Roswell - Cherishing Max & Liz Evans #638: "He LOVES her and she LOVES him. It's the WORLD to him!" - Ron Moore - Page 6

*Coccy* · 06-01-2009, 10:18 AM

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Originally Posted by xmag (View Post)

That was cut? Why

? aliens girls really weren't trustable, huh? Vilandra betrayed everyone on Antar and Tess betrayed everyone on Earth!!

i don't understand why they cut that phrase but then they left Max's phrase who was clearly quoting something that Kal previously said.

Maybe they removed it because of the implication of it. An implication that still remains and it's huge: Kal knew that Tess was an enemy. This can mean so many things. Either Ava was an enemy too or Kal knew about the deal or both things.

also he asked Max if he had mated with another hybrid. Another hybrid, not his programmed mate. I mean, the way he said it it seemed like If Max had more than a possibility (talking about the hybrids) but the other female of them was his sister! was him referring to the dupes too? or maybe to other hybrids.

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By the way, I saw the trailer for the new SA tv show and it looks good! When will it start airing?

the one where her daughter is like Tess?

~*Sonia E.*~ · 06-01-2009, 10:14 PM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

totally.
it was simply ridiculous and a very pathetic way in order to start a new relationship

And that's why the relationship didn't last. Max and Tess never knew each other, and even relying on past life memories couldn't make it better either.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

it's very special indeed
in the books i remember that M&L saw the little boy healing a small injury on his little sister <3

Awww, so cute!

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

really. I have to say that in her place Tess would have killed the baby

it figures if she would have helped Max. that's sci.fi

Exactly!

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

exactly. she knew that what had happened wasn't his fault only
they both took their own responsibilities and "forgave" each other

True. And at the end of it all, Max and Liz wanted to be together come what may.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

when you have an amazing couple like M&L with a great build up and a guy who is crazy in love with his girl how can you put him with another random girl who is a stranger for him? you have no way.
that's where the stupid storyline was created. M&T were always based on forced things and choices. They were never based on genuine love and free will. they were forced beyond limits, i can't think about another fictional couple so forced like them. Max HAD to be with her. His feelings were TOTALLY irrelevant and unimportant both for Tess and the people who love her and them together. HE MUST BE with her. period. No matter if there was no reason.

And just look at the disastrous results of putting Max and Tess together. I believe Max and Tess had a better chance of being friends than trying to have a romantic relationship.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

TEOTW only made it even worse and cheapened everything about M&T even more than before. A couple can't be based on the sacrifice of the happiness of the two people who really love each other. Also what kind of relationship can be the one when you know without a doubt that he's with her just because he can't be with the one he really loves? Just because he doesn't know the whole truth.
Because if Max had know the truth about Liz things would have been totally different even before departure. And even when he didn't know the truth and he was free to date who he wanted Tess didn't get a chance for the whole year. She had to take advantage of the worst moment of his life and even then it was obvious that he didn't really want to be with her and it was a mistake for him, something he regretted. (and he even said it)

So true!

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

They had to make Liz lie to him in order to separate them but even then Max never stopped to love Liz. he didn't know the truth, he thought that Liz didn't love him anymore. He was even leaving the planet with another woman, still he never stopped to love only her.
so the only good thing about TEOTW is how it proved that even if you try to change the future you can't change Max's feelings for her and their love.
In the end their love always prevailed. They totally belong together.
With them there's no "maybe" or "if" because we even got the alternatives and possibilities but they always end up together, married and happy.

You just can't force love no matter how hard you try.

I agree. You can try with all your might to make someone love you, but if the love is not genuine or true it's just a lost cause.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

i agree.
i also don't think that "stuck on Earth" is a phrase that can be used for Max&Co because they never wanted to leave earth, in the first place
Max was always forced by the need to save his son but he never wanted to go there because he wanted it or saw the planet as his home.
He had to do it but even when he wanted to try in the third season it was clear that his idea was to go there take the baby and then come back asap.
It was clear like water that the aliens didn't want to leave this planet and no wonder why. their life is there. the people they love are there.
Only Tess really wanted to go on antar because she had nothing in earth.
then she had to come back here when she discovered that antar wasn't so good like she had always thought and that the "queen" wasn't welcomed with open arms like she had dreamed.

True. Max never wanted to go to Antar, except when he thought his son was dying which was a lie by Tess. I'm just remembering what Max told Liz in Busted about how he had no way to go to Antar. Well...that was until he found info in Tess's stuff from Nasedo, and Isabel calling the spaceship that crashed them on Earth a lemon.

