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Old 09-28-2004, 10:34 PM
  #31
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TheCheshireKitten Buy the dvds. If you love the entire show then good. You love it. If you end up like me disappointed thats a little good as well. It will remind you of things and give you a new look on shows. Either way, Roswell will be on your mind. I myself already have season 1 on dvd. I'm hoping to get the seasons when I have the money and when they come out.

sum1

I agree about the whole desinty issue because well even I am smart enough to know that it's true. It's just the term people use so..just kind of go with it.

Also Rebel Alliance wasn't regarding Max/Tess a couple I believe. I wasn't there when the name was picked. However, I believe it was because the shippers of the couple Max/Tess were Rebeling against the majority of Roswell fans who happened to be Dreamers Max/Liz.

Also, I think Immortal Lover for Buffy/Angel is a way to say that their love will never die. I know your stance on the B/A relationship and on Angel himself. Let's not get into that. That would open up a whole new can of worms.

AlexEvans I agree, without both aspects the show would have failed. I think that it lost to much of the sci-fi aspect when moving to season 3. Season 2 was more sci-fi then season 1 but after "Destiny" I excepted things to go in that direction. I still expected the same course of blend from Season 2 in season 3. However, I don't fell I got that.

I remember watching a few episodes of Earth 2 but I can't say I really remember it.
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:12 PM
  #32
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David Nutter (who wrote the show's bible and took it with him when he left)

Thania St. John


Two great, great writers. LTLB.

I'm not surprised that they didn't get along with Katims.

I remember Earth 2. It had Rebecca Gayheart and the actress that played the one of the astronauts in Armageddon. I saw a couple episodes. They were okay.
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magic
I loved the first sixteen episodes and have a so-so relationship with the rest.

The three driving creative forces behind the first 16 left the show due to diffrences with the showrunner Jason Katims.

The three were

David Nutter (who wrote the show's bible and took it with him when he left)

Thania St. John

Emily Whitsell

When those 3 left Roswell started to decline and never recovered.
No it didn't. It actually got better later season 1 and better yet in season 2.
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Originally posted by deeprising
boringggggggggggggggggggggg show
There's plenty boring shows out there, but Roswell sure ain't one of them.
Quote:
Originally posted by AlexEvans
My strongest feelings, both love and hate, go to Roswell. It went through many metamorphoses - both for individual characters, and for the show as a whole.

The first season remains among the very best television I've ever seen (I'd rank it with S3 Buffy, S5 Angel, S1 West Wing, etc.).
S5 Angel was, for the most part, some of the worst tv I've ever seen. And considering I've seen some Stargate, that's really saying something. West Wing is a quite watchable show, but it's vastly overrated. It's not half so unique as people seem to think, too much conventional tv in many ways. Plus it depends on pretending it's realistic when actually it's nothing of the sort -whitewashed, sentimental, prettied up, contrived, etc. (And that's true of season 1, not just any other season.) Roswell, however, was most definitely some of the best tv ever, and I don't mean just the first season.
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Originally posted by AlexEvans:
It was about several things. Trying to fit in. Fighting for a normal life. And it was about three very different variations on a common theme; three relationships between humans and aliens.

Maybe Roswell could work without the first of those. Maybe it could work once the dream of normal lives was ended for good by the revelations of the S1 finale, "Destiny." But I don't think it worked very well without the second, the three human-alien relationships that developed from the beginning, each different from one another, each an essential aspect of what it is to be human, what it is to be alien, what it means to bring those things together. And certainly without both themes it could not work.
Just as well it never lost any of those themes then, isn't it?
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Originally posted by Subject:
Also Rebel Alliance wasn't regarding Max/Tess a couple I believe. I wasn't there when the name was picked. However, I believe it was because the shippers of the couple Max/Tess were Rebeling against the majority of Roswell fans who happened to be Dreamers Max/Liz.
But "Rebel Alliance" suggests the Star Wars rebellion and they were good guys, while shipping Max/Tess is eeeeevil.
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Originally posted by Subject:
Also, I think Immortal Lover for Buffy/Angel is a way to say that their love will never die. I know your stance on the B/A relationship and on Angel himself. Let's not get into that. That would open up a whole new can of worms.
You want to deny me the oppurtunity to bash B/A and Angel? Well, just as long as you know I think Angel is disgusting and "Buffy&Angel4eva" sounds to me like a horrible curse on poor Buffy.
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Last edited by sum1; 09-28-2004 at 11:31 PM
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Old 10-03-2004, 03:16 AM
  #34
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Yet another Roswell fan weighing in.

I also have been a fan of a whack of sci fi shows. Watched the original Star Trek when I was a kid. Also loved Star Trek Next Generation. Seen all of the episodes of Dr Who. Giggled at Red Dwarf. Liked Starman, Forever Knight, Highlander and even will admit to liking the original Battlestar Galactica. And definitely enjoyed Buffy.

I don't like Stargate. Never got into Andromeda. Like some of the episodes of Angel, but greatly disliked others. Same with Voyager. Liked some episodes, but didn't like others. Deep Space 9 annoyed the whatever out of me and I only watched about 10 minutes of Entreprise.

