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Old 03-19-2017, 03:13 PM
  #61
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Well, see... I don't really think making Batman older makes him more interesting because I've already read Frank Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, and it's been there, done that. Realistically, the younger Batman is better and makes more sense because he's human and everything he does takes a toll on his body. I prefer the 25 year old Bruce Wayne in Frank Miller's Batman: Year One because it shows how he came to be. And again, what is the sense in having Batman as an aging superhero before the Justice League is even formed? You say it makes him more interesting, but I'm more interested in storytelling logic. And it makes no sense for Batman to be near the end of his career before the JLA is even formed because it makes him redundant. How is Batman supposed to found the Justice League when he'll soon be too old to be a member? Frank Miller had Bruce Wayne retire at 45, and when he came out of retirement at 55 he was far from the superhero he once was. This is why superheroes are young, because for an ordinary man with no powers, his body will wear out like a professional athlete's.

It's just not practical for Bruce to be that old when the Justice League is formed because he'll be too old to be part of it. That's why in the comics the Justice League was formed when everyone was young, and why Bruce and Clark are about the same age. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to me otherwise. At the age Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne is he's pushing 50, and just NOW the JLA is being formed? So much for a long career with the JLA like in the comics. Also, making him the great detective doesn't make him a Mary Sue. It makes him who he is. He's not just a guy who goes around beating up criminals, he's supposed to be a detective. That's why Ra's al Ghul always calls him "detective" instead of Batman. If a filmmaker has to dumb down Bruce Wayne for the story to work, he's not a very good storyteller. I've been reading Batman a long time, and the stories in the comics have always been smarter and more compelling, without having to dumb Bruce down. Just my opinion. And making Batman edgier doesn't mean you have to compromise his principles. Even Frank Miller didn't have him kill anyone. Also, I've never seen Bruce as being "perfect." He's always been a flawed character, yet was always able to overcome his flaws. Being the "great detective" doesn't make him perfect or a Mary Sue, just a great detective. Sherlock Holmes is a great detective, yet hardly a Mary Sue.

Is there a copyright issue with Adam Warlock? They did show is cocoon in the first Guardians movie. And all I can say is they'd better get Wonder Man back because I'm tired of Rogue doing this all the time. They can just have her take the powers of some no-name character who they can kill off.

Well, I find actors who don't look like the characters a distraction. I wasn't a fan of Kirsten Dunst either, but I'd rather Mary Jane be a redhead than not. Same for Lois Lane and Selina Kyle having dark hair.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:30 AM
  #62
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Well they did good casting Anne Hathaway for Selina/Catwoman
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:48 AM
  #63
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Well, see... I don't really think making Batman older makes him more interesting because I've already read Frank Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, and it's been there, done that.
Not in films. That's a whole different universe. And if one goes by the principles you're using, you could say we've seen a younger Batman so been there, done that, don't need a younger Batman. Just because an older Batman has been done before in the comics doesn't mean it's not an interesting or valid option for the films.

Quote:
Realistically, the younger Batman is better and makes more sense because he's human and everything he does takes a toll on his body. I prefer the 25 year old Bruce Wayne in Frank Miller's Batman: Year One because it shows how he came to be. And again, what is the sense in having Batman as an aging superhero before the Justice League is even formed? You say it makes him more interesting, but I'm more interested in storytelling logic. And it makes no sense for Batman to be near the end of his career before the JLA is even formed because it makes him redundant. How is Batman supposed to found the Justice League when he'll soon be too old to be a member? Frank Miller had Bruce Wayne retire at 45, and when he came out of retirement at 55 he was far from the superhero he once was. This is why superheroes are young, because for an ordinary man with no powers, his body will wear out like a professional athlete's.

It's just not practical for Bruce to be that old when the Justice League is formed because he'll be too old to be part of it. That's why in the comics the Justice League was formed when everyone was young, and why Bruce and Clark are about the same age. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to me otherwise. At the age Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne is he's pushing 50, and just NOW the JLA is being formed? So much for a long career with the JLA like in the comics.
People are retiring later these days. Older people are doing more. It fits fine for Batman to be older.

Quote:
Also, making him the great detective doesn't make him a Mary Sue. It makes him who he is. He's not just a guy who goes around beating up criminals, he's supposed to be a detective. That's why Ra's al Ghul always calls him "detective" instead of Batman. If a filmmaker has to dumb down Bruce Wayne for the story to work, he's not a very good storyteller. I've been reading Batman a long time, and the stories in the comics have always been smarter and more compelling, without having to dumb Bruce down. Just my opinion.
Making Batman always ahead of everybody and never outsmarted does make him a Mary Sue.

Quote:
And making Batman edgier doesn't mean you have to compromise his principles. Even Frank Miller didn't have him kill anyone.
I'm personallly sick of superheroes' namby-pamby principles. Storm is one of my favorites in the comics, but I always got sick of her saying "The X-Men don't kill." There's a reason Wolverine and Cable were two of my top favorites back in the '90s.