*Coccy* · 06-02-2009, 10:04 AM

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Originally Posted by ~*Sonia E.*~ (View Post)

And that's why the relationship didn't last. Max and Tess never knew each other, and even relying on past life memories couldn't make it better either.

absolutely.
it's already hard to start a relationship itself even between people that know each other it figures between two strangers where one of them is crazy in love with another person (and this person loves him back).
why the pain?
it doesn't make sense it's a loss of time

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True. And at the end of it all, Max and Liz wanted to be together come what may.

really, it's the only good thing about season 2. it made them more real and mature

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And just look at the disastrous results of putting Max and Tess together. I believe Max and Tess had a better chance of being friends than trying to have a romantic relationship.

it was hard for them to even be friends but i agree that if she was really needed and she wasn't bad then friendship was more needed than a romantic relationship
the purpose of the royal four wasn't to make soap operas. They were supposed to be a group. who loved who was irrelevant for their supposed purpose.
but she couldn't accept it and in the first timeline she left just because Max didn't want to sleep with her. that was the core problem: she didn't give a damn about their supposed purpose as a group. She just wanted to jump into his pants.

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I agree. You can try with all your might to make someone love you, but if the love is not genuine or true it's just a lost cause.

love is immune to any power and everything
it's one of the most powerful things of our world
above all you just can't choose who you love.

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True. Max never wanted to go to Antar, except when he thought his son was dying which was a lie by Tess. I'm just remembering what Max told Liz in Busted about how he had no way to go to Antar. Well...that was until he found info in Tess's stuff from Nasedo, and Isabel calling the spaceship that crashed them on Earth a lemon.

yep. Liz was remembering him that he still had a problem to resolve (his son) and he told her that he had no way in order to do it however.
then when he found the way it was useless however.

LindsayLovely. · 06-02-2009, 04:22 PM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

Love is immune to any power and everything
it's one of the most powerful things of our world
above all you just can't choose who you love.

Very well said, Coccy.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
You're exactly right.
And this is especially true of our Max + Liz.
They tried to move on, they tried to look past their love,
but they couldn't.
In the end it's all about who your heart calls for.
And for them, the winding road always led to each other.

~*Sonia E.*~ · 06-02-2009, 09:34 PM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

really, it's the only good thing about season 2. it made them more real and mature

You can definitely say that again!

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

it was hard for them to even be friends but i agree that if she was really needed and she wasn't bad then friendship was more needed than a romantic relationship
the purpose of the royal four wasn't to make soap operas. They were supposed to be a group. who loved who was irrelevant for their supposed purpose.
but she couldn't accept it and in the first timeline she left just because Max didn't want to sleep with her. that was the core problem: she didn't give a damn about their supposed purpose as a group. She just wanted to jump into his pants.

I agree. I don't see how anyone can say that Tess wasn't selfish and make excuses for her behavior, or blame it all on Max and Liz. The point of the Royal Four was to work together as a unit, not for it to become a royal party for two - aka Max and Tess. Max probably would have been nicer to Tess if she would have backed off and realized that a romantic relationship between them was never going to happen. But no, Tess couldn't understand that Max was in love with Liz and therefore didn't want her, so she left town. Then good old FMax landed on Liz's balcony and gave Tess a second chance in a changed future to get Max. Unfortunately for Tess, she still wasn't happy in her relationship with Max and betrayed him. Be careful what you wish for and all that jazz.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

love is immune to any power and everything
it's one of the most powerful things of our world
above all you just can't choose who you love.

Perfectly said!

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Originally Posted by LindsayLovely. (View Post)

Very well said, Coccy.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
You're exactly right.
And this is especially true of our Max + Liz.
They tried to move on, they tried to look past their love,
but they couldn't.
In the end it's all about who your heart calls for.
And for them, the winding road always led to each other.

Most certainly true for Max and Liz.

*Coccy* · 06-03-2009, 09:52 AM

I made two animations from the van scene

she adores him

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Originally Posted by ~*Sonia E.*~ (View Post)

I agree. I don't see how anyone can say that Tess wasn't selfish and make excuses for her behavior, or blame it all on Max and Liz. The point of the Royal Four was to work together as a unit, not for it to become a royal party for two - aka Max and Tess. Max probably would have been nicer to Tess if she would have backed off and realized that a romantic relationship between them was never going to happen. But no, Tess couldn't understand that Max was in love with Liz and therefore didn't want her, so she left town. Then good old FMax landed on Liz's balcony and gave Tess a second chance in a changed future to get Max.

people can make all the excuses they want and blame other people for the things she did but the facts in the story speaks for them selves

Fmax and Fliz were desperate and too good. I don't think that it can be Max or M&L's fault if Tess didn't care about their purpose as a group and only wanted to jump into his pants. I will never understand why he was supposed to sacrifice himself. Lets give the toy to the whining girl

it was such an absurdity
no wonder why it was a failure from the very beginning.

