Spoilers - The Flash S&S #20: "The future? With a name like Eobard, I guess you'd have to be." - Page 5

Leelala · 05-10-2015, 09:17 PM

I don't think their relationships will just alter, i think if Barry saves his mother, that Joe or Iris will literally die therefore he can't save his mother or at least he'll make a heartbreaking decision not to.

SydneyO · 05-10-2015, 09:53 PM

Weren't Barry and Iris friends before his mother died? I don't understand how Barry saving his mom would change that. I can see them not being as close as now because they wouldn't have grown up together and especially not as close with Joe, but Iris would still be part of his life.

ParsD · 05-10-2015, 11:42 PM

Cisco lived so Mason died so I think likely one person has to die for Nora to live. Joe? Or Henry. But no way is Iris gonna die. Their romance should transcend time and I expect the writers are gonna hold true to "there wouldn't be a Flash without you." where Iris/Barry is as inevitable as Barry becoming Flash.

^IA, but without Barry making them a family, Iris is gonna have a very different life and maybe she'd be colder/snappier than the sunshine princess she is rn.

scarletspuffyfan · 05-11-2015, 12:38 AM

by the way, did Joe legally adopt Barry when he was a kid? is becoming his legal guardian the same thing as adoption? i was wondering that when he referred to himself as his adopted father in that one episode

Jade4813 · 05-11-2015, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarletspuffyfan (View Post)

by the way, did Joe legally adopt Barry when he was a kid? is becoming his legal guardian the same thing as adoption? i was wondering that when he referred to himself as his adopted father in that one episode

No, legal guardianship is not the same as adoption. It gives you the right to make certain decisions on behalf of the child (medical care, education, etc), but it doesn't make you the child's parent under the law or remove the parent's rights to request the return of the child down the line. Whereas adoption severs the parents' rights and makes the adoptive parents the child's parents under the law.

If you've ever seen cases where a child was left with a grandparent for a couple of years, for example, but the parents remained in the child's life (perhaps they were too young to care for the child), the grandparent is usually given a guardianship in that case (unless the parent abandons the child and doesn't even see or talk to the child for years). But they don't adopt a child. When the parents get into a situation where they feel they can care for the child and would like the child returned to them, a hearing is held at which the judge determines the best place for the child. So it is important to note that a legal guardianship is not necessarily severed upon the request of the natural parent if continued guardianship is in the child's best interests. But it is quite different than adoption.

Adoption makes the parent the child's parent under the law. Guardianship only gives the Guardian the ability to make certain important or necessary decisions so that the child can be properly cared for but does not grant full parenting status. If the guardian wants to move to another state and the parents would no longer have access to the child or a meaningful relationship due to the distance, the court has the authority to transfer guardianship to a third party because the child's right to a relationship with his parents may prevail. The court can also order child support be paid to the guardian by the biological parents (and parenting time granted to the biological parents), in recognition of their remaining duty to support and care for the child. No such duty or right exists with adoption.

Make sense?

Tl;dr: No. With a guardianship, Joe might have had to return Barry to Henry if Henry had been released when Barry was, say, 14. Henry would still have legally been Barry's father. With adoption, Joe would have legally been Barry's father and no duty to have to return Barry (or even determine if it would be in Barry's best interests to be with Joe) would have remained. Henry's parental rights and obligations would have been totally severed.

Bree347 · 05-11-2015, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Will we get a definitive answer on Reverse-Flash's master plan in these final two?

Absolutely. We're not looking to shortchange people. People have been aboard the ride and that lug is going down the funnel.

Doesn't Eobard have an interest in keeping Eddie safe, since they are relatives?

They are both Thawnes and we are going to address that, but I also caution people. We can introduce Harrison Wells early on as a foil to Thawne, which we did in episode one. We're not above changing storylines here and there. I wouldn't read too much into the fact that they are both Thawnes.

So it doesn't mean he's a direct descendant?

In the episode we just did, we did talk about the bloodline. And I think it's important to note we share a bloodline. When it comes to the unveiling of the Thawnes, it's significant that I'm a Thawne and he's a Thawne.

We've seen Reverse-Flash low on power. Is that something that comes into play in these last two?

It's one of the biggest story points in terms of the characters. If things were it status quo for the Reverse-Flash for his speed and for his powers, he wouldn't have a secret vault at STAR Labs where he's interacting with Gideon, formulating a backup plan. He's been stranded here for 15 years. He's been using the wealth of his mental ammunition to plot what happens in the next few episodes. The reason he has to do that, is because he's had to come up to a solution for this occasional lack of juice.

