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Old 07-28-2014, 02:37 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauren60 (View Post)
I really appreciate your insights on the English aristocracy. I'm very interested in the choice Mary is facing between Tony and Charles. I take it Tony being a Lord trumps Charles' future baronetcy? If you don't mind, can you please explain what the difference in Mary's title and status would be depending on who she marries? Plus she's the mother of a future earl, does that come into play at all? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks!
Also if you're interested this is the order of rank of the British aristocracy hierarchy, starting from the lowest.

1, Hereditary Knighthood (Baronet)
Title would be Sir .... and Lady..... Children wouldn't have a title.
These are not actually peers of the realm, for example they can't sit in the House of
Lords.

2, Baron and Baroness
Title would be Right Honourable .... Baron ....
or Lord .... and Lady....
Children would be known as The Honourable Mr or Miss ....

3, Viscount and Viscountess
Title would be Right Honourable ..... Viscount ....
Children would be known as The Honourable.

4, Earl and Countess
Title would be Right Honourable ..... Earl of .....
Eldest son would take his father's lesser title, for example Robert's lesser title is
Viscount Downton, younger sons would be The Honourable. All daughters would be
Lady ....

5, Marquess and Marchioness
Title would be Most Honourable .... Marquess of .....
Eldest son would take father's lesser title, younger sons would be known as Lord .....
in the same way all daughters would be Lady .....

6, Duke and Duchess
Title would be His Grace .... The Duke of ....
Eldest son would take is father's lesser title, younger sons would be Lord .... and all
daughters would be Lady ....

If Mary married Tony she would be of a lower rank than her mother Cora, and she would take Tony's surname of Foyle as this would be her married name. For example When Lady Sybil Crawley married Tom she became Lady Sybil Branson.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:09 PM
  #167
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Very interesting discussion.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:57 PM
  #168
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LOL, this stuff doesn't really interest me in the abstract, but it takes on some meaning when applied to the characters on the show. That's what makes it interesting.

For example, the fact that Aysgrth is only a Baron (the bottom rung on the ladder of Peers of the Realm) and the Baronetcy itself is "lowly but old." He took care to point out that it was old, because that counts for something.

Or the fact that Mary will never be Countess or Dowager Countess, even though she owns much of the estate itself now. Unless her son dies and some other distant Crawley cousin emerges as heir and she marries him…but that's too far-fetched even for this show.

The pros and cons of Gillingham and Blake? Leaving aside their looks and personalities, which are both good enough I suppose, how do they measure up? Because let's get down to brass tacks: Mary cares a lot about that stuff.

Charles is going to be richer in land and presumably cash. He's aristocracy, but without a title. Their sons would have no titles, and their daughters would have to marry well to get them. In a couple of generations, their descendants would be mere "gentry" and eventually upper middle class like Matthew. Tony has a desirable title that would pass to an eldest son, and their other kids would be better positioned to keep their feet on the ladder. But his financial situation is precarious enough that he was going to marry Mabel for her cash infusion. The Viscountcy could eventually be a bankrupt one, conferring status but no estate or inherited wealth. Or source of income except….HORRORS!!!….working.

It all comes into play in this class system. Unless you're Sybil Crawley, in which case you don't care about it and would rather escape it.

Last edited by HarshBench; 07-28-2014 at 04:04 PM
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:34 PM
  #169
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Thank-you HarshBench and puffball7! I think what was confusing me was the use of "Lord" as in Lord Grantham and Lord Gillingham. That made me think they were at the same rank. I see that Robert is an Earl and Tony is only a Viscount, that's the difference. It's clearer now but I can see why they have to keep track of everyone in a book!

Thanks again!
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Old 07-29-2014, 04:37 AM
  #170
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According to this article ITV drama Downton Abbey is being filmed at Alnwick Castle - The Journal

is Downton filming in Alnwick Castle until August 8th!

So, as we predicted, in the CS the family will again be away from Downton. But where? Who might live in this castle? It's the second largest lived in Castle in England (after Windsor). It is really huge!

