[Almeida's Army]

[Sursonica]

I'll try not to give out spoilers (altough if anybody doesn't want spoilers then why come to this thread eh?) but I'm still anyway in too much of a shock to make any rational analysis, We have until November for that but:

I am still overwhelmed over the finale. It was so much stuff, so intense, it was awesome, and sad (actual ACTUAL TEARS) and a lot of WHAT IS GOING ON, and a lot of shouting OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG, and then WHAT IS GOING ON AGAIN, then AWWWWWWW SO THAT'S WHAT IT WAS.

And the final scene-


THE FINAL SCENE


anyway, it was perfect, I LOVED it. Every single part of it.

[bubandgeek05]

I'm in shock over this episode. Now if BBCA didn't ruin it with commercials every 5 minutes, it would have much more impact.

But wow, did not see any of it coming. I'm hearing a lot of people thought it was weak, and I'm kind of not sure why. It kept me at the edge of my seat and was OMG will it/won't it, did they, etc until the end.

[smeagolkitten]

I thought it was absolutely fantastic, I was on edge the whole episode and that certain scene towards the end... it's all I can seem to think about, lol

[Raonaild]

I wouldn't say this was the best story ever - a lot of it was exposition, explaining things that were happening rather than having a lot of actual action - it did certainly give us a lot to think about.

Trenzalore

"On the Fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a question will be asked - a question that must never ever be answered: 'Doctor Who?'"

It's possible that this prophecy from S6 was fully fulfilled by this ep, and 'the fall' meant literally falling from the sky to the ground, rather than the death of Eleven.

John Hurt as the Doctor

I thought it was funny that they credited John Hurt as the Doctor on screen like that, at the same time that the Eleventh Doctor was making the point that that incarnation didn't call himself the Doctor.

My theory (all speculation, but I'll put it in spoiler tags):

Spoiler:

John Hurt's 'Doctor' is an incarnation between the 8th and 9th Doctors, rather than a future version of the Doctor. He's sort of like the Valeyard (who was referenced in the ep as well), who was the Doctor between regenerations 12 + 13.

I think the Hurt incarnation of the Doctor was the incarnation involved in the Time War. This ties in with Clara finding the book about the history of the Time War, and reading the Doctor's name. I suspect now that she didn't read his 'real' name, she read whatever name the Hurt version of the Doctor went by during the Time War. And we know the Doctor did things within that war that he deeply regretted, like killing the Time Lords, it fits that during that period he didn't really consider himself the Doctor anymore.

Also, the regeneration of 8 to 9 was the one regeneration we never saw on screen, so that's really the only place the Hurt Doctor could fit into the Doctor's past incarnations (assuming he's not from the future). And because the Hurt incarnation doesn't call himself the Doctor, whenever they show the past faces of the Doctor, it's not inconsistent if they don't include Hurt.

River Song

Seems like this ep was River's final appearance, and I was surprised that we saw the Library version of her. On the show, they've never shown an appearance of both the Doctor and River where it's after the wedding for both of them. In fact, from the Doctor's point of view, every appearance of River except this one occured before the wedding. But it's still not clear when/where she learned the Doctor's real name.

Speaking of the Doctor's name, I liked the way that was handled in this ep, and that the title The Name of the Doctor was actually a bit of misdirection - his 'real' name wasn't really important, the big surprise in this episode is that there are times when the Doctor chooses not to call himself the Doctor and goes by some other name (this did happen before with the Valeyard, but there wasn't a lot of explanation given at the time for why the Doctor became the Valeyard, and the new name just seemed to be a way to disguise himself).

Crossing the Doctor's Timeline

Clara jumping into the Doctor's timeline gave us a reasonable explanation for her. But I'm curious where this is all going now that the Doctor has jumped into his own timeline as well. How much of his past will he see and/or change now? Is this just going to happen for the anniversary special, or might it last for a whole season? Might this finally be the opportunity that leads to the return of the Time Lords?

[Forwood4Bamon]

I cant wait for more. How long is this going to be on break?

[smeagolkitten]

Raonaild - actually, River's appearance in The Angels Take Manhattan was post-wedding for the both of them (even post-prison for her). And it was made clear in the wedding episode that THAT was not when she learned his name.