At the end of last week's episode, he seems very sure of what his next moves are.

It's not without curves or pitfalls as any good superhero show will take you. And in the next episode we have that in spades with the confrontation between Flash, Firestorm and Reverse-Flash.

Reverse-Flash is so powerful. Even with Arrow and Firestorm helping out, is it a fair fight?

Three against one doesn't seem that fair. But he is powerful. Thank God it wasn't a handsome-off. Because they are so damned good looking, these three guys. I would say its a good matchup. And you will see.

'The Flash': Will Reverse-Flash Questions Linger After Finale? - The Hollywood Reporter

Leelala · 05-11-2015, 03:58 PM

Thanks for the interview…

I don't know but the answers to the E/E questions make me hesitant that Eddie will turn down a dark path at all…. Maybe Eddie will actually remain as much an enemy to Eobard as the rest of them and even try harder to force his relationship with Iris… ??

I'm lost again

ParsD · 05-11-2015, 04:45 PM

Oh, Tom. You'd win the handsome off by a landslide. And lol at him forgetting Oliver.

^If Eddie isn't primed to turn evil, he'll probably die (and get replaced by Malcolm). I can't see any other use for him.

Bree347 · 05-11-2015, 04:48 PM

Lmaoooo I totally missed that. Love him even more for it.

scarletspuffyfan · 05-11-2015, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParsD (View Post)

Oh, Tom. You'd win the handsome off by a landslide. And lol at him forgetting Oliver.

^If Eddie isn't primed to turn evil, he'll probably die (and get replaced by Malcolm). I can't see any other use for him.

I think I'd rather see him dead, than force him to stick around, tbh. i get the feeling he's going to turn bad, and that's something that's going to be dragged into season 2, which really frustrates me, because we've already had to sit through this horribly boring relationship with him and Iris for way, way too long, imo.

it's way past time to get rid of that relationship, cause it's a total drag on the show. if she can just ditch Eddie she can become a part of the Star Labs gang somehow (as a reporter I assume) and they can actually put her to use on the show as Barry's lightning rod and constant partner, like she's supposed to be.

scorpio_chick · 05-11-2015, 04:53 PM

Lol. Yeah. Very hard to tell where they may be going with Eddie. Next episode should give us more insight.

scorpio_chick · 05-11-2015, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarletspuffyfan (View Post)

I think I'd rather see him dead, than force him to stick around, tbh. i get the feeling he's going to turn bad, and that's something that's going to be dragged into season 2, which really frustrates me, because we've already had to sit through this horribly boring relationship with him and Iris for way, way too long, imo.

it's way past time to get rid of that relationship, cause it's a total drag on the show. if she can just ditch Eddie she can become a part of the Star Labs gang somehow (as a reporter I assume) and they can actually put her to use on the show as Barry's lightning rod and constant partner, like she's supposed to be.

I don't think Eddie/Iris should go on beyond this season but I'm not sure how Eddie is stopping her from becoming a part of the SL team? She can be with him, help out the team and be Barry's lightning rod/anchor...the writers just showed us that, after all.

Leelala · 05-11-2015, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpio_chick (View Post)

Lol. Yeah. Very hard to tell where they may be going with Eddie. Next episode should give us more insight.

RIGHT!!

I mean I think I'm getting somewhere with a theory and then an interview comes out and i'm like NOPE

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParsD (View Post)

Oh, Tom. You'd win the handsome off by a landslide. And lol at him forgetting Oliver.

^If Eddie isn't primed to turn evil, he'll probably die (and get replaced by Malcolm). I can't see any other use for him.

That was soooooo funny! even the actors knows no one cares for Arrow over here

Seriously though, Tom is so fine!! But after last episode with Barry on the rooftop, he's totally entered my list of 5!!

Bree347 · 05-11-2015, 06:22 PM

Quote:

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: What can you tease for the big showdown between The Flash and the Reverse Flash in Tuesday’s episode?