I doubt it can't be Tony Gillingham's house? Or Lord Merton's? It seems too large for both. And I also doubt it is Charles Blake's house, since the man himself is not able to film there due to his theater obligations.
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:51 AM
  #171
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Interesting... yesterday a guy tweeted that "half the cast" of Downton Abbey were in his train carriage heading to Edinburgh. He also tweeted a pic of him with Allen, Michelle, Laura and Lily.
https://twitter.com/jonnyawsum/statu...990400/photo/1

So I guess they were reaching Alnwick Castle to film there. I wonder if other actors travelled separately... still I guess it will be like the 2012 CS, with the family visiting some relatives / friends and the staff remaining at Downton.

Quote:
I doubt it can't be Tony Gillingham's house? Or Lord Merton's? It seems too large for both. And I also doubt it is Charles Blake's house, since the man himself is not able to film there due to his theater obligations.
Hmmm.... I don't know, maybe if Rose got married in episode 8, they're visiting her and her husband in the CS? And her husband is a rich aristocrat living in a very big castle?
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:04 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarshBench (View Post)
The pros and cons of Gillingham and Blake? Leaving aside their looks and personalities, which are both good enough I suppose, how do they measure up? Because let's get down to brass tacks: Mary cares a lot about that stuff.
Yes this title-thing will be very important to Mary. She already mentioned that in the last CS towards Tony. But who knows, maybe at the end only her heart decides.

And afterwards...well especially the 2nd world war changed a lot according to the position of the noble.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:02 PM
  #173
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According to this article ITV drama Downton Abbey is being filmed at Alnwick Castle - The Journal

is Downton filming in Alnwick Castle until August 8th!

So, as we predicted, in the CS the family will again be away from Downton. But where? Who might live in this castle? It's the second largest lived in Castle in England (after Windsor). It is really huge!

I doubt it can't be Tony Gillingham's house? Or Lord Merton's? It seems too large for both. And I also doubt it is Charles Blake's house, since the man himself is not able to film there due to his theater obligations.
You're right, Alnwick Castle is really big! I'm intrigued as to what they are filming there, it's the ancestral home of the Dukes of Northumberland. It doubled as Hogwarts in some of the Harry Potter films. It seems that most of the upstairs cast are there.

It says on their website there is limited public access from 28 July - 8 August due to filming.

Does anyone know roughly when the presspack might make an appearance?

Last edited by puffball7; 07-29-2014 at 02:09 PM
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:30 PM
  #174
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Does anyone know roughly when the presspack might make an appearance?
Unfortunately only around September 11th.

The trailer can be expected on August 30th.

So we have at least a month to wait until we know more!

Today we found out that Poppy Drayton started filming another movie this week. It doesn't mean she can't be in the CS, since we don't know how big her part in it is. Maybe she is able to do both, it wouldn't be the first time that one actor of the show manages to do two projects at once, but it is the first little setback in our "Madeline will be back" theory, I'm afraid.

And it reopens the question: Who in heaven could they have in store for Tom, if not Madeline Allsop??

Is it possible they leave him unattached yet ANOTHER series?? I find that hard to believe. Especially since Allen said Tom is looking for love. And Michelle said "They (Mary and Tom) are both keen on finding love, just not with each other."

Will he say goodbye to Sarah Bunting in Episode 3 or 4 and then just end the series without a love interest??
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Old 07-29-2014, 04:11 PM
  #175
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Unfortunately only around September 11th.

The trailer can be expected on August 30th.

So we have at least a month to wait until we know more!

Today we found out that Poppy Drayton started filming another movie this week. It doesn't mean she can't be in the CS, since we don't know how big her part in it is. Maybe she is able to do both, it wouldn't be the first time that one actor of the show manages to do two projects at once, but it is the first little setback in our "Madeline will be back" theory, I'm afraid.

And it reopens the question: Who in heaven could they have in store for Tom, if not Madeline Allsop??

Is it possible they leave him unattached yet ANOTHER series?? I find that hard to believe. Especially since Allen said Tom is looking for love. And Michelle said "They (Mary and Tom) are both keen on finding love, just not with each other."

Will he say goodbye to Sarah Bunting in Episode 3 or 4 and then just end the series without a love interest??

I find it hard to imagine a new love interest won't at least be introduced for Tom in S5. There is no reason to wait for the very last season to get it rolling, especially since it can always be dragged out in angsty fashion for a long time anyway. That's how they like to do it.

