PhoenixRising

Previoius thread: http://www.fanforum.com/f135/other-m...-6-a-63203087/

PhoenixRising

Man, you guys are both depressing me. I blame Brian Michael Bendis. His entire generation of writers has screwed Marvel up.

sum1

Watched the 1989 Punisher movie. Dolph Lundgren was dreadful in the role. I don't care how many black belts the guy has, he can't act.

PhoenixRising

Did you just watch it now? I watched it back when it came out on VHS. You're right, it sucked. But this was back when Cannon Films had the rights to Marvel's characters.

sum1

It really sucked.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, but not as much as the other Cannon Marvel movies, like Captain America, which went straight to video. And Fantastic Four was so bad it didn't even get a video release. Thank goodness that Cannon went bankrupt and shut down after the 80's. They were only ever good for making B-movies with Chuck Norris, Jean Claude Van Damme, and Charles Bronson.

sum1

The awful 1990 Captain America movie? That was bloody terrible. Never saw the Fantastic Four one.

PhoenixRising

No one else has either. Like I said, it never got released in cinemas or on video. It was that bad. And yeah, the 1990 Captain America was horrible. I only got about 20 minutes into it and I turned it off. Masters of the Universe was also horrible. The only movie that Cannon ever made that I actually liked was Runaway Train with John Voigt and Eric Roberts. That was the main inspiration for Speed.

sum1

I've never been a big fan of Captain America anyway. I like the Chris Evans version, but he's not a favorite of mine. The comic book version kind of bores me. And I get pissed off how much attention much he gets in Avengers comics at the expense of other characters, such as, for example, Hercules. Roger Stern, who wrote the Avengers in the '80s when both characters were on the comic, said Captain America was his favorite character and the way he said it seemed to imply he couldn't see how he wouldn't be everybody's favorite. I don't get that. Cap's a boring boy scout with a stiff personality and he's too damn nice. Conventional superhero Never understood Iron Man's popularity either and he gets a lot of attention too. He's a more interesting character than Cap, but not all that interesting. But the third of the "big three" Avengers, Thor, is good stuff, so of course he's the least popular, because people are dumb. But they have to keep tying him down with human alter egos and that thing where if he drops his hammer he switches to human. Must be a real drag during sex.

PhoenixRising

Well, the thing with the hammer was only temporary, sum1. Odin wanted to teach Thor a lesson, so he took away his power, immortality, and his memories, and made him believe he was an ordinary mortal man, a physician named Donald Blake. That was supposed to teach Thor about humanity, compassion, wisdom, empathy, etc. After he had apparently learned his lesson, Thor was freed from the Dr. Donald Blake persona and was himself again after proving his worthiness to wield Mjolnir. As for Iron Man... come on, the suit is cool. He's like a character from Japanese animation. If he were a Japanese character he'd be over 100 feet tall and fighting giant monsters. And Captain America has the whole genetically engineered super soldier thing going on, so that's what sells him. The red, white, and blue are just part of his persona. Remember, he was created by two Jewish writers during a time when the USA wasn't really doing anything about the Nazi holocaust, so Joe Simon and Jack Kirby decided to create a character that would stand up against what was going on in Europe at the time, when most Americans were apparently thinking that it was someone else's war.

sum1

Thor's thing with the hammer was NOT temporary. It lasted from the early '60s to the mid '80s and was later brought back numerous times, such as in the late '90s and early 2000s with the Jake Olsen human alter ego.

Iron Man's armour is cool, but he doesn't have that much more going for him. And I've indicated to you before that I'm not any more interested in Japanese animation than I am in animation in general. Which is not at all.

Yeah, yeah, I know all about Captain America's origins and original significance. But that stuff isn't enough to support the character long after the Second World War was over, when a new generation of more complex superheroes had been invented and the comics medium had evolved considerably., He came to look cliched, dated and primitive, just like his fellow early superheroes, Batman and Superman. He just doesn't match up to superheroes invented in the 1960s and later. And as for the super soldier bit, it's not so impressive considering it doesn't even make him superhuman. If it weren't for his bloody shield he'd be dead meat long ago. Annoying overrated frisbee. And I'm downright sick of his moral superiority.

The only thng Captain America has going for him is the fact that he's Irish American, and Daredevil is a much better Irish American superhero. There aren't that many Irish American superheroes. I suppose Shanna the She-Devil counts seeing as her last name is O'Hara and her uncle's a police commissioner, very Irish job.

PhoenixRising

Ohhh, the Irish thing gets to you, huh? Now I know why you like Daredevil so much. Yeah, I get what you're saying, sum1. And by temporary, I meant the hammer thing wasn't permanent. I know it lasted a while because Marvel enjoyed doing their tropes.

sum1

Yeah, but they kept bringing it back, so it might as well have been permanent.

dragonfire

I don't see what so boring about Cap? He's a beloved icon, a legend.

sum1

That's part of what's wrong with him. The comics worship him. He's always right, always morally superior, always perfect, always righteous. And he's so much a big bloody icon that he's practically like a big bloody statue, all grandeur and gravitas and no life. After Black Panther, he's the Marvel character who's most like a DC hero. Give me a relatable superhero any day over an "icon". Thank to Chris Evans, he's ok in the MCU movies, except when he talks politics, but in the comics he's just dull. His sh don't stink. He's not human. He's a ing saint. He's a damn Mary Sue. Actual Marvel gods like Thor and Hercules are much more human and flawed.