And considering the way the Time Lords were handled in The End of Time, I doubt they will ever return. They had become so focused on self-preservation that they were willing to let the rest of the universe cease to exist because of it. Or did you mean just revisiting that area of the Doctor's history and learn more about it?

[sparksღfly]

I absolutely loved the episode. The idea that Clara saved the doctor so many times and the scenes with the past doctors, it was just amazing I'm just surprised cause i thought that River would still be alive and that at the end, we would have some indication that she was going to the library. But their scenes were great and heartbreaking I'm glad we didn't get his name . And the final scene "Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor"

[BlondieLeigh]

I really enjoyed this episode. Wasn't exactly sure what had happened when it finished, but I've watched it a few times since then.

I love how things played out, and how important it has made Clara. If she hadn't done what she did, pretty much everything would have been lost. I'm really glad that she seems to remember now, and hopefully it will stay that way.

I hate that this episode may have been River's final appearance. I kind of expected it after Amy and Rory left, but I didn't want it to happen. Still hoping that we will see her again but I'm really not convinced (especially as convinced as I was after the episode).

So glad we didn't actually get his name, I don't want to.

[quin0611]

It comes back in November and Omg a new Doctor!

[albion_princess]

Originally Posted by frenchgleek (View Post) I absolutely loved the episode. The idea that Clara saved the doctor so many times and the scenes with the past doctors, it was just amazing I'm just surprised cause i thought that River would still be alive and that at the end, we would have some indication that she was going to the library. But their scenes were great and heartbreaking I'm glad we didn't get his name . And the final scene "Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor"

You've pretty much said what I feel about this episode. I loved the bit with the Doctor and River and when they kissed. Agree it was completely heartbreaking.

Even though I'd got spoiled with reading that John Hurt was the Doctor, I still thought it was quite cool. But, I adore John Hurt, so I don't think I would have cared what character he played or how brief his scene was.

But my favourite part was Clara appearing in the Doctor's past and trying to save / help him. I loved seeing her in the footage with the previous Doctors or just having a 'Doctor' run past her. I just had a huge smile on my face the whole time.

But my absolute favourite part of the episode was when she spoke to the First Doctor was my absolute favourite part of the whole episode. (I also loved the start where we see him and Susan stealing the TARDIS.)

[Raonaild]

Originally Posted by smeagolkitten (View Post) Raonaild - actually, River's appearance in The Angels Take Manhattan was post-wedding for the both of them (even post-prison for her). And it was made clear in the wedding episode that THAT was not when she learned his name.

I'd forgotten that appearance, I need to go back and watch that ep. But the wedding ep was not the only time she could have learnt his name, for example she also saw his cot with the Gallifreyan writing and Amy/Rory couldn't read. But other than Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead, there was never a time in River's timeline where she talked about knowing the Doctor's name, so it's hard to pinpoint when she found out.

Originally Posted by smeagolkitten (View Post) And considering the way the Time Lords were handled in The End of Time, I doubt they will ever return. They had become so focused on self-preservation that they were willing to let the rest of the universe cease to exist because of it. Or did you mean just revisiting that area of the Doctor's history and learn more about it?

I think all bets are off now, because Moffat has set himself up to be able to change existing continuity by having Clara and the Doctor literally jump into the Doctor's timeline and leaving them there at the end of the ep. Who knows when they'll get out of it, it could be resolved in the next ep, or they could go jumping through different points in the Doctor's timeline for the next season. They might try not to change anything, but still change things unintentially, Marty McFly-style. That this might involve the history of the Time War is not just my idea, Moffat dropped some pretty big references to it into Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, and had Clara discover the Time War history book and read the Doctor's name. And then brought that scene up again in this ep as Clara remembered the events from the TARDIS.

So yes, I think they could now literally re-live the Time War and undo the destruction of the Time Lords, rendering The End of Time irrelevant. I hope they do too, because I really disliked that ep and what it did to the story they'd established for the Time War from the beginning of the New Series.

[hiddleskittlesღ]

I cried, OK?

[albion_princess]

^ Anything in particlular or just the whole episode?

I got a bit teary eyed at the Doctor and River saying bye to each other.

[BlondieLeigh]

Originally Posted by hiddleskittlesღ (View Post) I cried, OK?

I did too, multiple times. My sister was telling people I was an emotional wreck. She was right.