But can definitely say that Roswell... even with it's various flaws and sometimes silly whatevers... is definitely my favourite television series of all the televisions series that I have ever watched... sci fi or otherwise.

sum1: Would like to compliment you on your posts.

Kathy:

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Old 10-03-2004, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maggie aka Sarah
sum1: Would like to compliment you on your posts.
::doesn't really know how to respond::
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:16 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by sum1
::doesn't really know how to respond::
sum1: As to how to respond... just keep on posting your thoughts... as I found myself nodding in agreement with a lot of your viewpoints.

Like for example the stuff about the West Wing. I like the West Wing, but agree with you that it is over rated in many ways. In my opinion, Roswell is a better television series. But the West Wing has won and whack of Emmys and Roswell didn't even get nominated. Hey... Buffy also was an excellent television series that to my knowledge never won an Emmy. Sigh. I have the feeling that the proverbial "bar" for genre television series in relation to some forms of achieving confirmation of excellence is far higher then it is for television series such as the West Wing that pretend to be realistic but in reality really aren't.

But then again... stuff like academic conferences is happening about Buffy and I don't think that the academics are as interested in the West Wing.

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Old 10-03-2004, 11:37 AM
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The ease with which "mainstream" stuff gets acclaim while sf/fantasy/horror shows like Roswell and BTVS don't tends to make me more than a tad annoyed. Some of the very best tv has been on stuff like Roswell, Buffy and other such shows (Babylon 5 and X-Files come to mind), but you won't convince the Emmies that. Which kinda makes the Emmies (and similar viewpoints) something in the way of meaningless, far as I'm concerned.

As for the West Wing, it's quite watchable, but it's really just entertainment posing as art, while I'd be inclined to say Buffy and Roswell kinda manage to be the reverse.

As for Angel, glad to hear you've your doubts about it. I've found it to be massively disappointing for a Buffy-related show (at least from season 2 on). Seeing as you like Forever Knight, may I assume you'd agree Nick Knight is a far better vampire than Angel? Geraint Wyn Davies did an impressive job with the part.

Roswell stands out particularly in how close it brings the audience to the characters.
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I'm a Rebel as Max/Tess fan. Like many of us and some others who are not Rebels we believe that the entire story of Tess being evil was pulled out of nowhere. In an attempt to make Tess "evil" because the show was ending or so we thought. Because it would please a lot of Tess haters who are/were the majority of fans.

I also liked that Michael embraced his humanity. However, I can not agree with their choices not to engage in the reason they were alive. To fight a war. How could anyone just turn their back on their blood family and leave their people to suffer in a war. They betrayed everything about the show. If they never would have brought up the whole civil war and the goal of winning that war. Then I wouldn't have mind that the show took the we just want to not be discovered and live on Earth. However, they did metion it and so it needed to be explored. You can't just bring up a war, a reason for being made in a sci-fi show and then just abandon that entire way of thinking.

Of Sci-Fi shows, Roswell was one of the worst in history. I'm not judging based on one or two seasons. However the overall story of the show. It was just disappointing. For me a "true" tv series is not a bunch of short hour long stories. But a long story/movie that can only truely be judged after the end of the show. Each season is like a chapter of the story and each episode a paragraph. You can't just reset what was done the paragraph before but evlove from what has already been written. They didn't do that. They just dropped the alien aspect of the show.


I didn't mind Angel the last seasons. However Roswell was one of the worst and betrayed shows to ever grace the screen of tv. The first season was good and built up. Season 2 started out good and then was turned to crap by making Tess evil after they had stressed her importance. Season 3? Well, that is just dead to me. The entire season made no sense.

The writers betrayed the basic personalities of the characters of almost everyone on the show. The only one that I could see remaining true to themselves was Michael. I would say Alex as well but he wasn't around for the entire show.

ITA! Turning Tess evil made no sense and came out of no where. And Isabel marry Jesse was dumb as well. Where did he come from?
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:20 PM
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I would like to add that they put things into the show with out any closure like the Dupes, Future, Max, and the Granolith which turned out to be a disappointment.
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Old 10-03-2004, 09:42 PM
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Tess was a creep from the beginning, her turning out to be evil fitted fine. As for Jesse, I'll admit it was dumb to have him marry Isabel, he was way too good for her.

And I would have liked to have seen more of the Dupes, or at least Rath, who was downright cool.
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:49 PM
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I love roswell except for turning Tess evil that was so crap!
Anyhows I love Maria! she rules!
I found the centering it on Liz and Max thing depressing they just weren't very likeable IMO!
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:05 PM
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I love roswell except for turning Tess evil that was so crap!
Anyhows I love Maria! she rules!
I found the centering it on Liz and Max thing depressing they just weren't very likeable IMO!
I found Liz and Max plenty likable (though Max could be a REAL pain sometimes) and as for Tess... I found her rotten from the beginning, so revealing her to be such a villain fitted fine with me. I just wish they'd killed her off at the end of season 2, I SO wanted Alex avenged.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bronson

I would like to add that they put things into the show with out any closure like the Dupes, Future, Max, and the Granolith which turned out to be a disappointment.
It's too bad that they came up with so many good ideas and didn't flesh them out as much as I would have liked.


