HarshBench

Maybe Rose marries Tim Merton. Lol. Or she's not getting married but it's a funeral or service for her mother. Of course her sister would be there.

Or really it doesn't have to be either. It could be her reconciling with her family from whom she was sort of estranged. Then she could go to India or to live with her sister and her absence would be explained.

After all she's still quite young

NikNak

She's pretty. Thanks for this link.

lipsticklullabies

Marrying Rose off would be an easy way to write her out and give her the opportunity to return. I'd be sure it was happening if they'd mentioned anything about a new love interest with her, but it's totally true that it could be someone we've already met. Actually Tim Grey might make sense too? I can't remember if he was only supposed to be around for a short time though. As long as she doesn't get stuck with Larry!

Phyllis Logan and Jim Carter were also filming at a church the other day, according to this. Let the spec begin on whether that's entirely unrelated to Rose and Isobel's possible weddings or not

New interview with Gareth Neame, but the spoilers are very vague (and the title's baity as well, as he says little either way about the suitor question): ‘Downton Abbey’ Season 5 Spoilers — Mary & Tony’s Wedding Coming? | TVLine

northboundtrain

Thanks for that! I thought it was interesting that he said Tony "certainly seems to have the upper hand," because I know some came away from the CS with the impression that he'd suddenly turned into an underdog thanks to the reveal that Charles was the wealthier of the two. As a Charles fan, I like him as the underdog. It also fits with the early filming pictures of Mary/Tony looking like quite the couple, even though JO was filming during that time and therefore Charles was still presumably around. Maybe Mary will initially choose Tony and then come to realize she made a mistake.

I also really love what GN said about how he envisions ending the series.

And that's interesting about S5 opening with the socialist government coming to power and what that means for the Crawleys. Should make for plenty of tension between Tom and the rest of the family.

HarshBench

JO has been quite busy with some theater project the past few weeks (and for the next couple of months), leading to speculation that he's out of the picture. He has a lead role, and rehearsals and almost-daily performances would be time-consuming.

But I'm not entirely convinced he's gone.

The possible nuptials for Isobel would be in 5.02, when the extra said she played a wedding guest. The Carson/Hughes scene was filmed yesterday, so it's for the CS.

The speculation about Rose getting married is due to her sister and brother-in-law being in 5.08, and the fact that the actress is leaving.

So it looks like we are speculating about three weddings! LOL. I would find it odd if we got that many, especially considering none of them would be Mary's. Tom I guess is a possibility for 5.02 but since he and Daisy Lewis filmed a (very obvious) good-bye scene for 5.03 or 5.04, it seems clear such a wedding would not happen.

So my best guess is Isobel for 5.02, which would explain Lord Merton AND his sons being around. After that it's anybody's guess.

lipsticklullabies

Yeah, three weddings seemed like a lot so I automatically thought it may have been connected, but I completely forgot the fact that they'd all be in different episodes! Three is a lot even for Downton, unless Carson and Hughes are in the church for something completely unrelated.

Also, spoilers starting to trickle in from the TCA panel that's happening right now. There's a live blog here! New scenes were shown (Mary/Charles conversation, Edith and Drewe with her daughter who is apparently called Marigold, Branson and Sarah had dinner apparently, Bates promising no one will hurt Anna again), series 5 starts six months after series 4, Paul Giamatti and Shirley MacLaine will not be back in s5 although the door is open for them to return, Lady Anstruther (Anna Chancellor) will be a bit of a troublemaker, and Richard E. Grant's character is on the hunt for something.

ETA: There's a more detailed summary of the trailer here. They mention Rose having a suitor, so that supports the wedding theory.

northboundtrain

I'd read that he's been busy, but I'm holding out hope -- even if he wasn't able to film much or at all in the final episodes of this season, JF clearly intends to keep the show going, so it's possible that Charles could disappear only to reappear in S6 as Mary's final choice.

At least, I hope so. I really do think that he's the best match for Mary.

Speaking of which...


Thank you so much for that! I cannot wait to see this scene:

I love every bit of this. I said in my last post that I liked the idea of Charles as the underdog, and this makes it sound like he is -- like Mary's close to choosing Tony, and Charles has realized this is his last chance to make his case.

What really gets me, though, is that he's making good points. Is Tony stupid? No. But I think with S4 that JF was trying to show that, of the three suitors, Charles was the one who could best match wits with Mary.

And we also know Charles is right about the way things are changing -- that women of the 1920s no longer had to hide their brains. It sounds like whatever Charles has seen between Mary and Tony up to this point has given him the impression that their marriage wouldn't be happy because Mary wouldn't feel like she could truly be herself.

Then I also saw this in the HitFix article:

That's more fuel for my earlier speculation that Mary may initially choose one man and then realize she really wants/loves the other.

As for the rest of it, I'm interested in seeing Bates/Anna pick up the pieces and the stuff about the man from Violet's past. I'm sad there wasn't mention of Thomas -- I'm still hoping for him to find love.

lipsticklullabies

You're very welcome! I really like that Charles quote as well. I don't have much of a preference between the suitors right now but that made me pull for him a little more, because anyone who encourages Mary to not hide her wits is great by me. Charles being the underdog was an interesting thought to me as well, because I thought the CS really flipped their positions by revealing Charles as heir to a wealthy estate and Tony holding a title with little money attached. It would make sense if Tony gets the edge going in, making Charles the underdog. I'm really interested to see how this all shakes out!

