There You'll Be

I agree with you. NK is going to do what it wants to do. Trump is doing his best this week to make it look like they're accomplishing something, when they're really not.

I think Charles Manson being the leader and instigator would never have had a shot at parole.

sunnykerr

Trump declaring North Korea as a sponsor of North Korea won't change anything at all. They keep saying it will give the U.S. "access" to more or other sanctions. And, honestly, how are there any sanctions left to impose on North Korea? That's what I want to know.

And it doesn't matter much either, but he's playing right into Kim Jung-un's hand. Because that guy keeps his hold on power only so long as he convinces his people that the United States is such a big enemy, that it's worth it that they all live in abject poverty (while he lives the life of a god). Because everything is put into preparing for all out war with the United States.

Charles Manson never repented, did he? And, I guess, he was never ill (like Susan Atkins). Leslie Van Houten has apparently changed radically while in prison, hence why she is being recommended for parole. But, as far as I'm aware, she's still in jail, since the state's governor has to ratify her parole and, in 2016, he denied it. So she may not be released either. She wouldn't be the first "Manson woman" to be released on parole anyway.

There You'll Be

Yep, NK is always going to do whatever it wants to do. Trump is just making a show, because he's accomplished nothing in office. He's trying to seem presidential. No other sanctions that I know of can/will be imposed.

That's a really good point, and true statement. Kim controls his people that was (aside from killing them outright) by convincing them we're going to destroy them. Now that you've said that, I wonder if Trump is doing the same thing-causing us to fear them, so he can justify increasing our arsenal.

He's also still not enforced the Russia sanctions that were voted on and approved to be enacted Oct. 1st. Of course, he said that's because he has "chemistry" with Putin. More chemistry than "any other president". You can be he'll enforce the ones against North Korea immediately, if there are any new ones.

No, Manson didn't repent, at all.

Also, the Haitians who came here after the earthquake there, now have to go...Trump administration says 60,000 Haitians who came to US after earthquake must leave | The Independent

A suicide bombing at a Mosque in Nigeria Nigeria suicide bombing kills 50 in Adamawa state - BBC News

sunnykerr

One thing is true of all political leaders, whether they're dictators or democratically elected, and it's that fear is a very powerful tool they have at their disposal. It's not just Kim Jun-un or Donald Trump. Because of the role they play, they all have access to being able to scare their people and, in scaring them, controlling them to a certain extent.

Some fear is justified. As I've mentionned before, we go through a lot when we travel so help protect us against terrorist attacks. And that's okay. But, by the same token, our leaders have to be careful about what they tell their people. Because they will be believed. Even Trump is believed. So when he talks about things like Mexico "sending rapists" to the United States... it has a very real impact.

But then, the same happens when Trudeau, Macron or Theresa May (in England) start talking about the dangers of fentanyl. So that's why they have to be careful. They have to use their power of influence over their citizens with wisdom.

The bombing in Nigeria is terrible... and unfortunately it's not something that happens rarely in Africa. It's all the more frustrating because it is often Muslim-on-Muslim violence, which goes fairly unreported. I mean, the fact that more Muslim people die of terrorist attacks than pretty much any other group.

As for Trump culling back his administration's aid to Haitian refugees, it's not terribly surprising. The Haitians in question have no rights and can hardly fight back. This is what Trump does best: pick on people who can't fight back for political points.

Meanwhile, have you heard of Russia denying there's been a nuclear accident after radioactive traces were found? At those levels, there either was an accident or the site is completely unsafe. I'm not sure which is worse. Either way, Russia clearly has no intention to do anything about it.

There You'll Be

Yeah, that is true. Trump is definitely believed-and unfortunately for us, he screams hate and divisiveness. He definitely has control. I guess I've always assumed that presidents used that power for good.

Going based on what you said, they should be using their power to influence in a limited way-to encourage awareness, and keeping people informed and alert, without creating hostility, and fear that stops others from living their lives; or that creates hatred out of fear.

Okay-so Muslim on Muslim violence goes unreported for the most part, and isn't used to prevent the same thing from happening over and over, because they're destroying themselves, rather then anyone else?

Yes, I saw that about the radiation reports earlier. Russia completely blew off that anything had happened, until it started being reported by several sources. My mind tells me there was an accident, because the levels seemed to appear pretty suddenly.

No, Russia doesn't seem to think there is anything they need to do about it, or any reason to try to prevent it happening again.

I'm starting to believe people in power think they are immune from consequences of any type of thing they don't take action on, or worse, that they do take action on. I mean, how do they decide what is safe exposure? How do they decide what action needs to be taken on something like this?

Won't it take years to realize/assess the actual damage of exposure?

In the war of words (still escalating) with North Korea, http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/22/asia/n...ion/index.html

sunnykerr

The thing is politicians are human, too. I think Trump is a bit of a living caricature of just how inept and divisive political leaders can be. So it's easy to look at him and take everything he does as what not to do.

But all leaders have a certain amount of control over what people think and they wouldn't be human if their personal opinion didn't bleed into that every once in a while. For instance, Justin Trudeau favours the legalization of cannabis. I happen to agree, but if I didn't have an opinion, he certainly wouldn't be leading me to think about the potential dangers.

