Doctor Who - 4x13 "Journey's End" Episode Discussion - Page 12

stoptheqtip · 07-06-2008, 06:27 PM

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.Doctor/Rose fans, were you happy with the ending?

I still don't know. It sounds sad, but a couple of fics that I've read dealing with the fallout of JE and it's actually helped a lot. At first, I disliked it. Now? I still dislike it, but I understand it and why the Doctor left her with him-not-him and why this is the closest the Doctor and Rose are ever going to get to a happy ending. Which is weird, because I wasn't expecting any sort of happy ending- I was expecting them to be torn apart in some tragic way again. I suppose this is better- at least, somewhere, in some sense the Doctor and Rose get to be together and the Doctor actually gets to be sort of happy. Got to wonder about when the wanderlust kicks in, and if one planet's going to be enough. And I'll shut up now. I've thought about this waaaaay, waaay too much.

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I'm still feeling pretty confused about it

You're not the only one. And my telly's sound was working perfectly- with subtitles. And I've watched it a good three times? I still don't know what's going on.

Oh, and if Mickey joins Torchwood, as it's been rumoured, I may actually start watching. I liked Ianto and Gwen in DW, and I LOVE Mickey. It would totally be enough to get me watching.

pacifierrocks · 07-06-2008, 06:39 PM

You know what I wish we could've seen in this episode? Rose saying goodbye to Mickey and Captain Jack.

stoptheqtip · 07-06-2008, 06:41 PM

Or, Rose saying hello to Jack properly. That would have been nice.

lancer1993 · 07-06-2008, 08:08 PM

Brilliant final!

So much happened it was a shame it was only 63 minutes long and not 90.

Loved how they wrapped up the Donna character but I have a feeling she could come back, I wouldn't rule anything out.

TW - since most were killed off in the last season final I'm thinking Martha and Mickey will join Jack next time on TW.

Now we have a 5 month wait for the xMas ep.

I need to watch it again...

fitbrit · 07-06-2008, 09:00 PM

Overall, I liked the finale a lot. I was quite satisfied with how things turned out.
What I loved:

Daleks speaking German. I had to translate the German bits for my wife. I thought of JJ-Isa as I did so.

I did like the Doctor-Rose ending. It was done very neatly, as life-long companionship is something the Doctor could never offer. Now he can*.

Failed attempt to backfire the reality bomb. That would have been too easy, although I did wonder whether the device would be activated by its own destruction and that the 'failure' was planned all along.

Donna's 'Death'. Somewhat controversial, but in the end she is no worse off than if she'd never met the Doctor - without the 'Turn Left' consequences. I lved the nonchalance with which she dismissed the Doctor. Great writing/acting.

The prospect of Mickey on Torchwood. I've always loved Mickey and his underdog character. I've felt sorry for him and the way Rose has treated him over the years. I think he'll be great on Torchwood.

Dalek Caan. No need to elaborate I'm sure.

Davros. Great performance, effects and voice. A thoroughly believable nemesis.

Doctor 10b had the 'humanity' to commit genocide. Doctor 9(?) had done this before, but he felt he had no choice and regretted having to have made this decision. Doctor 10b jsut did it. Nice follow-on from the ruthless protrayal of humans in Midnight.

What I wasn't too thrilled about:

Towing the Earth. Ugh! Should have just written that the power from the Torchwood rift etc. allowed the Earth to tap into he Tardis' drive and be transported back to its normal solar orbit. Nice of the moon to not drift off too far as well. Really poor physics, with a few bookcases toppling over while the Earth was pulled along at realtivistic speeds (not to mention the initial acceleration) to get it back where it belonged.

The sheer existence of a master control panel that can disable the Daleks and the Reality Bomb. Sure it took a Time Lord's intelligence, but it was a bit too easy and anti-climactic. I have to keep telling myself that the show is aimed at kids too.