Plus I'm ridiculously stoked for Anna Chancellor's character to cause trouble. But I adore her so she could be silently sitting in the corner drinking tea and I'd be thrilled.

ClaireK80

I've read many recaps of the TCA panel and I'm quite excited about the new season right now.

- I think Rose getting married in episode 8 is a good guess. We know she has a new suitor and a wedding would be a nice way to end the regular season; also it would allow Lily James to leave the show but eventually return for a couple of episodes here and there.
- I'm not so sure anymore about Isobel getting married to Merton in episode 2. If in the first episode she's still so doubtful ("he wants something from me I cannot give"), is it possible that she changes her mind and they are married by episode 2? it seems a bit too soon....
- Re: the CS churchyard scene, IDK, I doubt it has anything to do with a wedding, especially since only Carson and Mrs. Hughes (and maybe Bates?) were there.
- Mary/Charles vs Mary/Tony: from many things they've said, now I think she chooses Tony at the beginning and then changes her mind and chooses Blake instead. Or will it be the other way around?
- I wonder how long Edith's secret will last.... but maybe she will indeed find a way to take Marigold with her at Downton without telling everybody that she's her daughter?
- so it seems Jimmy was really Lady Anstruther's lover? I always thought he was just being a braggart when he implied he had a particular "connection" with her...
- nothing about Thomas, but we know he has this storyline with Baxter right?
- they said Shirley MacLaine and Paul Giamatti are not in Season 5, but could return in the future. Hmmm... so if neither of them are dead, which is the shocking twist that made Allen Leech sad?

Madani

Am I the only one who wants Mary with Tom?

Andorra

Interesting news!

My take on it:

Most important: Tom

He's looking for love and we know he won't end up with Sarah Bunting. So the Robert/Tom scene is symptomatic for his storyarc in the first episodes IMO. He's thinking about moving his relationship with her forward, but he's not in love with her. I like that he has a conversation with Robert about her. I really want Robert and Tom to have a more father/son relationship.

At some point she will ask him to chose between her and the family I think and he will chose the family. She will leave and that was the goodbye scene we saw in the rain.

So he's looking for love but not with Sarah Bunting? Who will it be? We know Sarah Bunting will leave in 5.03 or 5.04 the latest. she is definitely not in the last 3 episodes, because she has been away from London since May and said she willl film until September. Rose will have a "new man" and they (again) ruled out "Brary". That would leave Edith, but I seriously doubt that. And didn't they also say that there will be no romance between the "in - laws"? That would rule out Edith, too.

Are we right with our theory that they will bring back Madeline Allsop for Tom? I would SOOOO love that! Poppy Drayton has been completely quiet about her work on twitter, but her schedule, her being in London, her followings and followers speak very much for her return. She has followed and has been followed by many actors and crew members of Downton in the last months. Long after she filmed the CS last year. Why following Tom Cullen suddenly for example? On a day when they filmed at Highclere? And he followed the same day. Or why following Chris Croucher on the day of the reading for Episode 3 and 4? And him following back? Just coincidence? I think not.

Also Allen and Poppy have followed each other instantly on twitter last year although they never had a scene together. Allen was the first Downton related following she did. My theory is that they did a chemistry read together and therefor knew that there was something in the books for them in future seasons.

Now I think Madeline will be back and it is kept a secret, because people would suspect that she comes back for Tom. Rose's new beau hasn't been announced either for the same reason.

Edith

Oh I like Mr. Drewe! I'm sorry, but I think poor Mrs Drew will have to die and Edith should marry Mr. Drewe!

I'm really curious how her storyline will play out. I heard Michelle Dockery said that she thinks Mary wants Edith to be happy. So I really doubt that Mary will not be supportive.

I still think Tom will be the first to find out about "Marigold" (weird name, btw)


Mary

- I don't think Mary will end up with Blake. I think he's out of the last 2, maybe even 3 Episodes and I really, really doubt that the "one" won't be in the last episodes of the series. It doesn't make any sense. He definitely isn't in the CS.

- Also the fact that they're promoting the Blake relationship more in the trailer they showed speaks for Tony IMO. I think it will be Blake in the front in the first episodes and then it will change and Tony will win her in the end.

Sorry, Blake shippers, but that's how I see it. I don't care either way, she can chose whom she wants if it is for me, so I'm just stating this as an outside POV.

Isobel

I still think she will marry Lord Merton and her leaving is the sad thing Allen mentioned.

Daisy

One interesting point nobody mentioned: Daisy reading "The history of the Revolution"?? Are we completely on a wrong track and Daisy is going after the only revolutionary we have on the show? Daisy and Tom??

I really can't imagine that!

Lauren60

Some good stuff coming out of the TCA press tour panel. Of course it was rife with teasers more than real information but it supplies great fodder for S5 speculation. How fun!