I also think that the group treated her good enough. It's not that she made things easy for them all.
it's always both sides

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Unfortunately for Tess, she still wasn't happy in her relationship with Max and betrayed him. Be careful what you wish for and all that jazz.

true

she wanted too much especially from a guy who was supposed to die however

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Originally Posted by LindsayLovely. (View Post)

I couldn't have said it better myself.
You're exactly right.
And this is especially true of our Max + Liz.
They tried to move on, they tried to look past their love,
but they couldn't.
In the end it's all about who your heart calls for.
And for them, the winding road always led to each other.

agree. I also think that when two people are in love with each they can't move on because there's no reason for them to move on. ^^"
I mean, their love always was very reciprocal. He wanted her and she wanted him.

LindsayLovely. · 06-03-2009, 12:39 PM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

I made two animations from the van scene

she adores him

agree. I also think that when two people are in love with each they can't move on because there's no reason for them to move on. ^^"
I mean, their love always was very reciprocal. He wanted her and she wanted him.

Thos animations are gorgeous, Coccy.
You're so talented.

And yes there was no reason for them to move on, I agree.
Liz knew no matter what Future Max told her, there was still hope for them.
She always held out for him no matter what.
That's why she couldn't get very close to Sean.
Even though I did like his character and I thought it was good to show
someone else with Liz, just to only further prove that Max
is the only one her heart ultimately fits with.

madhaj · 06-03-2009, 12:59 PM

lovely animations Coccy

JBMJ · 06-03-2009, 06:50 PM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

I made two animations from the van scene

she adores him

.

Was Liz kissing Max's hand really in the script or was this ad-libbed by the actors? I say this because the kiss feels so spontaneous when you're watching the scene it's hard to imagine the writers could've specifically written something so minor.

LindsayLovely. · 06-03-2009, 06:55 PM

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Originally Posted by JBMJ (View Post)

Was Liz kissing Max's hand really in the script or was this ad-libbed by the actors? I say this because the kiss feels so spontaneous when you're watching the scene it's hard to imagine the writers could've specifically written something so minor.

I'm not sure.
But you're right it does look like Shiri just ad-libbed that.
It just looks so natural.

*Coccy* · 06-04-2009, 02:33 AM

they're always so natural with each other that it's hard to tell
i know that they kinda "helped" the writers many times by adding details on their own. that's what happens when you have a great chemistry <3
the kiss on his hand was like if she was kissing the hands that saved her life too.

I love that scene

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Originally Posted by LindsayLovely. (View Post)

[center]

Thos animations are gorgeous, Coccy.
You're so talented.

thank you <3

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And yes there was no reason for them to move on, I agree.
Liz knew no matter what Future Max told her, there was still hope for them.
She always held out for him no matter what.
That's why she couldn't get very close to Sean.
Even though I did like his character and I thought it was good to show
someone else with Liz, just to only further prove that Max
is the only one her heart ultimately fits with.

they both weren't able to and even when they tried their hearts weren't into it.

~*Sonia E.*~ · 06-04-2009, 02:54 AM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

I made two animations from the van scene

http://imgboot.com/images/ladybird14...yhandkiss1.gif

http://imgboot.com/images/ladybird14...loverkiss1.gif

she adores him

Beautiful anis Coccy, just like that scene.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

people can make all the excuses they want and blame other people for the things she did but the facts in the story speaks for them selves

Word! I believe "canon" is the gospel of Roswell. Well...if one doesn't like it they can always make believe what they want to.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

Fmax and Fliz were desperate and too good. I don't think that it can be Max or M&L's fault if Tess didn't care about their purpose as a group and only wanted to jump into his pants. I will never understand why he was supposed to sacrifice himself. Lets give the toy to the whining girl

it was such an absurdity
no wonder why it was a failure from the very beginning.

Poor Max, treated like a piece of meat to be auctioned off to the highest bidder! Liz is very lucky that Max forgave her for her lying and scheming, and still loved and wanted her.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

I also think that the group treated her good enough. It's not that she made things easy for them all.
it's always both sides

It is about both sides. The group was right to be cautious about Nasedo and Tess, and just look at what happened when they let Tess into their inner circle.

