[xmag]

New thread.

The last discussion was about the dupes. Why were they introduced in the show, what was their purpose and what happened to them, post-Graduation?

[*Coccy*]

In the books i remember that only Ava survived in the end while the others died.
maybe it's what had happened?

Why were they introduced in the show

i have no idea.
i only know that they added to the general feeling that Max&Co were artificially created/programmed by people that wanted them to take the place of dead people. They created these 8 people with the sole purpose to use them like robots. At least this is what i always thought.

[xmag]

In the tie in books, there were a lot of aliens on Earth and strangely, most of them were working in the show business or in the medias , lots were in Hollywood, now, that's funny.

[*Coccy*]

really how.. convenient too
maybe it's a metaphor of how sometimes the better way to hide yourself is visibility.

[xmag]

Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post) really how.. convenient too maybe it's a metaphor of how sometimes the better way to hide yourself is visibility.

Maybe. Or maybe it was meant to take it as the people living in Hollywood are aliens in the sense that they have dumped the human species!

[Jasper1975]

Originally Posted by xmag (View Post) New thread. The last discussion was about the dupes. Why were they introduced in the show, what was their purpose and what happened to them, post-Graduation?

To me, it was very vague at the end of the storyline in New York. Where did they go. Strange they would leave Tess alone like that. And then vanish.

I think they introduced the dupes to show that they were engineered but that it was possible they set to Earth a duplicate set in case something happened. The question would Zan have been accepted if he had made it to the Summitt. Or was Max the true king.

Nicholas made the comment that maybe the New York crew was defective and the Roswell group were the real deal.

Although it always got me that Tess should have been part of the New York group while Ava should have been with the Roswell group. Tess was more of the temperment of the New Yorkers. While Ava seemed to have a conscious and seemed more human.

Maybe Nasedo made a switch LOL.

But then one never knows what kind of person Tess would have been if she hadn't been raised by Nasedo. So who knows...

It was very apparent that Ava was alive and went on her own. But very vague what happened to Lonnie and Rath...

[Crystaline]

I agree. But guys, really, not all New Yorkers are crazy mad and aggressive. I keep seeing that generalization being made and it's really not true.

[Jasper1975]

I don't think anyone was saying that. Or I wasn't. Sorry if it was implied. I was pretty only referring to the difference to the Roswell aliens and the New York podsters with the exception of Ava who seemed different that Lonnie and Rath. Not the citizens. I agree, not everyone is that way.

Just like every day life. People are different. Families are different.

[Crystaline]

You said New Yorkers and I took that to mean you meant actual New Yorkers rather than the dupes you were referring to. So, my mistake entirely.

And now I feel stupid.

[Jasper1975]

No problem. I can see why you could make that connection.

[KenL]

Since we are currently discussing the dupes, I thought I would ask the following questions.

The New York gang are called duplicates. Are they hybrids just like Max, Isabel, Michael and Tess or are they second generation clones with our podsters being the originals? If the duplicates truly are duplicates, would this prove that personality is a function of nature? Or are the differences explained by some error in how they were created?

[Jasper1975]

Originally Posted by KenL (View Post) Since we are currently discussing the dupes, I thought I would ask the following questions. The New York gang are called duplicates. Are they hybrids just like Max, Isabel, Michael and Tess or are they second generation clones with our podsters being the originals? If the duplicates truly are duplicates, would this prove that personality is a function of nature? Or are the differences explained by some error in how they were created?

I think all of them were hybrids. But with the dupes of New York sharing the same DNA as the Roswell teens. They were probably considered dupicates because of all of them contained the same DNA. Human and alien. The New York squad grew up in a different enviornment and knew more about themselves. So they reacted in a very different way than those in Roswell who grew up in a more structured enviornment

And also calling the New York crew dupes was a way to differ them from the Roswell group that we knew so well.

I think it showed that enviornment played a role in how they turned out. With the Roswell teens. They had human as well as alien DNA. We saw Max and Isabel growing up in a loving family which had a role in how both turned out. Michael was more troubled. And growing up with Hank showed it. Tess growing up with Nasedo showed how much influence can have on a life.

With the New York squad. They grew up without the same enviornment as the others. So they were more gritterer and more street wise - good and bad. They had a different life experience.

