[GenL]

Originally Posted by xmag I never really understood how the collective consciousness worked, in the books. With alive beings, i could imagine that they were somehow linked by some telepathic thingy (like the Talons, in Earth Final Conflict), but weren't the dead part of the collective counsciousness ? How did the CC stopped the migration of souls, wherever they go ? It was already a complex concept, in the show, but it concerned mostly the R4, and i got the impression that made them special.

To be honest, I didn't watch very much of season three, so I didn't even realize it was addressed in the show. I did watch the series finale, and maybe a handful of episodes but I didn't make it a priority to watch that last season.

[Bob the Jeep]

I'm not entirely sure anything like the CC was addressed in the show. Perhaps you meant the topic of souls?

I know in the books (The Outsider, actually) Max indirectly wonders if the soul could be cloned. The books don't take the idea very far, though. It's just a passing philosophical question which is brought to the reader's attention.

According to Metz-mythology, I assume the CC is a collection of all the "essences" of the beings. Once that is destroyed, all those minds will be destroyed as well (the dead ones for sure, perhaps the living ones--since the mind can't live without the body and/or CC). So, the idea of a soul--for the aliens at least--seems to be that there is no soul. There is only mind. Much like Buddhism.

[xmag]

Once that is destroyed, all those minds will be destroyed as well (the dead ones for sure, perhaps the living ones--since the mind can't live without the body and/or CC).

So, does this mean that a genocide took place ? and that Trevor came back to a dead planet ?

[Bob the Jeep]

Originally Posted by xmag So, does this mean that a genocide took place ? and that Trevor came back to a dead planet ?

No. Because not all the aliens had joined the CC. There was the Kindred (the rebellion) and there were people who had not yet reached their akinos.

Also, nobody knew for sure what would happen to the living people who were connected to the CC. That's why everyone was worried about Max in the last book. Trevor said that he doubted he would survive--BUT that might have been because Max was being held prisoner by the CC.

Most of the beings were not wholly connected to the CC--much like the way Max and Ray were connected in ealier books. They could "tune" the CC out and continue their own thought processes without being completely submissive.

When Trevor and the gang decide to blow the CC apart, Max is 100% consumed by the CC and his mind is unable to "tune" it out. So, perhaps the people in the CC who were only 40% connected or so made it out alive.

[xmag]

No. Because not all the aliens had joined the CC. There was the Kindred (the rebellion) and there were people who had not yet reached their akinos. Also, nobody knew for sure what would happen to the living people who were connected to the CC.

I prefer to imagine that the people connected to the CC survived. I don't like thinking that the Roswellians are responsible for the death of millions of being. Maybe they are alive and disconnected, unbalanced, and need to get back on their feet, all by themselves ?

[Roswell_Rawker]

Originally Posted by xmag I prefer to imagine that the people connected to the CC survived. I don't like thinking that the Roswellians are responsible for the death of millions of being. Maybe they are alive and disconnected, unbalanced, and need to get back on their feet, all by themselves ?

I thought of that same thing xmag; the thought of that many deaths would be devastating to me.

[Bob the Jeep]

I'd like to think that the aliens did have souls, but there is conflicting evidence in the books. The whole thing with dead people in the CC muddles things up.

"The ocean was made of auras...[Max] heard a single word from the two presences closest to him...Son...But his parents...his parents were dead...So this meant he wasn't only connecting with all those who lived on his home planet. He was connecting to the spirits of the dead as well." - The Intruder (cc pg. 5)

As soon as Max connects to the CC, he is touched first by his parents, then some random aliens, then by Ray Iburg. The longer he stays connected, the more presences crowd around him and almost immediately he looses contact with his parents and Ray.

I don't think Max ever makes contact with his parents again after this. I could be wrong, but they seemingly disappear. Ray, too. This is a little strange to me. Max had never met his parents before in his life; wouldn't they try to have some kind of connection or reunion?

Perhaps the reason why the parents and Ray don't reappear is because they have 'moved on'. Their bodies perished in the crash in 1947. That would leave their mind. Perhaps they could remove their mind from the CC at any point after physical death and thus completely die. At that point, the soul would move on to the afterlife.