TOM CAVANAGH: I can say that I’m glad with Stephen and Robbie Amell and Grant Gustin versus me that it’s not a handsome-off, because that would be a very quick defeat on my part. That’s a very good-looking trio there. As it is, I can say we’ve invested 20 hours+ in the bank and now we’re taking it out. We understand that there is going to be a lot of expectation and anticipation. We spent a lot of time doing this face-off. We understand that when you have gunslingers facing off against each other, you don’t do that at the beginning of the show, you do that at the end of the show. We put a lot of work, choreography and man hours into the fight. It ended up being really enjoyable. Not to put words in the viewers’ mouths, but I hope they’re as pleased as we are.

Given that the Reverse Flash has super speed, are Firestorm and the Arrow still formidable foes?

Absolutely. We already have super speed versus me. They’ve got different things. All of their powers play in crucial fashion and in exactly the way Barry couldn’t do on his own. In collaboration with one another, as a three-headed monster, it makes them formidable.

What does Wells ultimately want with Eddie (Rick Cosnett)?

Essentially, he has a plan for everything, which I think is a common mistake that people have made in undervaluing how much he’s thought through every time they try and put Wells in a corner. From Mason Bridge to Joe to Cisco, when they think they have him figured out or cornered, he’s a couple chess moves ahead of them. This is one more chess move in a long string of chess moves that he spent 15 years figuring out.

Wells is back in the particle accelerator, so how will he use that to his advantage?

It’s great. That’s one of my favorite things about it. I’ve spent 20+ episodes saying, “The night the particle accelerator exploded…” It’s become a mantra. To actually have it become a living, breathing character essentially, as we march up the crest to our season finale, is a stroke of genius. I love the fact that the machinery and the technology that we’re using is the same in episode 23 as it is in episode 1.

Even if the Reverse Flash is able to get home, won’t that prevent him from killing Barry? Is he faced with a choice?

That question is one that you’ll get answers to. When Grant and I were reading it, we were looking at each other like, “Oh, dude!” It doesn’t come with the obvious answer initially, but ends up answering all of that stuff in very active fashion. I like it when you think something is going to happen and something else happens. We have, in the next two episodes, a whole lot of that for the audience to digest.

There’s been a question as to whether a part of Wells still resides within him. Is there a part of Eobard, who has invested so much time in this team, that actually cares about them?

It’s a great consideration. If we’ve been paying attention, he’s not just twirling his mustache in villainous fashion. He has legitimate affection and fondness for these people. That gets addressed in an upcoming episode. All along the way, they’ve been together shepherding Eobard’s goal along—unwittingly on their part, but necessarily. They’ve been instrumental, helpful and great and encountered a massive amount of danger along the way and fought through it together, with Wells by their side leading the charge. They’ve accomplished so much together. That is not lost on Wells.

The logline for the finale says that Wells presents Barry with a life-changing choice. What can you tease?

Barry has learned a little bit, over the course of the last five or six episodes, about how messing with time is dangerous. I don’t think anybody knows that better than Eobard, who has come from another time far, far away. Essentially, Eobard is much more knowledgeable about Barry. There are huge risks involved. We’re trying to ramp up the risk factor to an intolerable degree. I hope very much that we’ve succeeded, because while we were doing it, it was very gratifying.

The Flash: Will Reverse Flash sacrifice his mission to get home? | EW.com

Quote:

CBR News: This last batch of episodes must have been fun because you got to really reveal who this guy is.

Tom Cavanaugh: Yeah, it's great. It's been exceptionally enjoyable because it's the reason I signed on to do the show. When it's Eobard on the screen, you're basically seeing the most honest version of the character I've been playing all season long. This is who he really is, and that character, Eobard Thawne, has been the starting point for everything I've done. I've been undercover as Harrison Wells or when I've been the pre-taking over the Harrison Wells [identity] -- all of those things have been as their starting point Eobard Thawne. So, to get to do it, if you watch it the way we're trying to deliver it, there's a real enjoyment here, and that's because he is who he is. He's not hiding anymore. It's not an act. It's like, "Okay, here we go." It's freeing to be Eobard. It's really enjoyable to play.

I feel like the characters as well as the audience are in shock and mourning the loss of the Harrison Wells they knew. Do you miss Wells at all?

Playing Harrison is still a part of what I do. It's like, that's the clinical, scientific, smartest guy in the room part of the persona, and the other stuff that you see with Eobard Thawne was very much undercover. It doesn't mean that the science, smart aspect is now gone. It just means that the other one is allowed to flourish. So no, I don't miss Harrison Wells. [Laughs] I really enjoy playing Eobard, The Reverse-Flash was the reason I decided to do the show, and Eobard has been my starting point for everything I've done character wise up to this point. It's clean and simple, and it's fun to do right now.

