Rory. With this belief, no relationship will ever work.

I am still hoping that new spoilers will surface that will put a positive spin on the events that are about to unfold. However, I will no longer be watching or taping GG. I will read to see what unfolds and, if it is to my liking as a R/L fan, I will catch up on the episodes I missed in re-runs.

GEORGEIII · 03-30-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashinglySweet (View Post)

Lorelai seems to believe that a relationship is all about her needs and wants, something she has passed on to Rory. With this belief, no relationship will ever work.

Rory said as much in 7.17, when she mentioned the phrase "my terms".
In a relationship you need to consider "our (hers and his) terms", otherwise the relationship is ultimately doomed.

GEORGEIII · 03-30-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

Yep, because she is that heartless, that she wouldn't want her daughter to be happy. It is amazing how judgmental people can be about very little, very flexible information. But you're right, I'll go to the Lorelai appreciation thread.

Thank you for the thread, though, and thank you for the 7.18 information.

I think you should let us rant; it's what we have left, after all.

You're getting your happy ending, one way or the other.

We're only getting screwed, after three years of caring.

clmorrow · 03-30-2007, 04:50 PM

Though I'm not at all a fan of Chris - Lorelai's relationship with Chris at the end of season two didn't end because of her - it ended because of him and the fact that Sherry was pregnant...just a clarification.

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 05:02 PM

George, the moment I heard Rory utter the phrase "my terms" I honestly winced. It's hard to believe someone of her intelligence and experience honestly believes that she should get what she wants in a relationship regardless of the other person in it. That scene should have indicated to us that the R/L relationship is doomed, at least in DR and Lorelai's eyes.

Tara Ashley, I don't think people really think that Lorelai wants Rory to be unhappy. However, Lorelai judges everyone's actions and happiness based on her limited experience. My feeling with Lorelai and Rory in the later seasons of GG is that Lorelai wants Rory to be happy on Lorelai's terms. Therein lies the problem.

clmorrow, you are right that C/L ended in season 2 because of Sherry. However, if Sherry had not become pregnant, Lorelai would have found a way to ruin the relationship. Season 2 C/L aside, Lorelai has never been in a high functioning, emotionally developed relationship. For that, and Rory's current predicament, I blame Lorelai.

ETA: By Rory's experience, I am referring to the relationships she witnessed growing up and the demise of those she partook in.

CineFille · 03-30-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Lorelai has never been in a high functioning, emotionally developed relationship. For that, and Rory's current predicament, I blame Lorelai.

Yes, it's all Lorelai's fault. It certainly couldn't be that Rory, at 22-years-old and having just graduated from college, simply isn't ready to get married.

TheJSW · 03-30-2007, 05:14 PM

Cinefile, again, look at the evidence with Rory and her mother in terms of their relationships. It's obvious they are very much similar in not COMPROMISING WHAT SO EVER. Again, you guys, might not hate Rory or Logan or even them together. However, from where some us are sitting. Lorelai is being an asshat towards a character that we LOVE -- we mostly love him more than Rory and I never use that WE that often -- and whose better than Lorelai. He's better. Yeah he has ****ed up, but he loves at 23/24 in ways Lorelai has never ever loved. She has no right to say anything. Unless he is abusive. Unless he is verbally abusive. She should shut her mouth and sit on her hands because Lorelai has made a mess of her life. Nice of her to do the same to Rory's. My take, however, turning Logan into a bad guy is bull****. I feel so touched by a male writer that only knows love in obsession. Which makes his romantic notion a bit sick and a bit twisted.

ETA: Cinefile, this is why your argument fails; "Yes, it's all Lorelai's fault. It certainly couldn't be that Rory, at 22-years-old and having just graduated from college, simply isn't ready to get married." Uh...sorry. She has been heading there all year. She's so oblivious that she has been moving there this year, that Rory is one of the stupidest smart people...EVER. Again, Logan felt one way, because he had his heart open. Rory felt another way because she's a heartless careerist *******. Debate? Where's a debate? I see it as cut and dry.

SmashinglySweet · 03-30-2007, 05:19 PM

I have no problems with Rory and Logan not getting married. In fact, I think it is too soon for them take that step. As I am Rory's age, I would not consider getting married. However, the way Rory is being written now, based on the spoilers, reminds me more of Lorelai than Rory. The fact that DR wrote R/L to have a high functioning, emotionally developed relationship is a direct contradiction to the spoilers we are now getting. Also, for clarification, I am not blaming Lorelai for R/L splitting, but rather for how she emotionally stunted Rory and only wants Rory to be happy if Rory's actions fall into the Lorelai approved category. So, in a nutshell, I blame Lorelai for Rory's emotional blindness and instability.

