Roswell - RBI # 5 : The sci-fi in Roswell - Page 16

KenL · 12-22-2008, 04:23 PM

Well, not really. The material in FMax would be older (by the difference in their ages) than that in Present Max, so "t2" would be different.

The thing is that anything FMax would do which affects PMax, would affect FMax's history; in effect changing him. Any change would likely cause him to be different enough, that he didn't come back to be there to make that change. The usual example is killing your own grandfather: if you kill him, then you can't be born; so you couldn't kill him, so he's still alive, so you exist & can kill him, but then...[/b]

The science website that reached the conclusion I posted took that into consideration. It was the contention of the scientist that the older version and the younger version could not occupy the same space. Since time travel is fiction, you are free to disagree. In the spirit of the Roswell Bureau of Investigation I will say that the best grade I can give that episode is a C

Reggie · 12-22-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenL (View Post)

The science website that reached the conclusion I posted took that into consideration. It was the contention of the scientist that the older version and the younger version could not occupy the same space. Since time travel is fiction, you are free to disagree. In the spirit of the Roswell Bureau of Investigation I will say that the best grade I can give that episode is a C

Ah, but time travel is not (necessarily) impossible! There are several agreed-upon methods of time travel, presently impossible in practice but not in theory. FTL travel is probably the most familiar, but there are others involving a close approach to a rapidly-spinning black hole, a wormhole one end of which had been subjected to relativistic travel, etc.

That being said, the sci-fi background of Roswell's producers is thin enough that FMax's plausibility is about equal to the odds of a blind squirrel finding a nut.

BTW, what's that "science website" you're citing? Are we talking Wikipedia, or Penn State's Physics Department? I'd like a look at it myself.

xmag · 12-29-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie (View Post)

Ah, but time travel is not (necessarily) impossible! There are several agreed-upon methods of time travel, presently impossible in practice but not in theory. FTL travel is probably the most familiar, but there are others involving a close approach to a rapidly-spinning black hole, a wormhole one end of which had been subjected to relativistic travel, etc.

That being said, the sci-fi background of Roswell's producers is thin enough that FMax's plausibility is about equal to the odds of a blind squirrel finding a nut.

.

Yeah, I think the same thing. That "explanation" was a convenient way to explain Future Max not going to his past self and to create some angst by asking Liz to break the heart of his younger self.

Although, Max's death in season 3 was giving me a real headache.

KenL · 12-29-2008, 03:04 PM

Do you think the writers of Chant Down Babylon was influenced by the Trek movie, The Search of Spock?

Reggie · 12-29-2008, 03:30 PM

I don't recall that ST3 involved time travel at all. Spock merely copied his "soul" to McCoy's brain, from where it was later retrieved to reload Spock's mind into his new Genesis-created body.

xmag · 01-02-2009, 10:16 AM

Yes, but Roswell was co-produced by Frakes and he was involved in the Star Trek universe so maybe there's a link, there.

Reggie · 01-02-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmag (View Post)

Yes, but Roswell was co-produced by Frakes and he was involved in the Star Trek universe so maybe there's a link, there.

Maybe, but wasn't Frakes off making another movie most of S2 and the first part of S3?

I'd like to thing he was partly behind keeping S1 and the first part of S2 sane... well, by comparison, anyway.

xmag · 01-15-2009, 06:22 AM

He was also present during season 3, since he guest-starred in it. So he was involved, not just in name but physically.

Reggie · 01-15-2009, 01:42 PM

Well, yes; he came back from making the movie. That's why S3 suddenly lurched toward the Roswell we knew, about the time of "Chant Down Babylon". Many said, "Oh, now it'll get better!"

Unfortunately, by that time the plot damage had been done.

xmag · 01-19-2009, 06:13 AM

Sometimes, I'm happy that Roswell only got three seasons. When you see how other shows turn out, it's really a benediction that it stopped where it did.

Reggie · 01-19-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmag (View Post)

Sometimes, I'm happy that Roswell only got three seasons. When you see how other shows turn out, it's really a benediction that it stopped where it did.

Word. I recall there were folks campaigning against a fourth season.

Citrus and Vine · 01-23-2009, 05:04 PM

The expression “Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while”, means that even if people are ineffective or misguided, sometimes they can still be correct just by being lucky. I hadn’t heard the expression, until I read it on this thread. It’s a curious expression to me, knowing that squirrels have a keen sense of smell, which means that blind squirrels can find nuts by smell, as do sighted squirrels.