Of course, that is probably just wishful thinking on my part. I don't think the books give much evidence for the existence of the soul (at least for the aliens).

The most likely reason why Ray and the parents never show up again is the culture of the alien race. If every being is a part of the CC after their akinos (excluding the Kindred), then, in essence, every being would belong to one another. There is no privacy and there is no ownership. So there would really be no need for families, either--at least not in the sense that we think of them. It is clear that Max's parents love him, but to what extent?

Also, the CC is comprised of so many beings that Max is constantly bombarded by the minds of other aliens. Perhaps their auras made it too hard for Max and his parents to reunite. They'd have to find each other through all the people.

But then why was it so easy for Michael and Max to find each other? Hmm...perhaps because they shared the same conduit to the CC. ?

Just some thoughts...

[GenL]

I've finally finished all of the books.

You raise some interesting points, Bob. I just thought that there were too many beings and the more forceful of them pushing their way to the front. So, Max's parents couldn't get in there and make a separate connection. It is too bad that Max couldn't have had more "time" with them before the CC was destroyed.

I wanted to read the books so I could see where the show differed, and I am glad I read them. We have already discussed many ways I thought the show was better. I still feel that way, but I am still very glad I read the books. It showed that there were other ways to go. I wish that the show could've had a little more of the light heartedness that the books had. I mean, the books were always dealing with serious issues, but they never let us forget that they were kids. And, in life, even when there is something serious going on you have to find a little humor, or else you'll just go crazy. There are many times in my own life experiences where I will go from crying to laughing, and not because I've gotten over what I was crying about.

I hope that makes sense.

I wish there were more books for me to read. I feel like I have lost the Roswell world all over again.

[Roswell_Rawker]

Aw Gen,I know how you feel.Its like you have something good,and then all of a sudden its "finished".But you know,Roswell obviously still lives on,thats why we're here,years later,still discussing the ifs,ands,and buts about it.

I also agree that thats too bad Max was unable to connect with his parents again.To me,thats a little sad and disappointing.And its strange how Bob mentioned that perhaps they had no "privacy" and they had a different perspective on "family".I never thought of it like that before.

[xmag]

We have already discussed many ways I thought the show was better. I still feel that way, but I am still very glad I read the books. It showed that there were other ways to go. I wish that the show could've had a little more of the light heartedness that the books had. I mean, the books were always dealing with serious issues, but they never let us forget that they were kids.

I feel the same way. With the books, I could never really see them as adults the way they were on the show, was it the writing, the storylines ? Maybe the writing, because the plots were serious, Adam died like Alex in the show. So i think it was purposely written to suit young readers, while the show was more angsty in its writing and development.

[Roswell_Rawker]

Thats true isn't it.The show was way more angsty where I felt the books still had a light feel to them.Sometimes I felt it was too light,but thats just MHO. But I felt,despite the absence of parents most of the time and too many loose ends,I liked how the show portrayed human/alien emotion. (say,Independance Day,Balance,EOTW,Harvest (uh,Max and Liz there not the Skins) , CYN,HOM,CDB,and others.I identified,at that time,more of what they went through (believe it or not,aliens I know) then the books.But thats just me.

[xmag]

I identified,at that time,more of what they went through (believe it or not,aliens I know) then the books.But thats just me.

Yes, all in all, the show was more powerful than the books. It was easier to relate to the characters on the shows than the ones in the books . They felt more real.

[GenL]

You've all expressed why I liked the show better, too. I like angst! In television, that is.

I've forayed into fanfic now, just to keep a link going.

[AlexEvans]

The show did become more angsty in later seasons... I hate angst though. But perhaps in the beginning it did hit a better balance... it was more serious, more powerful, without being the angstfest the end was.

It always does seem to come down to balance.

[Roswell_Rawker]

Thats true,it was a balance of angst,where it became so much angst at once and all around.On the show,I lived with that though,because well,to me,life can become that way.But if I were to read that in fan fic over and over I think I would shoot myself.On the show it didnt really bother me though.The characters felt like real people.Thats something I never have felt in a show before.