Also, since I am noting your sarcasm, what is your explanation for this split, since you appear to think that Lorelai's behavior, past and present, has no bearing on Rory and how she develops her relationships. Also, do you honestly feel that Lorelai's behaviors and actions have no bearing on Rory? Lorelai reminds me of my father, which is why I, based on experience, feel that Rory needs to separate from Lorelai in order to succeed at her career and with love. Rory will never find that if she remains co-dependent on Lorelai for her happiness.

CineFille · 03-30-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Lorelai is being an asshat towards a character that we LOVE -- we mostly love him more than Rory and I never use that WE that often -- and whose better than Lorelai. He's better. Yeah he has ****ed up, but he loves at 23/24 in ways Lorelai has never ever loved. She has no right to say anything. Unless he is abusive. Unless he is verbally abusive. She should shut her mouth and sit on her hands because Lorelai has made a mess of her life. Nice of her to do the same to Rory's. My take, however, turning Logan into a bad guy is bull****. I feel so touched by a male writer that only knows love in obsession. Which makes his romantic notion a bit sick and a bit twisted.

But we don't know that Lorelai says or does anything! The spoiler never says Lorelai mentions her concerns to Rory or to Logan, or that she takes any action at all. And if anything, the past year has shown Lorelai keeping her mouth shut about Rory's (love)life and letting Rory follow her own path.

I know you guys are upset, (and again, you have every reason to be, but to blame Lorelai when there's no evidence she has anything to do with the break-up is just completely unreasonable.

ETA: smashingly sweet, I have no explanation for what causes the break-up, because we have no confirmed infomation about it. As far as I can tell at the moment, it's simply because Logan sprung a huge-ass proposal on Rory when (as far as I can recall) they've never discussed marriage and she's just not ready. I admit that Rory hasn't had the best role model for relationships in Lorelai, but that has never seemed to affect her relationship with Logan.

MickeyJr3000 · 03-30-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katiediaz (View Post)

My first guess after the episode description came out is that they are going to actually try to do the opposite with him. They're going to show all of his flaws and defects, because, you know, Rory can't marry an irresponsible guy

.

Rolling in after getting all this news about R/L.

I really really REALLY hope they don't butcher Logan's character for the sake of breaking R/L up, as ASP did last year with Luke. It's one thing to briefly show a few of a character's character flaws creeping in, but it's another to take those character flaws and overdo it so much that the character becomes a characature of his old self with unnaturally exploding flaws in character.

My wish is that the R/L split happens amicably, with Rory being understanding, and Logan being understanding. I much rather have a breakup where there is no blame put on either party involved in it, than a breakup in which blame is put on both (or either) of the characters under the pretense that they do unforgiveable, irreversible behaviors to entise anger and disappointment in the other.

When L/R break up, I want it to be a kind break up. Which is why I am glad that (according to the spoilers), the director directed Matt and Rory to play the (most likely) break up scene showing a heartbreaking yet unscarring exit, rather than a scene with anger and rage. I'd like them to part kindly, after all, they've known eachother for 3 years, and they've loved eachother for 2 of those years...

Play nicely, DR. PLEASE play nicely. I don't want to have to put blame on you for butchering Amy's characters into making Rory unforgiveably rude and unkind, or for Logan to be butchered to become a total lazy partying slob. PLEASE. Though I think...I hope...that the news we are getting is signalling a pleasant (if there is such a thing) breakup rather than one that ruins the integrity of the characters.

Quote:

You're getting your happy ending, one way or the other.

We're only getting screwed, after three years of caring.

True, but you remember how outraged we were last year hearing of the L/L breakup. We (well, longtime fans of the show) were getting doubly screwed after six full years of caring. Doubly because they turned Lorelai into a tramp. Though now the scale's even for the Lorelais, I presume. They both break up with their long-term bfs who are great catches. And they sleep with ex's under the most inappropriate circumstances.

MY opinion, is that I respect if the end of R/L's relationship (

) occurs because Rory doesn't want to get married now, and Logan sees that as a huge rejection of him. Though he may have made mistakes in the past year, he's also been really good to her. And while it's perfectly okay (and normal) if Rory decides she doesn't want to get married at this point in her life, be it because she wants to focus on upstarting her career, or because she's not ready for the commitment marriage brings, I just want it to be expressed that they are not ending the relationship with regrets or anger, but appreciation, caring, whatever. If the two lovebirds have to say goodbye because Logan's going to work in San Franscisco and Rory in Chicago, and the implications of a long-distance relationship is stressful to either of them, then I fully support their decision to say goodbye. I presume they'll keep in touch somewhat. And who knows what would happen in 5 years from now if they meet again?