Television shows that survive more than briefly have more than luck going for them. They have support from people who like and appreciate the show’s content.

Many popular and successful shows, including Roswell, are cancelled for a variety of reasons, including financial reasons. A single executive with authority can cancel shows people love and enjoy.

The WB, a small network, intended to cancel Roswell at the end of Roswell’s first season. It didn’t produce Roswell itself. It paid Twentieth Century Fox for the right to air Roswell episodes, which was a cost to the WB. Fan campaigning and support convinced the WB to pick up Roswell for a second season. The WB (Warner Bros.) then produced its own teen alien show Smallville about Superboy, instead of picking up Roswell for Season Three. UPN, an even smaller network, which wasn’t available in many parts of the U.S., picked up Roswell for a third season, but wasn’t able to pick up Roswell for a fourth season, even though Roswell did very well for it. Both UPN and the WB networks no longer exist.

After Season Three on UPN, Roswell fans campaigned for Roswell to be picked up by the SciFi Channel, which was financially able only to air Roswell in reruns, rather than pick up a fourth season. The SciFi channel cancelled its most popular show Farscape in September 2002, after Roswell ended in May 2002. Despite campaigning by Farscape fans, the SciFi channel used its escape option and didn’t pick up Farscape for a new fifth season. Financial considerations prevented the SciFi Channel from picking up Roswell or Farscape for new seasons.

Science and science fiction change, with new ideas, new information and new theories. While some people want theories to be generated by data, others realize that theories once thought impossible to be proven or disproved, are later proven, with advances in technology.

Theoretical physics provides new ways of thinking about things.

“Because of new work done by theoretical physicists during the past five years, Steven Hawking (among others)–a previous skeptic of the possibility of time travel–now views it as “theoretically possible.”” ----from here . Time travel may or may not be possible, in any way other than theoretical or science fictional.

People interested in time travel speculation can read four pages by Michio Kaku kaku1-1 . He has also written the book Parallel Worlds and appeared on the History Channel, which is available on DVD, and he has signed to do a 10-part series for the Science Channel, based on his New York Times bestselling book Physics of the Impossible.

Some stories have people time travel and meet their younger selves, without either being destroyed, while other stories have both being destroyed. As people on our planet aren’t able to time travel at this time, a way of testing or proving what could happen if someone like Max met his younger self isn’t available.

Stories provide a way of thinking about and talking about things in different ways. Otherwise impossible things are possible in stories, whether or not they are possible in any other way.

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Reggie · 01-23-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citrus and Vine (View Post)

Many popular and successful shows, including Roswell, are cancelled for a variety of reasons, including financial reasons. A single executive with authority can cancel shows people love and enjoy.
(...)
After Season Three on UPN, Roswell fans campaigned for Roswell to be picked up by the SciFi Channel, which was financially able only to air Roswell in reruns, rather than pick up a fourth season. The SciFi channel cancelled its most popular show Farscape in September 2002, after Roswell ended in May 2002. Despite campaigning by Farscape fans, the SciFi channel used its escape option and didn’t pick up Farscape for a new fifth season. Financial considerations prevented the SciFi Channel from picking up Roswell or Farscape for new seasons.

It's true that one disgruntled executive can cancel an otherwise popular show. As I understand it, Gilligan's Island and Petticoat Junction were both victims. As for FarScape and Roswell being cancelled for financial reasons, bear in mind that the Sci-Fi channel is always starting new programs. It is obviously more expensive to build new sets than to continue an existing program. It is also a greater risk to start a program which may or (more likely) may not be popular, than it is to continue producing a program which already has a following.

Please also bear in mind that The Sci-Fi Channel is owned by NBC/Universal, which is in turn owned by General Electric. They are one of the biggest corporations in the world, with profits commeasurate with their size. I'm not saying that they could afford to continue them, quite the contrary! I'm saying that if anyone could have made a profit with these shows as they were, GE/NBC/Sci-Fi could have. It's just that the final seasons of FarScape and Roswell turned out so badly in their own ways that projected future seasons would have been losers.