The ability of the Daleks - and everyone else for that matter, it seemed - to instantly contact anyone else, anywhere, with full audio and video. Just how did Jack Mickey and Sarah Jane avoid detection in that little chamber, yet instantly get put through to the vault to threaten the Daleks with the Warp Star? If the Daleks could so easily teleport Martha to the Crucible, why couldn't they as quickly teleport Donna to the vacuum of space once she was a threat? I wish they wouldn't introduce concepts and then be selective about their usage as convenience dictates.

The duration of the show. It was obvious that RTD had come up with some great conclusions to wrap up loose storylines, give the viewers something like what they wanted and leave on a tidy ending to his tenure. I am certain he could have done it to even higher satisfaction if the show had been given a feature length run time of 90 minutes or so. Corners wouldn't have been cut, greetings and goodbyes would have been more complete, and we would have been happier.

Final thoughts/comments:

I'm pretty sure that the Doctor used the regenerative energy to heal and curtailed the process there. It's still Doctor 10 in my books.

The BBC really needs to get its act together and start shooting/broadcasting DW in HD, and Confidentials too, please.

I can't wait for the specials and the next series!

*I think though, that after a couple of years of living together, they'll get tired of each others' crap and the constant bills to pay, the bickering over how they never save the Universe any more and how the 'real' Doctor probably had more stamina (two hearts help, you know). Sorry everyone.

tvfreak · 07-06-2008, 09:34 PM

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Originally Posted by fitbrit (View Post)

Towing the Earth. Ugh! Should have just written that the power from the Torchwood rift etc. allowed the Earth to tap into he Tardis' drive and be transported back to its normal solar orbit. Nice of the moon to not drift off too far as well. Really poor physics, with a few bookcases toppling over while the Earth was pulled along at realtivistic speeds (not to mention the initial acceleration) to get it back where it belonged.

The sheer existence of a master control panel that can disable the Daleks and the Reality Bomb. Sure it took a TIme Lord's intelligence, but it was a bit too easy and anti-climactic. I have to keep telling myself that the show is aimed at kids too.

The ability of the Daleks - and everyone else for that matter, it seemed - to instantly contact anyone else, anywhere, with full audio and video. Just how did Jack Mickey and Sarah Jane avoid detection in that little chamber, yet instantly get put through to the vault to threaten the Daleks with the Warp Star? If the Daleks could so easilty teleport Martha to the Crucible, why couldn't they as quickly teleport Donna to the vacuum of space once she was a threat? I wish they wouldn't introduce concepts and then be selective about their usage as convenient.

Gotta agree with these things here. Master control board, what? Piano key-like control buttons? Hm...

I'd like to think the towing of the earth could have been saved with one of those "warpy" effects where people seem to morph slightly, and then back. It would also have been funny if, given the Doctor's imperfect driving and the sheer implausibility of getting the planet exactly into it's old spot, he announced that because of the slight alteration in the orbit and moon's alignment, etc, London summers will now be slightly shorter and slightly rainier... or something to that effect.

I'm also going to add that while it bothered me at first, I think I am satisfied with the Doctor/Rose ending. I mean, their relationship prior to Ten2 was somewhat a matter of subtext, never being spoken aloud - and in that, I have to admit, was where I found it appealing. So it seems contradictory that turning the subtext into, uh, overttext would be appealing, but, at the same time I like it. But I like to think that a part of the Doctor longs to be human... and this is sort of his opportunity. He gets to have his cake and eat it too, in a sense.

lancer1993 · 07-06-2008, 09:44 PM

Great wrap up

Towing the Earth well it's a little blue box towing a planet so IMO reality left the building long ago so I don't mind the whole minor shakes and no real damage, guess it had a dampening field?

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The BBC really needs to get its act together and start shooting/broadcasting DW in HD, and Confidentials too, please.

Here in Australia S4 just started Sunday night and it's on our ABC HD but only 720 not 1080.

