GMikey

Sooooo... I'm in a Marvel RP group that is running a universe of our own, centered around various heroes such as, Adam Warlock, Captain America, Daredevil, Punisher, Thor and Loki... and of course, the X-Men. This soon became a MAJOR deal, after one of our high rankers said she wants to animate our RP! This is where things really turned to ****.

Whenever discussing the X-Men, there is the elephant in the room, known as, the Phoenix. In my group, we've been arguing for about three weeks on how we would handle the whole Phoenix Saga. There are those who HATE Jean Grey, and don't even want her in the X-Men line up, much less as Phoenix; then there are those who want the Phoenix but with a different non-Grey "one true host", and finally... the Jean Grey fans...

Last Saturday a competition was held to create and vote on a new Phoenix story, that the majority of us could agree on. Then came a totally different animator who proposed her ideas, and... albeit, ****ing AWESOME... there were some that ridiculed her story.

Before I share the plot we came up with, I'd like to know what would YOU ALL, as X-Men fans would do to fix the story that's been beaten over like a dead horse, and make it something that would appeal to everyone?

sum1

It doesn't need fixing. The last film was fine.

GMikey

*Sigh* so... the people in my group didn't like the Dark Phoenix movie... like at all, and many of the members in my group are "over with" Jean and the Phoenix story. However, everyone wants to either create a creative version of it for the RP, or leave it out entirely.

The primary idea that was proposed was to changed the "one true host" of the Phoenix to a non-Grey related X-Man or other Mutant. While most of us embraced that idea (as many in our group don't even like Jean to begin with), the Jean Grey fans fumed and threatened to leave the project.

A different idea then was proposed, and the admins accepted it, despite some Grey fans still disliking the new idea (which is stupid because the new idea KEEPS Jean as Phoenix, like... I thought that's what they wanted, but whatever...)

Before discussing what the new idea we accepted is, I wanted to know what "creative" idea would you all as hardcore comic fans would have wanted to see with the over done saga of the Phoenix... THAT'S the question...

wickedrum

it's not an idea, but personally I think every movie suffers when they have too many of the X-Men in it. Focus on a few and stay on their story, tell others' story in another movie.

GMikey

Oooookay... so, I'm actually talking about an RPG that we may turn into a fanmade series, however let's stick with it just being an RP. I'm not talking about the movies, the animated series, like that...

My question is, as comic buffs, what would you like to see done to rewrite the whole Phoenix story, and make it good again...

I'm asking this question, for the sake of coming up with a better story. Now... the RP group DID pick someone's story (an animator working on a fan collab Marvel anime), and I will say that in the X-Men story she created, the Phoenix Saga is cut short, and ONLY happens to introduce a (somewhat) new cosmic entity, and their cosmic adventures and journey of self. This being picks out one of the other X-Men, and the story then revolves around him on a cosmic hero scale. The idea is awesome, buuuuut...

But before we make a solid decision, I did want to ask actual comic fans, how would you all handle the Phoenix, and if your idea is to not really acknowledge the Phoenix, and focus on something different... that is kind of what happens in the choice we made so... yeah...

PhoenixRising

I see. So I guess it would all depend on who the "one true host" would be and how Jean Grey would fit into this. Would the Phoenix possess Jean and then move on to the one true host? I could go along with that, depending on who the host would be, but it would require a villain who would be the host.

GMikey

You're one of those popular kids on this forum

Let me post the full story that was chosen, so you can see the angle we decided on. See, the Jean Grey fans did NOT want someone non-Grey to be the new Phoenix host. However, plenty others wanted to see the Phoenix with an entirely new host, that is not at all connected to Jean. The decision made was a story that KEPT Jean as the Phoenix, BUT introduced, and centered around a new Cosmic Entity.

And while our latest decision isn't... 100% final, I'm just shopping around for more, potentially better answers from comic buffs with more knowledge than me...

CURRENT CHOSEN STORY, EXCERPT FROM FACEBOOK ANNOUNCEMENT

.... So Ms. Loki (fanime animator who came up with this story), who has her own Marvel groups and animated universe they are working on, offered that we create an adaptation of her story with the Phoenix, into our RP. Ms. Loki says she's no fan of Jean Grey's, simply due to "not being well developed". She changes her character quite a bit, a lot bit, and I must admit, from what she explained, I actually like this version of Jean Grey. Can't get into spoilers but, this version she presented seems very relatable and interesting, she's cool and a badass, and I really like her new personality and story.

The changes made to Jean Grey's character in Ms. Loki's multiverse (or whatever) offers a believable explanation to her and Phoenix's internal struggle, their mutual bond, and it offers something I don't think ANY of these comic writers have accomplished.

So yes I said it... Ms. Loki suggests to KEEP Jean Grey as the Phoenix... BUT... here comes a twist. And this twist is what I'll say won most everyone, and certainly won me. Sapphire wasn't happy at all with Ms. Loki's choice, until it was broken down.

After the Dark Phoenix, a new entity is arises, who uses one of the other X-Men as its vessel (I'm not gonna say who, but you all are welcomed to guess ^_^). This entity has a power set that Ms. Loki came up with, that makes it, insanely, chaotically, dynamically powerful. Ms. Loki describes it as "meta-power" and "unnaturally powerful". No cosmic power, including the Phoenix Force, is able to control or combat this being using their powers alone. This forces Jean as Phoenix to get really creative with how she combats this strange entity. I freaking love the powers Ms. Loki came up with, and the mechanics of how they work, like... I've never heard of such a power set used like this, or look like her concept art for the cosmic being and its display of power. Ms. Loki is just as scientific, into mystics, astrobiology, math and **** as Sapphire, and that makes her concept all the better.