FarScape turned out badly, IMHO, because the whole wormhole thing was the driving force behind most of the plots and plot arcs. Since the problem was solved, the series had reached its natural conclusion. Likewise, the whole "growing up alien among humans" thing was done in by the final season of Roswell. Stargate SG-1 and Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and Charmed) also came to their logical conclusions by defeating greater and greater enemies, until they were vanquishing immortal gods. You can only go uphill so far, then you run out of hill...

BBBoBBB · 01-24-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie (View Post)

It's true that one disgruntled executive can cancel an otherwise popular show. As I understand it, Gilligan's Island and Petticoat Junction were both victims. As for FarScape and Roswell being cancelled for financial reasons, bear in mind that the Sci-Fi channel is always starting new programs. It is obviously more expensive to build new sets than to continue an existing program. It is also a greater risk to start a program which may or (more likely) may not be popular, than it is to continue producing a program which already has a following.

Please also bear in mind that The Sci-Fi Channel is owned by NBC/Universal, which is in turn owned by General Electric. They are one of the biggest corporations in the world, with profits commeasurate with their size. I'm not saying that they could afford to continue them, quite the contrary! I'm saying that if anyone could have made a profit with these shows as they were, GE/NBC/Sci-Fi could have. It's just that the final seasons of FarScape and Roswell turned out so badly in their own ways that projected future seasons would have been losers.

FarScape turned out badly, IMHO, because the whole wormhole thing was the driving force behind most of the plots and plot arcs. Since the problem was solved, the series had reached its natural conclusion. Likewise, the whole "growing up alien among humans" thing was done in by the final season of Roswell. Stargate SG-1 and Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and Charmed) also came to their logical conclusions by defeating greater and greater enemies, until they were vanquishing immortal gods. You can only go uphill so far, then you run out of hill...

One thing that you're forgetting is the salaries of the actors. After a successful first season many of the stars of the seres ask for and recieve raises, sometimes substantial. Building a new set is a one shot expense, per-episode salary increases are an on-going expense.

I have to disagree with the comment that Roswell did well for UPN, the only really good ratings they got for Roswell was the season premier the ratings dropped by half for the second episode and never recovered. Fans saw the direction of the show from the premier, read the spoilers and knew the show was doomed. On The WB everyone excused the sorry plotlines by saying the network interfered with Katims' "vision", UPN supposedly gave him free rein and the plotlines got worse.

I don't know how much Frakes was actually involved in the scifi of Roswell, David Nutter was a driving force during season one and the X-Filish feel was his. He left towards the end and the big skew towards more scifi and less "mysticism" was obvious as was the de-emphasis of the human relations. Still would like to know where Nutter and St. John were planing on going with the Native American mythology they were building.

Ronald Moore was brought in for season two to handle the scifi aspects of the show, Katims wasn't a scifi writer. Moore supposedly came up with the Granalith idea. I'm sure he had more planned for it then the travesty that was Departure but then he wasn't in charge of the story lines.

Citrus and Vine · 01-24-2009, 11:02 AM

UPN was a newer and much smaller network than the WB or the big three networks CBS, ABC, and NBC. Roswell was initially picked up by UPN for 6 episodes. Roswell did so well for UPN that it extended its episode order to 22 episodes, which was later cut to 18 episodes. Roswell’s third season on UPN aired in the same timeslot as CBS’s popular, long-running series “Everybody Loves Raymond” and the same timeslot as the WB’s new teen alien show Smallville about Superboy, which continues to air new episodes.

UPN wasn’t available in many parts of the U.S. Roswell did very well for UPN, which wasn't able to continue Roswell.

Despite UPN’s cancellation of Roswell, people wanted more Roswell and campaigned to have Roswell picked up by the SciFi channel, which then aired Roswell in re-runs, rather than purchase new Roswell episodes, which would have been more expensive. The SciFi channel cancelled its most popular show Farscape in September 2002, after UPN cancelled Roswell that year.

Roswell also aired in countries outside the U.S.

Roswell fans successfully campaigned to have Roswell released on DVD. Roswell DVDs were recently re-released with new covers, last year.

All three Roswell seasons on DVD continue to be bought online and in stores, including being bought by people who read negative comments before purchasing them.

Roswell has people who understand, appreciate and enjoy all three seasons of Roswell. Science fiction is an integral part of Roswell. Drama, romance, mystery, suspense and humor are also integral parts of Roswell.

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