***Raonaild*** · 07-06-2008, 09:50 PM

Heh, I have a confession - the first thing I thought when the Earth was relocated by the Daleks in SE was, "So what happened to all the satellites?" I mean, the moon is big and obvious, but I work with earth observation satellites, so I couldn't help wondering if those and the various communications satellites got relocated as well, or if they just flew off into space when the earth disappeared. Even with the planet in the Medusa Cascade, people seemed to still be able to communicate okay around the world, TV stations were still broadcasting and fancy UNIT/Torchwood information technology still seemed to be working, so how would that happen without our planet's network of satellites? But I suspect I was one of very few people who worried about this

I didn't mind the TARDIS towing the earth back into position, as impossibly complicated as that would be. I just wish they hadn't shown everybody falling about and holding on to things as the planet moved - look, the earth moves all the time, and we don't fall about because the greatest force acting on us is the gravity of the earth itself. If there's another force acting on the earth big enough that we could notice it, then the planet is in serious, serious trouble. Let's just say that the TARDIS was able to generate a forcefield around the earth to keep the planet and the atmosphere safe while towing, and move on.

Oh, and it was very convienient that those various cities had the big fireworks shows all queued up and ready to go as soon as the planet made it home.

angry little lawyer · 07-06-2008, 11:46 PM

Saw the episode today. Loved it.

Loved all the companions together around the Tardis...I even loved the "towing the Earth" thing...maybe cheesy, but still pretty cool IMO.

Kind of sad that Rose didn't end up with the "real" Doctor. Really, though it was the only "happy ending" solution. Since Billie Piper wouldn't have gone on again (I'm assuming because of her other show), the only other alternative would have been for the Doctor to just leave Rose all alone again and at least this way, she's not alone. Poor Doctor 1 though...

And Donna, poor Donna...

Not being able to remember everything she did with the Doctor...

Regarding Martha and Mickey being on Torchwood, I'm in the minority (?) of people who are happy about it. Seeing Mickey walk off with Martha and Jack had me stoked and hopeful that he'd join TW. I can just see Mickey and Jack having full-on snark-athons now...

Can't wait!!

LOL.

stoptheqtip · 07-07-2008, 07:22 AM

The AI for this episode was 91. And it was #1 most-watched program for the week. That is practically unheard of. So, yay for this episode, even if I'm not entirely sure it deserved it, it's still brilliant news.

SiriuslyPotter · 07-07-2008, 07:48 AM

I think it deserves it.

and the general audience obviously love it, if a 9m audience get's an 91 AI.

DW as number one has never happened before (atleast in the new series) I think, we always lose out to the soaps, even VoTD was only Number two! so hooray for RTD and co.

stoptheqtip · 07-07-2008, 07:50 AM

Hmm, was it really as good as last week? Or better than Dommsday, which only got an 89? I don't think so. But that's just me.

VotD was the lead-in for the episode of EastEnders (which I watched and thoroughlyenjoyed- it was actually a really good episode) that beat us, though. I bet if DW had followed EastEnders, DW would have been #1.

SiriuslyPotter · 07-07-2008, 07:59 AM

I actually like it better, last week had too much Ianto.

Who I kind of don't like.
And as far as I'm concerned any TV show that can make me cry (not out of boredom) is quality TV.

And fandom and the general audience look for different things, we are more nitpicky, it doesn't make our opinions more valid, in the end the Beeb care about the AI's rather than what fandom thinks.

fitbrit · 07-07-2008, 10:41 AM

Okay, I'm going to have to ask... what on Earth is a "shipper"?

***Raonaild*** · 07-07-2008, 10:49 AM

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Originally Posted by fitbrit (View Post)

Okay, I'm going to have to ask... what on Earth is a "shipper"?

LOL, welcome to Fan Forum

A "shipper" is someone who favours a particular relationship on a TV show. In the world of New Who, a lot of fans "ship" Rose and the Doctor (10th Doctor particularly).

"Shipping" is a big part of FF, moreso than any other site I've ever frequented. FF's main demographics (generally speaking, young women) tend to get most emotionally involved in shows where they're interested in a particular relationship. Most of the drama that you find on the boards at FF has to do with "shipping", particularly when you get two different "ships" that overlap (e.g. Angel/Buffy vs. Spike/Buffy on BtVS), or people who love a particular "ship" vs. people who can't stand it (i.e. "anti-shippers").