When Matt Letscher was brought in as the original form of Eobard Thawne, did you have conversations with him to create a throughline between your performances?

Yeah, absolutely, and I think if you watch Matt's performance, you can see it. We definitely got together -- I know Matt, we worked together before on another Berlanti/Kreisberg show. Matt's tremendous, and Matt was very much into the idea of having -- he was like, "How do you see this scene? How do I see the scene?" And we would put our heads together and confer. I think it shows up in his performances. Eobard is someone who's using his persona -- he's two, three steps ahead, so he's not one of those guys who flailing and screaming and shouting. He's under control. I thought Matt brought that control, and when I play it, that's in my head. It's one of the governing attitudes that Reverse-Flash has, that control and that intelligence. I think Matt did a tremendous job putting that on screen.

Through that genetic camouflage situation, did any of the good of the real Harrison Wells seep over to Thawne, or is he just that good a liar?

Well, I don't think that anything seeped over. I honestly never really approached it -- certainly, he's covering up some things, but in terms of lying, if they're lies, they're lies of omission, because Eobard has this simple, single goal: to get home. He's stranded here, and been stranded here for 15 years. He doesn't have the juice he needs to get home, so what does he have to do? He has to create the juice, use that speed force. How does he do that? He creates The Flash -- that's Barry Allen. And the other people, Cisco, Caitlin, they're all shepherding this goal along with him. He had genuine affection for them because there are obstacles and conflicts that they encounter along the way that will obstruct him getting what he wants. And the team, together, will become those obstacles. And they do it together.

Along the way, they bond. Their personalities are revealed, and he's an intelligent person: I think he sees these people for what they're worth. And so, if anything were to happen to Barry Allen, Eobard's plan would explode. His genuine concern, vested interest in Barry's well being and Barry's improvement as the Flash -- he has genuine appreciation for Caitlin's ability to protect Barry Allen, genuine appreciation for Cisco's ability to build the technology that's going to help him achieve his dream.

All those things -- we'll see it in an upcoming episode, where it's not a lie to say that he's grateful to them and has tried to help them as best he can, and improve their lives. It makes him not a straight villain, and it makes it enjoyable to play it. It adds layers to it, because if he was just lying and said, "Ha ha, I'm not going to tell these people! I'm just going to use them." It would be much less complicated. To allow him to have affection for Cisco and to appreciate Caitlin and to want to protect Barry, it makes it that much more measured and much more of a fracture. We still have to split ways in order to get home. He is, above all, a guy just trying to get home.

It's been fascinating to watch you play all those different shades. Tell me about literally being in the yellow suit and doing those scenes with Grant.

Well, that's the most fun. That is the reason I signed on to do this show. Putting on a suit, when you're doing a superhero show, and you're putting on a suit in 2015 which has been put together by such incredible craftsmen and craftswomen in the costume department, it's like, this is not the spandex of yore. [Laughs] That just is just so much fun. Both Grant and I, I would say, really appreciate the physical aspect of it. He's excellent at it, in my opinion. I love doing it as well. But if you kind of enjoy that kind of thing, that physical part of it, essentially, what you have is sanctioned and paid play. And I find it to be tremendously gratifying and overt fun.

I feel like every actor should have a shot, if you like that kind of thing, at doing a Marvel movie or DC show or one of those superhero things where they get to put on a cape and fly around a bit. I think everyone should experience that pleasure, because it's really -- it's a tremendous ride.

We're in the home stretch of Season One -- what do you want to put out there to tease what's around the corner for the show's audience?

I don't really want to put anything out there! I think that they're doing it themselves, that I've noticed. I think we, as cast members, find that gratifying, humbling, all these people who understand the show as much as we do and are so interested in finding out the fates of these characters week to week. The reason that we get to keep doing it -- and, as you know in the world of television, more often than not, that is not promised to you, and you don't get to keep telling the stories. And so to be in the smaller percentage to keep telling the story, and the fact that it's this story, the story of The Flash, we're just grateful. I think we put a lot of thought and a lot of effort into the next couple of episodes knowing that we want to present the audience with this gift. We feel like we've gone out and got a really good one. I think we're really eager to hand it over and have them unwrap it.

For you, what's been the most unexpected or intriguing part of this experience?

