lethal candy

Did I say Gunn should die?

Gunn hasn't just made one mistake. He's been corrupted by greed and a need for more power. That greed has now lead to the death of Fred and do I think Gunn needs to take some responsbility for this "mistake"? Yeah, I do... even if he didn't know it was going to kill Fred, he should have given it more consideration than he did. But he didn't care.. he just wanted more power. If that's not a reason for Wesley to be a little angry with Gunn, what would it have to come to? Would Gunn have to be the one to physically hurt Fred before he deserved resentment from Wes?

JanineW

I think this deal that Angel made with Wolfram & Hart will end in the destruction of the Fang Gang, with one or two characters still alive by the end of the series. They'll probably get together for one last fight . . . but in the end, most of them, I think, will end up dead. Like the Knights of the Round Table.

It's interesting that although the original Scoobies all survived the BtVS series finale and ended up re-creating the WC, all four are no longer together. Season 4 had foretold their separation and it eventually happened . . . in a way.

lethal candy

Kinda wanted to ask a question of everybody in this thread? Do you see the deal with W&H as being something that Angel did? Or something that they, as a group, all decided to do?

JanineW

If that's not a reason for Wesley to be a little angry with Gunn, what would it have to come to?

Being angry and resentful toward Gunn is one thing . . . seeking revenge is another. And as Mutant Enemy has taught us, seeking revenge has a way of biting a person on the ass. Ask Willow, Giles and Wood.

Candygirl

Remain a couple??? They've never even gotten to be a couple yet!!!

Since I love Fred/Wes and hate Eve, these are good spoilers. Yay!

dayne

Eventhough, Angel was the one to pull the trigger on the deal, I think that they all chose to come to W&H. I mean, why else would they still be there? They all came to believe that they could use W&H to make things better in the world.

I think a smaller reason why Fred, Wes, Gunn and Lorne chose to come to W&H was to possibly make something more out of themselves. I mean, they are working for a large resourceful company now. It sounds superficial, but I think in a way they wanted to move up in terms of their careers and not have to work in that old hotel anymore.

Nab

I think it was a group thing. Angel wouldn't have made the deal with W&H if the others didn't agree. However, some of the others may have agreed, maybe. If they had all said no, they would all have been regretful, but I think they wouldn't have gone back.

So, anything bad that happens because they went to W&H can't really be blamed on Angel, because they all agreed.

JanineW

Apparently, our tastes do not run the same way. I like Eve and find Wes/Fred a bore. But . . . different strokes for different folks.


I just read the transcript for "Home". Angel had accepted the deal on everyone's behalf before any of them could state their final decision. Nor did he bother to inform the others that their memories of Connor would be swiped. Interesting.

[ 02-04-2004: Message edited JanineW ]

Jessica Jaye

I'm still broken-hearted about Cordy....

Sweet Southern Comfort

They all agreed as a whole to take the job at W&H. Granted, they only really agreed after Angel decided to take the position. But they did have doubts taking over and that has continued till the beginning of this season.

lethal candy

Interesting... Do you think Angel would have gone back on the deal if the others had protested? I personally think he would have...
As for Conner, gonna just rely on the old saying that Angel brought him into the world, I guess it was up to him to take him out..

Rebel'n'Spuffy

Tonights eppy was WONDERFUL. It was so much better then I was thought it would be.

CC was great, as always. I was only somewhat spoiled for this eppy and I was totally knocked off my feet at the very end when Angel found out that Cordy had been in a coma all along, and that she was in fact not there.

(Makes me wonder how everyone else will feel when they find out that she had really been somesort of spirit... especially Spike who drank her blood)

Then it made sense to me. The girl that the boys went close to in the hospital (only to have Cordy herself pull the curtain) was in fact Cordy. After all, Cordy did say the girl was close to death. (Cryptic Joss... grrr) It also makes sense with how good Cordy looked after being in a Coma. She looked good because she was a spirit of kinds (like in "Birthday", cept corporial) and chose to show herself as she would like to be seen (I guess). I mean, wow. I was dreading this eppy, and I mean DREADING it. Now I wish I had recorded it. LOL. CC may have not gotten the longer end that I would have liked. But, I think that her death was quick and sudden. Which is what the death of a loved one feels like, no matter how long they may have been dying. It kinda gave the show a new perspective, at least to me. It reminded me that the characters, although strong, are frail and mortal, except Angel (in a 2d, Tv sort of way). I seriously hope that they bring CC back for a follow up eppy, maybe explaining a little bit more about how, and why she came back. And why, how, where she went.

Personally, I think Cordy was told by the PTB to put Angel in his place. Half duty, half reward for her services. She got one final goodbye, and what a goodbye! Cordy had a chance to make sure that the people she loved the most were going to be ok without her. I kind of hated how they (A/C) STILL tripped over te word love. LOVE. Get over it, it's a four letter word. *sigh*.

Other then that, I believe that Cordy's end sort of matched her persona. She was always abrupt, and to the point. She never took crap from anyone, and would always tell you how it was. This is exactly how her end was. It was to the point, putting people on their paths and telling them exactly how she felt. It was great, and simple. I can totally understand why CC boasted about it.

All in all, I am a very surprised, but happy fan. LOL.

Kelie

Nab

I could not agree more, Kelie. While the ending did piss me off a little, I think I'll be okay. Meanwhile, my thoery about about Cordelia seems to have been right and I am glad about that. I'm glad she got to make Angel get back on track and that she got to say good-bye.

calcium_yeah

That's a good point about Cordelia pulling that curtain in front of the (her?) body.

In contrast to the above 2 posters I actually understand even more now why some people were so upset about her possible death. It looked like so many movies & shows I've seen before where we find out the person who we've been watching is actually dead. But, I'll talk about that in the episode discussion.
I really hope the Fred situation is exaggerated now unless they're planning on making this a particularly harsh season in which case I say go all out, bring the FG down as low as possible, but please leave them standing at the end.
And unlike many I like them at W&H because I like the comedic aspects and the location, while causing alot of conflict also provides a source of dark humor. Stress on the conflict though & I think it is the perfect locale to start a downward spiral for the entire gang.
Not looking forward to any Wes/Gunn conflict though. I happen to like them getting along.

[ 02-04-2004: Message edited calcium_yeah ]

Nab

About bringing the FG down, it does seem like they are trying to do that. Gunn is getting all into being a lawyer, Angel is questioning a lot of things, Fred is going to die, Wes is going to get darker, etc. While Spike, the complete anit-hero, is the one helping people. I think this season is going to get darker and finally force everyone to rethink a lot of things they have done and will do. It will be an intersting watch.