I mean she helped Max and Co. while saving her own skin too. Tess couldn't very well let Nicholas kill her, and still be able to get into Max's pants to keep up her end of the bargain.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

true

she wanted too much especially from a guy who was supposed to die however

Max did the best he could in his treatment/relationship with Tess. I mean Tess wasn't Liz, so I didn't expect Max to do romantic things and speak romantic words to her. Really...I've read so many times that Max and Liz were too cheesy and boring. Did some really expect Max to treat Tess the same way that he did Liz? That's just so hypocritical!

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

agree. I also think that when two people are in love with each they can't move on because there's no reason for them to move on. ^^"
I mean, their love always was very reciprocal. He wanted her and she wanted him.

True. Max and Liz both loved and wanted each other, they were always natural together.

*Coccy* · 06-04-2009, 10:57 AM

more animations (i just love to make them

they're often used on lj in the bio page etc)

Liz: Max, the day that you saved my life, your life just ended.
Max: No, that was the day my life began. Liz, when I was in that room, and they did what they did to me. You're what kept me alive. The thought of you. The way your eyes look into mine. Your smile. The touch of your skin. Your lips.

Max: Knowing you has made me human. Whether I die tomorrow or fifty years from now, my destiny is the same: it's you. I want to be with you, Liz. I love you.
Liz: I love you. (They kiss.)

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Originally Posted by ~*Sonia E.*~ (View Post)

Poor Max, treated like a piece of meat to be auctioned off to the highest bidder! Liz is very lucky that Max forgave her for her lying and scheming, and still loved and wanted her.

that's true. But it's M&L and they understood each other and forgave each other because they knew that it wasn't really their fault.
I also think that they learned the lesson.

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It is about both sides. The group was right to be cautious about Nasedo and Tess, and just look at what happened when they let Tess into their inner circle.

I mean she helped Max and Co. while saving her own skin too. Tess couldn't very well let Nicholas kill her, and still be able to get into Max's pants to keep up her end of the bargain.

yes, after all they were right didn't they?

as for Nicholas... is it me or it was just too weird to be casual that she didn't kill him in wipe out and then he later did nothing to her in MITC?Knowing what i know now about the deal with Kivar and how Nicholas was his ally well..this "detail" is very telling to me.

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Max did the best he could in his treatment/relationship with Tess. I mean Tess wasn't Liz, so I didn't expect Max to do romantic things and speak romantic words to her. Really...I've read so many times that Max and Liz were too cheesy and boring. Did some really expect Max to treat Tess the same way that he did Liz? That's just so hypocritical!

yes, for some M&L are cheesy and boring because they love each other and they show it, they're not afraid to show it. their love is completely canon.
Don't you know that the new trend is to love killers and "couples" where everything is just in your mind?

"i hate you, i want to kill you, i regret being with you and i ignore you" is the new romantic kind of couple

LOL

anyway some people criticize M&L but then i always see many clones of them in UC fanfictions. It's hypocrisy all the way.
I could easily read many uc fanfictions even if hate uc because they're dreamers but with different names

A common example is how people turn Tess into Liz.
Everything Tess, the real one, did in the show was saying over and over that Max was her destiny, that she was his wife, that he had to love her and said all her legends about a past life that wasn't even really theirs. She NEVER talked about the supposed antarians in danger that they had to save as a group (and this was their real purpose no? romantic things had nothing to do with it). And not only she didn't talk about their purpose as a group, in the end she even betrayed Max&Co and the antarians and she herself clearly said that Kivar wasn't her enemy and she had worked for him.
STILL, in UC fics Tess suddenly and magically is transformed into not only the woman that Max loves (with the quotes or kind of scenes that in the real story were toward Liz just like his love) but she also become the strong, sweet and brave woman who, poor her, just wanted to save her world and Max and betrayed him for this reason (and it's exactly what Liz did in the second season no? Liz tried to save her world and Max, for this reason she lied to Max and sacrificed their happiness. She had the guts to keep such a big secret and make the sacrifice for so long )
The funny thing is that her fans don't even realize that their fav character is transformed into the clone of the one they claim to hate with passion (Liz)
No wonder why, when they watch the show, they hate the writers and their opinion of the show is all messed up because what they think that happened in the story doesn't coincide then with what really happened in the canon.

It seems to me that some people really confuse M&L and their storyline with M&T and viceversa, they switch the couples. it's the funniest thing.
The real fans have all my respect no matter if i don't agree with their opinions. It's the hypocrites that i can't stand.

Fool4Love20 · 06-04-2009, 04:16 PM

Those animations are making me get teary eyed. You are so talented!