I think one of the more surprising aspects of it is how welcoming the most avid fans have been, rather than, let's say, finding reasons to be divisive because liberties that we might have taken. For me, Harrison Wells is kind of an introduction, a new character, and yet that was not met with like, "Wait a minute! This isn't in the mythology!" I feel like they've been welcoming and receptive. I think they seem to understand that the more we start telling these kinds of stories, hopefully, the more will be out there. It makes for good business for all who are fans of it.

And then, on top of that, I feel like I've been surprised at the demographics of the viewership. I think that initially going into it, I thought we would reach a much smaller demographic than we have, but on the streets -- Jesse and I were talking about this yesterday. We both live in New York -- and on the streets, the people that come up to you nowadays, it's just essentially a cross-section of a subway car. It's all walks of life. It's impressive. It's elderly and young. It's mothers and fathers and sons and daughters, all together, kind of watching this thing. And I don't know that I necessarily expected that, in terms of the demography of that. I didn't think it would be that wide a reach. That's been surprising and pleasant.

One thing that was interesting was how great you established chemistry with Grant and the S.T.A.R. Labs team, and then got to flip it on its head with the reveal.

Well, I think we all knew where it was headed -- or at least, I did. We were always on that track, always looking forward to get there. Because, leaving myself out of it early on, we really had to add a bit of a pace. This comes from having done like three shows with Greg, and the other two shows were not as long lasting as we would have hoped -- that's just the nature of television.

"The Flash" is dear to Geoff Johns, Andrew Kreisberg, Greg Berlanti -- The Flash is really dear to them. I'm not talking professionally -- I'm talking personally. This is a story that they really want to tell, with the understanding that you might not get a lot of chance to tell too much of the story because in television, things get cancelled, etc. They're like, look: if we're getting one season of this, or 13 episodes of this, then we're going to tell a story we're going to be proud of, even if it's only just 13. So we came out of the gate in a reveal rush with our conception pilot.

Then early, after Captain Cold, there's all these people [on the show], and I said to Berlanti, after [Episode] Seven, "Um, are we at all worried about story?" And Greg goes, "There's always more story." One of the nice options of that is we're not -- oftentimes in television, when you do a pilot, and the pilot is successful so then you have to go to the next one and repeat when you did in the pilot, and there's been no interest in that. It's like we're moving forward in leaps and bounds.

In Episode Two, Harrison Wells kills a guy. In Episode Nine, he reveals the man in the yellow suit, just like that. Episode Eleven is "Who is Harrison Wells?" We're trying to find out what's going on. And Episode Fifteen, Barry tells Iris who he is. I stand up in front of Caitlin and reveal Harrison Wells and walk. I kill Cisco. Barry saves the town from a tidal wave. It's like, "What's going on?" And that's one of the great things about doing this genre, what it can allow you to do. You don't need to have a massive amount of backstory to bring a guy in who can control the weather. We can just do it -- and we do. That's been a really, really, extremely gratifying way to do television.

We don't take things too seriously. We try to get as much story out [as possible]. We get a lot of it out, so that when people sign on for our hour of television, they're not going to be sitting there, bored. We're going to give them stuff. Like, last week's episode, to me -- I was watching the Grodd thing, and I mean, this is the stuff that used to be on the big screen. You couldn't do that. You couldn't pull a guy up out of the sewer and have him like lean in and say, "Grodd hate banana." You couldn't do that. And now, you can. We're benefactors of that technology in this digital age, and we're like trying to take advantage of all those effects and all the heart and comedy we can, all at once. We're trying to tell the story, because at some point, it's going to be taken away from us. We want to have done as good as job as we can while we've been given the opportunity.

"The Flash's" Tom Cavanagh Says, "It's Freeing to Be Eobard Thawne" - Comic Book Resources

Elektra · 05-11-2015, 07:01 PM

Maybe it's not as simple as just Joe and Iris being the reason Barry may decide not save his mom. 1) He has to save his younger self first (unless future!Flash did that already?), which will be a few seconds where RF can kill his mother, or 2) If he saves his mom, he may not become The Flash (or at least, it may have happened at a different time/under different circumstances), and all those people he's saved in the present will die. Being the hero that he is, he can't risk all those lives for one life, no matter how much it breaks his heart.

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Fan Forum > General Discussion > Spoilers > The Flash S&S #20: "The future? With a name like Eobard, I guess you'd have to be."