I think they were duplicates also...because if something happened there would be another one out there... Which is why Lonnie and Rath went after Max.

Although it was never clear whether they got rid of Zan because he wasn't the real king. And went to Max; because he was... The real deal.

But who knows...

[*Coccy*]

what the momogram from destiny said:

"If you are seeing me now, it means that you are alive and well. I take this form because it will be familiar to you, and it will help you to understand what I am about to say. You have lived before. You perished in the conflict that enslaves our planet but your essence was duplicated, cloned, and mixed with human genetic materials so that you might be recreated into human beings.".


and here the translation of the destiny book that you can find on roswell uncut archives
(it's the transcript of what you could see in the episode)

"You are the Royal four. Zan the king, Ava his queen, vilandra his sister, rath his counselor. You were created from the genetic material of your alien predecessors and human subjects. You were given human for so that you could live safely on this planet undetected until the time comes for your return. You have been given the granolith, a transport between this planet and antar. you have also been given communications technology which will allow you to access information from your true home. The chamber containing your hibernation pods and the granolith has been hidden away from human settlement. It can only be accessed by the four of you. You have been provided with a guardian who will protect you from danger and keep you hidden from your enemies both human and antarian."

here the whole transcript

Blu5.com - Roswell Reference Thread


the key here is:

"your essence was duplicated, cloned, and mixed with human genetic materials so that you might be recreated into human beings.
+
You were created from the genetic material of your alien predecessors and human subjects.


notice: no one talked about souls or "transfered" things here. Max and&Co and the dupes are the result of a clonation both alien and human. They're hybrid clones.
Biologically and genetically Max&Co and the dupes are identical. Also half of their dna (the alien one) is like Zan&Co (alien donors) and half of it (human dna) is like their human donors.

But nature always prevails so it's not surprising that they developed different personalities.
Who are the dupes? well.. they're just that.. dupes. One more copy of the royal four to use if the first one died?
The only difference between the dupes and the roswell set is that the roswell one was chosen as the first choice so they have the granolith. they're the first choice. While the dupes are the second choice.

Although it was never clear whether they got rid of Zan because he wasn't the real king. And went to Max; because he was... The real deal.

It seems to me that they killed Zan because he didn't want to go at the summit while they obviously wanted to go. So they killed Zan and tried to find Max in order to use him.

It's not clear if Zan had the royal seal too, but it seems that Nicholas went to him first. If he couldn't pass the "test" then why contact him in the first place? mystery.

anyway it could make sense that the king had a seal while the others didn't have it.
maybe Zan could get it only after Max died? we can only make suppositions.


anyway i find interesting that for the antarians Max&Co were considered Zan&Co even if they're just clones not them and it doesn't seem to me that they were able to transfer souls. But maybe this is the core problem here, maybe we take for granted that for the antarians you're you because you have a specific soul. Maybe for them the "soul" (as the thing with that importance) is the dna. There're many cultures in our world where people believe that our "spirit" our personality is inside our blood.
however one of the best things in the story is how they developed (or tried to develop) this dilemma about clones and if they can be the same people. Obviously the story proved that they can't be the same people. They weren't the same people. Reason of why they made different choices.

[Crystaline]

I think Max and co would've happily given over the throne and their royalty to the dupes to be left alone from all that alien business. They wanted none of it.

[Jasper1975]

Originally Posted by Crystaline (View Post) I think Max and co would've happily given over the throne and their royalty to the dupes to be left alone from all that alien business. They wanted none of it.

I think by the end of the series... Yeah, Max was having none of the King stuff. He had come to realize too much had come from it. And given that he was given a whole new prospective after his death experience.

But before hand, I am not sure if anyone wanted to give up the royalty. Although they weren't having it. And would have rather have lived in Roswell and being semi-normal people in their own ways.

So in that respect it's possible they would have had no problems giving up the throne and the whole destiny business. Especially since they were on Earth and had no reason to want to go back to Antar...

Except intially with Michael who was trying to find where his real home was. To which he found in Earth and Maria. And Max in that he needed Antar to save his son.

Isabel was going back to Antar if Max was... But none of them had any use for Antar.