It's no surprise that I zeroed in on anything related to Mary's storyline. The most substantial peek was provided through a scene with Mary and Charles. Of course I would have preferred a Mary/Tony scene but this Mary/Charles scene was interesting nonetheless.

I make no pretense that I'm not biased when it comes to who I want for Mary (see my icon ). With that said, here's my take...

The lead in to the quote from the scene is "Charles Blake makes a great play for Lady Mary". To me, not so much but I'm jumping ahead. Let's break this dialogue apart and take a look at it piece by piece:

This leads me to believe Mary told Charles that Tony makes her happy. This is a very positive sentiment for Mary to have towards Tony.

I think this indicates that at a minimum Mary is leaning towards Tony. Charles thinks he has to persuade Mary to think twice and be absolutely sure that Tony will make her happy. He must think things aren't going in his favor.

So Charles is saying don't pick Tony because you're smarter than he is? If you look at it another way Charles is claiming he is at least as smart as Mary and they are both smarter than Tony. That comes across a bit arrogant to me. It also doesn't reflect well on Charles that he has to put down Tony in order to look more favorably to Mary.

Charles assumes Tony wants Mary to squelch her intellect. There were no sign of this at all in S4. If anything, Tony went out of his way not to give Mary advice or help unless she wanted it. He respects her as an intelligent woman. I don't know why Charles thinks otherwise.

So overall I don't see this as Charles making a great play for Mary. In this short snipit of dialogue he's trying to appeal to her intellect. She should choose him because they are suited well intellectually. He's targeting Mary's brain not her heart. Of course we're not privy to everything he says to her so perhaps he makes an emotional plea as well. I hope so for Charles' sake because his argument so far barely registers on the romance scale. It was said that Mary is looking for love in S5 so she's definitely a romantic at heart.

Much to my chagrine, the battle has commenced in S5. I am already so tired of the "who will Mary choose" storyline. I can only hope it doesn't go too far into season five. Forget "Let battle commence". How about "Let season five commence"? The wait has been too long already!

ClaireK80

Re: Edith

I'm curious about that too, because MD also said that Mary is still quite nasty with Edith, especially in series 5. But I guess once Edith's secret is out, she will support her, apart from the usual banter?

BTW, I think Marigold was quite a common name back then. I'm not crazy about it though, TBH.


Generally speaking, all the spoilers about S5 seem pretty "light" so far. The most dramatic storyline is Edith suffering for her daughter; other "serious" storylines could be Bates and Anna keeping secrets from each other (but it seems he hasn't killed Greene after all) and the revealing of Baxter's secret.
But apart from that, we have Mary choosing between two suitors, Isober and Merton, Violet and this mysterious Russian prince, Rose and her new boyfriend, Jimmy and Lady Anstruther. Nothing as shocking or dramatic as the deaths in S3 or Anna's rape in S4.
It's also true the spoilers are generally about the first 2-3 episodes of the season... I wonder if something bigger will happen later.

Lauren60

The first thing I thought of is do they call her "Mari" for short. That would be ironic given Edith's and Mary's turbulent relationship.

northboundtrain

I love that he holds her mind in such high esteem. And given what you're saying here, I wonder if the clip was chosen for the purpose of firing up those who didn't necessarily have a preference before? He's making such a great case.


I remember several reviews at the same time thought the same thing. Which I was happy about at the time.

But more and more I've started to think that making him the underdog puts him in a better position to actually win in the end.


It's sounding like that's what's happening, what with GN's comments to TVLine and now the footage.

I also found this comment on Twitter from someone who was at the event:


I haven't seen her in much, but I'm intrigued by the idea that she's going to come shake things up. I'm hoping she has at least one scene with Thomas, given their respective connections to Jimmy.


I was thinking the same thing, that it could be the other way around (Mary choosing Charles first, regretting it, and going back to Tony). But I have a harder time imagining that scenario. JF has consistently framed Tony as the one Mary feels she should be with given her position in life. He's got the big important title, he's not tied to an estate anymore, they knew each other as children, their families are friends, her parents love him, he's "one of us," he worships her, and she's sexually attracted to him, to boot. The only thing he lacks is money, which Mary doesn't even need, so he's in the clear there.

I have a harder time imagining Mary choosing Charles first. I could see it if she needed his money, but she doesn't. The only thing Charles seems to have over Tony is that his quick wit is such a good match for Mary's, but if Mary thought that was more important than everything Tony is offering her, Charles wouldn't need to plead his case -- she would have picked him long ago.

So if Tony's the perfect guy on paper, it's easy to see a situation where Mary chooses him first and then comes to regret it later because of something that wasn't on the paper.

It also sounds from the recaps like Mary and Charles also have a debate about love versus sex. I wonder which man will be framed as which?


I'm not expecting it to last any longer than this season, because she seems like she's going to be tormented by it.

I do wonder who will find out first. I used to think it would be Tom, but now I'm wondering if it might be Mary. That would be unexpected, and it would allow for more tension between the sisters (I think one of the recaps said they'd be fighting more).


It's been awhile since I've watched those scenes, but I remember feeling like she'd used him as a boy-toy and then discarded him.