~*Sonia E.*~ · 06-04-2009, 06:04 PM

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

more animations (i just love to make them

they're often used on lj in the bio page etc)

Liz: Max, the day that you saved my life, your life just ended.
Max: No, that was the day my life began. Liz, when I was in that room, and they did what they did to me. You're what kept me alive. The thought of you. The way your eyes look into mine. Your smile. The touch of your skin. Your lips.

Max: Knowing you has made me human. Whether I die tomorrow or fifty years from now, my destiny is the same: it's you. I want to be with you, Liz. I love you.
Liz: I love you. (They kiss.)

I just love your anis and artwork Coccy! Such a beautiful scene for a beautiful couple.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

that's true. But it's M&L and they understood each other and forgave each other because they knew that it wasn't really their fault.
I also think that they learned the lesson.

I believe Max and Liz forgave each other and learned their lessons too. That's why I love them so much, and was ecstatic with their happy ending.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

yes, after all they were right didn't they?

as for Nicholas... is it me or it was just too weird to be casual that she didn't kill him in wipe out and then he later did nothing to her in MITC?Knowing what i know now about the deal with Kivar and how Nicholas was his ally well..this "detail" is very telling to me.

No, it's not just you. There was always something fishy to me with Nicholas not being disintegrated with Tess's fireball, and how he later showed up at the summit. Very telling indeed.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

yes, for some M&L are cheesy and boring because they love each other and they show it, they're not afraid to show it. their love is completely canon.

Yeah...

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

Don't you know that the new trend is to love killers and "couples" where everything is just in your mind?

"i hate you, i want to kill you, i regret being with you and i ignore you" is the new romantic kind of couple

LOL

I don't want any part of that new trend.

Give me the good old fashioned "in love" couple and I'm completely satisfied.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

anyway some people criticize M&L but then i always see many clones of them in UC fanfictions. It's hypocrisy all the way.
I could easily read many uc fanfictions even if hate uc because they're dreamers but with different names

True. There's also some CC fics where some turn their favorite characters into Max and Liz clones - it's quite funny to me. I don't read nor do I care about Max and Liz with anyone else, the show was enough for me. Thank goodness TPTB did show Max and Liz's real love for each other, even with a whole year of torture that they put them through.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

A common example is how people turn Tess into Liz.
Everything Tess, the real one, did in the show was saying over and over that Max was her destiny, that she was his wife, that he had to love her and said all her legends about a past life that wasn't even really theirs. She NEVER talked about the supposed antarians in danger that they had to save as a group (and this was their real purpose no? romantic things had nothing to do with it). And not only she didn't talk about their purpose as a group, in the end she even betrayed Max&Co and the antarians and she herself clearly said that Kivar wasn't her enemy and she had worked for him.

WORD! I'm still trying to find some episodes where Tess talked about saving Antar and her people. I want to find some concrete proof that Tess actually cared about her people and not just about sitting on a throne as queen next to king Max/Zan. Maybe I've overlooked some quotes other than the ones where Tess and Max talked about the red jello water and a rock. Even Larek/Brody mentioned Zan seeing Ava on a rock, meeting at a party, and their wedding. It was good that Max saw/heard about Zan's relationship with Ava, but how was that going to help him fight a war and save an alien race? Again, I'm glad that Max was free to choose what he wanted to do with his own life on Earth at the end. I feel that was best for Max because for the life of me I couldn't see any other option, and apparently neither did TPTB.

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

STILL, in UC fics Tess suddenly and magically is transformed into not only the woman that Max loves (with the quotes or kind of scenes that in the real story were toward Liz just like his love) but she also become the strong, sweet and brave woman who, poor her, just wanted to save her world and Max and betrayed him for this reason (and it's exactly what Liz did in the second season no? Liz tried to save her world and Max, for this reason she lied to Max and sacrificed their happiness. She had the guts to keep such a big secret and make the sacrifice for so long )
The funny thing is that her fans don't even realize that their fav character is transformed into the clone of the one they claim to hate with passion (Liz)
No wonder why, when they watch the show, they hate the writers and their opinion of the show is all messed up because what they think that happened in the story doesn't coincide then with what really happened in the canon.

So Liz is hated for trying to save Max, planets, and because Max loved her, but Tess doing the same thing is branded as a heroine, and deserving of Max's love. Okay...

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Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post)

It seems to me that some people really confuse M&L and their storyline with M&T and viceversa, they switch the couples. it's the funniest thing.
The real fans have all my respect no matter if i don't agree with their opinions. It's the hypocrites that i can't stand.

It's very funny. I'm glad that real Dreamers don't have that problem when it comes to Max and Liz.