And we know Sarah leaves in 5.03 or 5.04, and that Tom is "looking for love." IMO if Allen said Tom is "keen to find love" then odds are he will at least meet someone who makes his heart pound during S5.

I'm disappointed about Poppy's other project but as you said, a lot of the actors have done other projects while filming the show. Hugh Bonneville did a big-budget Hollywood film during S4 filming, and only missed one episode. Allen Leech was in a play on the West End while filming S2 (as was Samantha Bond during the S4 CS filming), and Brendan Coyle and Sophie McShera have both spent time on other series during S5 filming.

Poppy's movie is a low-budget one with mostly unknown young actors. The production company's website even states that it specializes in "low-budget" projects. And she's filming in the UK, which means she could go back and forth a bit if necessary. Especially if she only appears in the CS briefly, like Gregson did in the S3 CS.

Most signs still point to her having been filming S5: she's steadily followed new Downton cast and crew members on twitter between February and May, and until now her schedule appears to have been open for filming the show from 5.03-5.08.

So IMO this project might interfere with CS filming, but it certainly doesn't preclude her from being in it at all. It's not like she'd be a main character (yet) anyway.

Actually it turns out Lily James is also filming another movie right now, with Bradley Cooper and Sienna Miller about a chef. I forget the name but they just started in London a couple of days ago and will be filming for a month. So that overlaps with the CS filming a lot. I don't think she has a very big role but she'll still have to juggle the two projects.

Last edited by HarshBench; 07-30-2014 at 10:17 AM
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:30 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andorra (View Post)
Unfortunately only around September 11th.

The trailer can be expected on August 30th.

So we have at least a month to wait until we know more!

Today we found out that Poppy Drayton started filming another movie this week. It doesn't mean she can't be in the CS, since we don't know how big her part in it is. Maybe she is able to do both, it wouldn't be the first time that one actor of the show manages to do two projects at once, but it is the first little setback in our "Madeline will be back" theory, I'm afraid.

And it reopens the question: Who in heaven could they have in store for Tom, if not Madeline Allsop??

Is it possible they leave him unattached yet ANOTHER series?? I find that hard to believe. Especially since Allen said Tom is looking for love. And Michelle said "They (Mary and Tom) are both keen on finding love, just not with each other."

Will he say goodbye to Sarah Bunting in Episode 3 or 4 and then just end the series without a love interest??
Mmm. Not such great news.

But, trying to stay positive, it does depend on how big her role is in the new thing she's filming and how time consuming it is, and how big her role is in the CS, if indeed she is back this series. I mean, as you've said she would still be a reoccurring guest character rather than a regular character anyway, plus other cast have managed to juggle two things at once. Also her part in the CS may only be small especially if the family are all decamping to Alnwick Castle for that episode.

Perhaps it will be a bit like Sybil and Tom in series 1 and 2 in that they will lay the foundation for a romance and will notice each other this series but the full on story won't start until series 6?

As long as Bunting doesn't make a sudden reappearance! I may lay down on my sitting room floor and weep on Christmas Day night. I'm still slightly paranoid about her character!
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:21 PM
  #177
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She's still in LA it appears!
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:13 PM
  #178
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As long as Bunting doesn't make a sudden reappearance! I may lay down on my sitting room floor and weep on Christmas Day night. I'm still slightly paranoid about her character!
No need to be afraid there. She is away from London since May. First she was in Romania and then she went straight to LA and has been there since. She only tweeted today!

So I'm not worried about her any more, she is definitely gone.

But who will be Tom's love interest? This a really interesting question. I still hope for Madeline. She would be perfect.
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:32 PM
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No need to be afraid there. She is away from London since May. First she was in Romania and then she went straight to LA and has been there since. She only tweeted today!

So I'm not worried about her any more, she is definitely gone.

But who will be Tom's love interest? This a really interesting question. I still hope for Madeline. She would be perfect.


Well, if it's not Madeline then it's either some new secret character….or I guess Rose?

But since it looks like Poppy Drayton was working on the show for at least part of S5 she seems like a likely candidate.
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:11 AM
  #180
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So, Evelyn might be back in the picture after all. He tweeted something about Edinburgh yesterday, which isn't *too* far from Alnwick Castle.

I agree that three's a crowd, but I'd far rather keep him around and lose the other two suitors. JMO.
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