I mean, I realize it's not quite as bad as Trump's "Mexicans are rapists" and "people who favour gun control are losers," but do you see what I mean?

Well, it is reported... Gah. OK. Remember that story you posted about the bombing in Nigeria? Well, a suicide bombing is a Boko Haram thing in Nigeria. Boko Haram is a Muslim jihadist terrorist group. They're the ones who kidnapped all those girls a couple of years ago. They set off that suicide bombing inside a Mosque, during morning prayers.

So the terrorist was probably "Muslim" (Islam does not support terrorism, in any way, shape or form) and his/her victims were definitely Muslim. So it's Muslim-on-Muslim violence, but that's not what people take away from the story. Terrorism, jihad... Muslims being bad guys. That's the usual take-away. But Muslims were the victims, too. Proportionally, there were more Muslim victims than there were Muslim bad guys here.

Ditto this: Suicide car bombing at north Iraq market kills 23

Both Nigeria and Iraq have non-Muslim citizens, but they have Muslim majorities. Which means that, when you hear of terrorism over there, the majority of the victims will be Muslims. Not just the bomber.

The war of words with North Korea is not gonna end, I think. Not until Trump is out of office anyway. This is Trump we're talking about. There's nothing he loves more than feuding with someone.

Meanwhile, though, I was happily surprised to hear that Tillerson has called Myanmar action 'ethnic cleansing'. I mean, it falls short of calling it genocide, which would imply the need to get involved. But (a) no U.S. administration has spoken of genocide since World War II (I don't think anyway) and (b) I never thought the Trump association had the ability to recognize that Muslims can be the victims of even ethnic cleansing.

There You'll Be

That's one thing I don't envy about politicians/leaders, at all. I would never be able to separate my feelings/beliefs/thoughts to any degree. So, I guess that they mostly can is a good thing.

Yes, I do see what you mean.

I think I meant to ask if Muslim on Muslim violence wasn't as widely reported as Muslim on anyone else violence. Personally, I really didn't realize how bad Muslim against Muslim terror and killing was.

Thanks for the link. I hadn't heard anything about that. I know they won't capture/destroy all of the IS (what does ISIS mean? Is IS a part of that?) .but it's good that they're making progress. I'm guessing that could lead to more suicide bombings in retaliation.

Honestly, I was shocked to hear the US declared it an ethnic cleansing. I'm very relieved they took a stand on it. I don't see how anyone could deny it being anything other than that, but I was pretty sure that the US was going to deny it, or refuse to take a stand on it at all.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKBN1DM2XC I'm guessing this was the reason behind Kushner's trips to Saudi Arabia-them buying weapons from us.


On the absurd side of the day, I just saw a Christmas commercial for gun sales in the area.

sunnykerr

It would come as no shock to me whatsoever that Kushner was visiting Saudi Arabia, in part, over the sale of weapons. Weapons and war are two central concepts in the relationship between Saudia Arabia and the United States. And, not for nothing, but they're also two countries who are leaders of their parts of the world. The United States being to the Western world what Saudi Arabia is to the Middle East.

In other related and terrible news: Bangladesh has signed a deal with Myanmar to return hundreds of thousands of Rohingya Muslims who fled a recent army crackdown. They're literally sending them back to be slaughtered. It's awful.

Also: Rwanda offers refuge to enslaved Libya migrants I think we all know that there is still slavery nowadays, but it's chilling when we come across evidence of it on such a large scale. They're being auctioned off, can you imagine?

So, on this day of U.S. Thanksgiving, let me just say how thankful I am to live in this part of the world. Because there may be a whole lot of room for improvement, but it's still not that bad on that front.

There You'll Be

That is the most cold, heartless thing Bangladesh could have done. It's inhumane. It's the same kind of situation, where the weakest can't do anything to stop that, or protect themselves. I don't see how anyone can rationalize sending people to their deaths, horrific deaths at that.

Wow-I can't even fathom slavery going on to that extent, that they're being auctioned off this way. I mean, it happened with slavery here, I just had hoped the world had made progress.

Seeing the above 2 articles, I'm beyond grateful to live where I do, too. I'm just floored.

I don't know how the people behind these actions live with themselves.

Egypt attack: IS flags carried by gunmen, say officials - BBC News The latest on the attack in Egypt. So many dead. To wait outside with guns to shoot people fleeing? My brain just doesn't wrap around that.

sunnykerr

There's something there that I don't understand, because the Canadian government has just pledged $35 million to help Bangladesh with the Rohingya refugees, which is ridiculous if Bangladesh just plans on dropping those refugees back in Myanmar. We have politicians here arguing for more restrictions on the Myanmar elites.

So, I don't know, maybe we're trying to get Bangladesh to reverse their decision? I hope that's what it is, because the alternative is just too depressing an option as a Canadian.

I've heard of large-scale slavery before. Things like women from Indonesia going to work as domestics in Saudi Arabia and having their passport seized and being made to work, essentially, like slaves. I've heard of wage slavery. People being made to work ridiculous hours just to make a pittance.