Quote:
Also, I've never seen Bruce as being "perfect." He's always been a flawed character, yet was always able to overcome his flaws. Being the "great detective" doesn't make him perfect or a Mary Sue, just a great detective. Sherlock Holmes is a great detective, yet hardly a Mary Sue.
Batman is the guy who outsmarts everybody and even without powers can beat everybody. That's Mary Sue territory. And the truth is, DC superheroes tend to be Mary Sues. You look at their list of powers and abilities and they tend to have five times as much as any Marvel character. And their flaws don't stop them being given worship-able personalities. This is why I like Marvel, not DC.

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Is there a copyright issue with Adam Warlock? They did show is cocoon in the first Guardians movie. And all I can say is they'd better get Wonder Man back because I'm tired of Rogue doing this all the time. They can just have her take the powers of some no-name character who they can kill off.
They should create a character just for Rogue to take their powers. Have them around a bit, make them powerful, but not too popular, and then have Rogue take their powers permanently. Then Rogue would have the power and nobody would lose any favorite characters.

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Well, I find actors who don't look like the characters a distraction. I wasn't a fan of Kirsten Dunst either, but I'd rather Mary Jane be a redhead than not. Same for Lois Lane and Selina Kyle having dark hair.
Well I can agree with that, but I don't care about the eyes thing.

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Well they did good casting Anne Hathaway for Selina/Catwoman
Yes, she was great. Along with Tom Hardy's Bane she was part of what made The Dark Knight Rises the best of the trilogy.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:25 PM
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Thanks for the links, LightYears!

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Well they did good casting Anne Hathaway for Selina/Catwoman
Yes they did. But her costume could've been better. Having long hair hanging down like that isn't practical for a cat burglar. I'd prefer the outfit from the comics where she has a full cowl covering her head, with the cat-ears and the infrared goggles. And the whip. She needs the whip. Even Indiana Jones had a whip.


Well, I'll agree to disagree with you, sum1. But even though people are retiring older, people who do strenuous activity still have shorter shelf lives. Professional athletes still reach retirement when they're close to 40 because the body can't take that much punishment for that long. That's why Frank Miller had Bruce Wayne become Batman at age 25, so he'd have a long career ahead of him. But there's one more thing to consider: at the age Ben Affleck is he's not gonna be Batman for long. Robert Downey Jr. only had to wear armor and have CGI do the rest, but Batman is a more physically demanding role. When the next actor takes over he'll probably be much younger, making Snyder's old Batman redundant. Just saying.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:24 PM
  #66
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Yes they did. But her costume could've been better. Having long hair hanging down like that isn't practical for a cat burglar. I'd prefer the outfit from the comics where she has a full cowl covering her head, with the cat-ears and the infrared goggles. And the whip. She needs the whip. Even Indiana Jones had a whip.
I liked the long hair sticking out.


Quote:
Well, I'll agree to disagree with you, sum1. But even though people are retiring older, people who do strenuous activity still have shorter shelf lives. Professional athletes still reach retirement when they're close to 40 because the body can't take that much punishment for that long. That's why Frank Miller had Bruce Wayne become Batman at age 25, so he'd have a long career ahead of him. But there's one more thing to consider: at the age Ben Affleck is he's not gonna be Batman for long. Robert Downey Jr. only had to wear armor and have CGI do the rest, but Batman is a more physically demanding role. When the next actor takes over he'll probably be much younger, making Snyder's old Batman redundant. Just saying.
Have you seen the Expendables? Really old guys are doing active action roles these days and it'll only become more common as medicine continues to advance and populations age.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:32 PM
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I liked the long hair sticking out.


Have you seen the Expendables? Really old guys are doing active action roles these days and it'll only become more common as medicine continues to advance and populations age.
Yeah, but Ben Affleck isn't Sylvester Stallone. And even Stallone has to use stuntmen now, and admits that he can't work out like he used to. He said in one interview that after years of action movies he's being held together by crazy glue.

I liked Selina having her long hair stick out when she wore the purple outfit. But otherwise I prefer the full cowl.

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:50 PM
  #68
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Yeah, but Ben Affleck isn't Sylvester Stallone.
I knew you'd say that. Ben Affleck also has many years before he's Stallone's age. Many actors do action stuff at Ben's age and ten years older and more.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:09 AM
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Yea Ben isn't that old yet compared to Stallone
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:13 AM
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Stallone is ancient. But he broke his neck working on the Expendables and he just kept on acting.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:39 PM
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But Stallone has been keeping himself in top physical shape for decades. Ben Affleck has never been consistent and has often let himself go, physically. I also don't think Ben will be interested in doing too many Batman movies.

Ryan Reynolds has kept himself in great shape, by comparison.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:45 PM
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Ben will keep himself in shape if he can make the big bucks out of playing Batman. I think it could go on for a fair while.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:56 PM
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Yeah, but I don't think his interest will hold out. Ben's not really a comic book guy. And he likes directing now.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:01 PM
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He is a comic book guy. He did Daredevil and he was up for Cyclops.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:11 PM
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Yeah, but Daredevil was horrible. And I remember hearing he was up for Cyclops, but he backed out. I don't really know how much he knows about comics other than what Kevin Smith tells him. To be honest, my two favorite Batman versions are Kevin Conroy's, and the Batman from the Arkham Asylum/Arkham Knight/Arkham Origins games.
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