This cosmic creature (let's call it Entity) has a strange, unknown mission and origin that no one understands, except a shady intergalactic cult that seem to "worship" this being. The Avengers, X-Men and Phoenix work hard to fight Entity and its cronies (and fight each other doing so), and free the X-Man completely possessed and used by the Entity. The way this X-Man becomes the Entity's "one true host" and how he and "The Entity" are mutually bonded, totally blew my mind. Very unique. I can't get into it cuz spoilers, but I love this character combo concept.

For Jean Grey, Ms. Loki gives her such a better story as to how and why she becomes the one true host of the Phoenix, and what establishes their bond. Its full of heart. And it ties directly into this "Entity", and its a very awesome, dynamic story and journey. The actual plot twist(s) between Phoenix and Entity were the best. I'm also crazy over the concept artwork shown of the Entity with its "one true host". And damn, I'm so in love with his new suit design 8D

The "Entity" then becomes the central plot device, while Phoenix works hard in this cosmic adventure to uncover the mystery of this being, its true intentions, and combat how it constantly alters and modifies the very essence of the universe.

The finale ties so many heroes with the plight between the Entity and Phoenix, as well as the "Revelation" at the end.

Everyone loved the story, for the most part. Some Jean Grey fans didn't like the ending and felt... because of how Ms. Loki rewrote the Phoenix (which they actually liked)... they wished, the ending for the cosmic rivals was "flipped". They felt it would have completed Jean Grey's story, instead of having her remain with the X-Men at the end.

To me, that was a ridiculous criticism, I don't know why they wouldn't want Jean Grey to reunite with the X-Men, and let the Entity have the ending it has. But, whatever. I mean, the Phoenix needed to continue protecting the cosmos and restoring ****, it didn't need to have the "Entity's" ending. I actually love Jean/Phoenix reuniting with the team to pick up the pieces, and the Entity and its host... does what it winds up doing. Beautiful, emotional ending to me...

One thing that Ms. Loki was really cool about, was including elements of other's suggestions or plots, into the narrative as Phoenix occurrences of future and alternate timelines, and such. She actually liked some of the ideas I proposed, and I told her that... for further info, I'll connect her with the originators of those plots

So... that's the verdict! Jean Grey will actually remain the (primary) Phoenix, while the story would introduce her kinda OC cosmic rival, who will serve as a cosmic level antihero, a foil of the Phoenix's, while focused on a mission of its own... all for a truly epic story that isn't like anything I recall coming from Marvel.

Ms. Loki is animating her story as we speak and will soon give us a release date to the first upload of her and her fans' Marvel fanime universe

sum1

They should go back to what they had in the '80s and '90s. Phoenix is not Jean Grey, Rachel Summers has the Phoenix force.

GMikey

Interestingly, in the collab anime series, Jean and Phoenix are NOT the same. They are indeed separate entities, and this story treats Jean and Phoenix's bond more as a hand in glove type of "perfect fit", rather than them being the one and the same. Rachel also makes an appearance too.

HOWEVER, with the new Cosmic Being, it and the other X-Man ARE one and the same entity. That's why this X-Man is the "One True Host" or "One True (blank)" where this metapotent Cosmic Being is concerned. This X-Man... I don't know how to put it without spoilers, but because of the role he plays in how this Cosmic Force winds up manifesting, is why and how he IS this Cosmic Force, and vice versa, though they appear separate entities. But when he is possessed, they truly become a sole, complete Cosmic Super Power. The break down on that was really clever, and I can't wait to see this in action

PhoenixRising

Hmm... interesting idea. Kind of like Adam Warlock and his doppelganger, The Magus.

Well, I don't know how popular I actually am.

sum1

The Magus was so cheesy and annoying.

GMikey

You got more golden kittens (or whatever those badges are) than I do ^_^

You're actually a lot closer than you realize. This new cosmic entity is later described as an "evil twin" of the Phoenix Force. Not at all like the Anti-Phoenix, which is like a demonic? version of the Phoenix, but... this new entity is such a strange, enigmatic reflection of the Phoenix, yet they become archenemies and serve as foils to each other.

GMikey

Rly? I only know of Magus, not really read comics with him. I hope the anime does Adam Warlock really well. I'd love to see him in action, esp as an anime character

PhoenixRising

Those are actually crowns, and they're reserved for board moderators. Regular posters get stars, like I had before I became a mod.

Ah, that's interesting. It could definitely be better than what Marvel did with that White Phoenix of the Order nonsense.

Oh, and we do have a Dark Phoenix discussion thread, so you could've posted your ideas there. Posters aren't actually supposed to create new threads for discussions we already have existing threads for.

GMikey

o_o and now, a moment of silence for GMikey's brain.... LOL omg, those ARE crowns. At the time of writing, my glasses were off somewhere and I can't see **** lol

The White Phoenix of the Crown thing... I feel that was a result of what some fans I've heard called Jason Aaron's "Phoenix fetish". It also seemed like one of those ideas that were created because "it sounded good" and the writers, as when I researched it, didn't solidify any real substance and depth with the concept, it seemed.

My thread is more discussing ideas to improve this story, as I wanna share with my RP community. However, I will look for the Dark Phoenix thread, and seek even more info there from actual comic fans