But, yeah, the idea of people being auctioned off as slaves as thrown me. I didn't realize this was still going on in this day and age. But it's good news that there is reporting on it. It's better to know about these things. And it's better that many, many people know about these things, because that's when countries like Rwanda decide to stand up and do something about it.

Ten percent of the victims are children. The death toll is at 305 this morning and there are 30 children are among them. So, I can understand how terrorism happens. But the willingness to kill children is where I tend to lose whatever compassion I can have for people who get caught up in terrorism groups.

Egypt was the wrong place to do something like this, because the Egyptian government isn't subtle or too concerned with waiting things out to see where the dust settles. They already claim to have retaliated with air strikes on terrorist targets... and who knows what that means and whether yet more innocents may have died in those reprisals.

There You'll Be

Wow! I wonder if it is to try to get them to change their position on sending them back? It must be. I just cannot, for any reason, imagine Canada giving them the money for any other reason. I have to believe that is why.

You're right about the reporting of the slavery auctions being publicized. It's the best thing that can happen, (out of a cruel and heartless problem) is for there to be publicity, and knowledge about it. I'm seeing awareness bring outrage, and action, a lot more these days. Something has to be done.

I had no idea there were so many children. Terrorists go after innocents, and you get no more innocent than a child. I am afraid they're going to go after more and more of them.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be on Egypt's bad side, much less live near where they are retaliating against the terrorists. I don't know what the answer is. More lives lost no matter how you go to stop them.

canflam

8 men claiming to be North Korean washed ashore in Japan

North Korea defector who crossed DMZ 'was shot five times'

Wow. that Korean man in the 2nd story had reportedly a foot long worm in him & shrapnel. Incredible he's still alive.

sunnykerr

^ And he had more than one worm, too. Of course, as I'm sure you noticed, a lot of people thought that his escape was so dramatic that it seemed like North Korea might have orchestrated the whole thing to send an undercover agent. So that remains to be seen.

Our politicians don't always get it right, Kim, but I am also hoping they have pledged that money because there's a way to change Bangladesh's plans on what to do with the refugees. I am afraid that the Rohingya are gonna fall through the cracks, because the big powers of this world don't tend to go out of their way to help out Muslim minorities... especially when they aren't white.

What happened in Egypt and Nigeria also shows that, even within the world of Islamic terrorism, there is a lot of variety. It isn't just one group and they don't all have the same goals... In fact, it's hard to tell what goals they have at all, outside of trying to get power.

There You'll Be

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he turns out to be an agent of NK. If he's not, then the North Korean army are crap shooters.

I just think your government gets it right more often than they get it wrong. I really believe that's why they pledged the money, and I definitely hope that it works, and helps the refugees. Like you, I would hate to see them left to fend on their own.They would surely fail, and we'd never hear another word about it until it's too late.

I usually think they don't have any goals, other than to kill, and create fear. I see though, you're right-ultimately it's power they are after. It seems they're just trying to battle over the places they want the power.

In Bali they've ordered 100,000+ to evacuate, expecting a major volcanic eruption. Mount Agung: Bali volcano alert raised to highest level - BBC News

Gun background checks hit another new high on Black Friday. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0d4906cafb11b It doesn't track how many gun purchases each person made though, just that it's up again.

I guess that explains a Christmas/Black Friday ad I saw here for gun sales. (I wasn't sure if it belonged on this thread).

sunnykerr

It'd be hilarious if North Korea's mighty (and compulsory) army was a bunch of crap shooters, though, wouldn't it? I'm sure South Korea will keep an eye on this guy. The rest of the world can't be the only ones to see these events with a bit of side-eye.

One thing is for sure, though, wouldbe undercover agent or not, he's proof positive of just how terrible conditions are in North Korea. He's underweight and demonstrably "too short" for his age, and his belly was full of worms and other signs of terrible malnutrition. And he's a soldier, part of that segment of the population North Korea has an actual interest in keeping healthy.

Oh, Canada gets it wrong plenty of times. Every year, we have new evidence of just how willing we are to screw over the First Nations (the Canadian equivalent of Native Americnas) one way or another. It's so handy that they can't technically be a Canadian citizen and a member of whatever tribe they belong to. We have a similar problem of not coming down hard enough of domestic abusers, cops who abuse their power, etc. as you guys do.

You may not hear as much about that because it's all domestic stuff, but let me remind you that we had ten years of Stephen Harper where, internationally, if there was a wrong call to make, it seemed real hard for him to not immediately pick that option. We went back on the Kyoto Protocol under him, backed illegal detentions on Guantanamo Bay, and moved away from our historical role of peacekeeping missions in support of UN mandates.

And that's not even taking into account his he used taxpayer money to fund travel, vacations, etc. of his ministers, how he put the oil industry in charge of environmental policy, gutted funds for pretty much all scientific development and research, actively sought to silence opponents and critics, etc.

Believe me, Canada has plenty of skeletons. No country's perfect.

But, since Harper is gone, I do hope we've returned to being of good faith. Which is why I hope this money going to Bangladesh is to help keep the refugees safe.

The Bali volcano is scary, but all we can do is hope for the best.

As for the gun thing... I wish I was suprised that they're failing to find consensus over the background check issue.