ETA: Just wanted to bring up my thoughts on Rory's "My Terms" business. I think it was understandable that she was upset with Logan for how he behaved for several weeks. I don't blame her for wanted to have HER say. For a while, I've felt like she was hanging onto Logan in an unhealthy way...I don't think she stood up for herself, especially when he was rude to her in ep 7.16 and the beginning of 7.17. At that time, Logan was playing on his terms and disappointed Rory many times, from when he told her that the business thing flopped (and he kept it from her for two months), to when he decided, on a whim, to go to Vegas with his buddies while ditching a baby shower that he KNEW Rory wanted him to be at, and he knew it was important to her. That was very selfish of him. I'm glad he got a bit of a taste of his own medicine. He can't play by his terms all the time either...

TheJSW · 03-30-2007, 05:24 PM

Lorelai always gets herself involved. Of course she says something to Rory. Yet, Cinefile, you seem to be missing some of our's collective point about Rory and Lorelai. Which is...EVERY **** BEHAVIOUR RORY HAS IN A RELATIONSHIP...comes from Lorelai. Again, they both suck in love, and I hope the show ends with Rory alone. Since it would very much be a moment where that dumb ****ing twit realizes this..."DOTH ENDTH THE LESSON." Be yourself. Not your controlling mother. ETA: Mickey stated; "I just want it to be expressed that they are not ending the relationship with regrets or anger, but appreciation, caring, whatever." Stephanie, no offense, but what kind of bollocks is that? Do you have no idea how a men work? No man on earth functions as you describing with that bull****. Yeah I am being crass and mean. BUT COME ON! Seriously, come on! SHE SAYS NO! When you SAY NO! IT'S OVER, JOHNNY! IT'S OVER! If anything, Logan should flip Rory the bird, and go find a woman who recipricates his love (because Rory Gilmore is such a jackass. She really had no idea why he would want to be only there with her. What a creep Rory Gilmore has become.) Who knew that Rory would be the cold heartless ******* in all of this? Ohhh...I DID...BECAUSE SHE GOT IT FROM HER MOTHER!

CineFille · 03-30-2007, 05:27 PM

Okay, this is clearly not the place (or at least not the time) for any kind of reasonable discussion.

It's been real, y'all.

TheJSW · 03-30-2007, 05:41 PM

Reasonable discussion? This is your argument; "LORELAI IS GOOD!" Sorry, she sucks, in terms of giving her daughter the tools to have a successful relationship. I think it says a lot about the character of Logan, that he can grow up with an infinitesimally less love than RORY. Yet, really, he's the one who understand loves more, than the girl with the BEST-FRIEND AWESOME CHICK AS A MOM!

So, no, there is no discussion to be had. When you are going to be a mark for Lorelai, and let her get away with all sorts of behaviour for whatever reasons Lorelai fans let her get away with ****. **** no other character on this show could ever get away with on the same scale. She ****ed a guy an hour or two after leaving her fiance. Yeah, she has a right to tell anyone that someone is irresponsible. What a total jerkface.

catkirk7 · 03-30-2007, 05:46 PM

Cinefille, I can see why you've been banned multiple times at TWOP. This is the RL thread, it is a shipper thread, and you are being very disrespectful. Just because you are among those who sees Lorelai as always beating Rory in everything, doesn't give you the right to come to this thread and tell us that we're not allowed to be upset at what appears to be the beginning of the destruction of a character that we love. Half the point of this thread is loving Logan, and at this point, in my case, 99 percent of it is loving Logan.

We're annoyed with Lorelai right now because it seems like she is the beginning of the end of our ship. The LL fans still despise Emily for inviting Christopher to the vow renewal when, in actuality, what broke up LL then was Luke's insecurity and Lorelai's secret-keeping and they were never going to stay apart. Lorelai has always been shown to have an effect on Rory. They're unhealthily close, and Lorelai's opinion matters to Rory a lot. It was Lorelai's letter that was the final push for Rory to give Logan another chance in JLGG. She may have dated guys Lorelai disapproves of, but I don't think she would marry one. Lorelai definitely has a history of influencing major decisions in Rory's life. If Lorelai hadn't gotten over herself in S3 Rory wouldn't have gone to her first choice school. She was pushing Rory to go to interviews close to home in GGO. Rory's entire life plan was based on Lorelai. Even if Lorelai does these things in jest, it adds up and has an effect on Rory who has always been a people pleaser. Considering the one time she did something big that her mother disapproved of, she was completely cut off, it's easy to see why she's afraid of going against her.

Lorelai is a self-centered person. She made a four-year-old wait for Christmas. And then she got mad because Rory celebrated with Logan. She needs to start putting her daughter's needs instead of her own unhealthy dependence.

As a side note, after last year, Lorelai should have pointed out in GGO that successful relationships are conducted on one person or the other's "terms." That kind of attitude already bit her in the ass.