Maggie: Nice to see you here!
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Old 10-11-2004, 06:59 AM
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sum1 -Even though I know you hate Tess and found her to be evil. You have to admitt that the basic storyline of how she became "evil" is lacking. I mean here she had chances in the past to betray Max to Kivar. Yet she didn't do it. Put aside the basic feelings you may have for the character and just think about it.

I know, that you may think that I am being bias here also because I like Tess. That's true, I do like Tess. However, making her just "offically evil" like that made no sense story wise. If they would have built it up to a point where even Tess fans were questioning her motives and then reveal this deal. Along with Nasedo's motives as well. Then things would have been fine. In fact I may have even feel for her more.

In fact, they could have spun her out to be Kivar's little sister. I know the fans would have loved it then. I always thought that they should have made Tess Michael's sister like they had planned originaly.

So many things that could have been done. However, from looking over posts on Roswell board. The majority of any shipper group, fan group, or otherwise found Roswell to be lacking in the end.
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Old 10-11-2004, 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Subject
sum1 -Even though I know you hate Tess and found her to be evil. You have to admitt that the basic storyline of how she became "evil" is lacking. I mean here she had chances in the past to betray Max to Kivar. Yet she didn't do it. Put aside the basic feelings you may have for the character and just think about it.
I disagree with the whole she-had-a-chance-to-betray-and-she-didn't argument. I think it would have screwed up her plan if she'd betrayed earlier. She didn't want to generally betray at any old time, she wanted her kid conceived and the info she needed, etc. She needed to work with the others until the time was right. And don't forget, the deal was for her to bring them back with her, not betray them while they were still on Earth. I think the fact that she didn't do more betraying earlier ultimately means nothing for the issue.

And I don't think she "became" evil. I think she was a ruthless, ends-justify-the-means type from the beginning, too much Nasedo influence, for one thing (even if she wasn't as much that way as Nasedo was). Plus I think she also had a very selfish, self-indulgent, self-serving side and a lack of sufficient morality. That's the impression she made on me from the begninning and kept making on me and she never did enough to change it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I know, that you may think that I am being bias here also because I like Tess. That's true, I do like Tess. However, making her just "offically evil" like that made no sense story wise. If they would have built it up to a point where even Tess fans were questioning her motives and then reveal this deal. Along with Nasedo's motives as well. Then things would have been fine. In fact I may have even feel for her more.
To be honest, yeah, no offense, but I do feel this is about you being biased. No offence, but I feel Tess fans dislike Tess being a villan and so want to invalidate her being a villain, so they can kinda deny her being a villain. I think the whole argument against how the story was managed is mostly just a pretext for invalidating it.

Yeah, maybe the show could have managed it a bit better, but I think it was managed well enough. I think it made quite enough sense the way it was done. And sorry, but I think a lot of Tess fans wouldn't have doubted her motives even if the show had done a lot more to build it up beforehand. I'm way too used to fans of shows often seeing what they want to see and not what they don't want to see. (Which is one reason I take a very high degree of care to examine things carefully in shows that are important to me, so I won't end up making the same mistake.)

And I liked Nasedo in some ways and found him a good character, but I never stopped questioning his motives. He was too much a ruthless ends-justify-the-means guy for me to ever be easy about him. Or anybody he raised, for that matter.

I never accepted Tess in the first place, never trusted her, always felt she was going to turn out bad. In a whole lot of ways, she didn't feel right to me. And as much as it actually was a surprise how she turned out to be the bad guy, I thought that was good too -nice twist. Ultimately, I think any fan who accepted and trusted her made a mistake, a mistake they could have avoided, and set themselves up for a hard fall. I'm sorry, but I feel that's the fault of Tess fans, not the show. (No offence mant, that's just how I feel about this.)
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Originally posted by Subject
I always thought that they should have made Tess Michael's sister like they had planned originaly.
Poor Michael!!!
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Originally posted by Subject
[So many things that could have been done. However, from looking over posts on Roswell board. The majority of any shipper group, fan group, or otherwise found Roswell to be lacking in the end.
Yeah well, majorities are often wrong. The majority of people in the west (USA, Europe, etc, not the "wild west") once felt racism was right (some would say the majority still do to an extent), but that didn't make their views right. Sorry if that's an extreme comparison, but I'm trying to point out that just because a view is a majority view doesn't in any way mean it's necessarily correct. People once thought the world was flat, didn't make it so. (Heck, some people STILL believe the world is flat, but then some people ship B/A, so... )

Sure, some things could have been done better in Roswell, but ultimately I find the show to be a lot less lacking, a lot more satisfactory, than the vast majority of shows. And that's the the vast majority of good shows I mean. Frankly, I think a lot of fans are getting too caught up in Roswell's faults, or what they feel are Roswell's faults, and are missing how important and significant its strengths are.

I feel the majority of tv is crap and some is ok, some is good, some is even great, and a very small proportion is really great. And I think Roswell counts in that very small proportion, far better than the vast majority of tv. So I figure if we have to stomach people passing off all sorts of crap as acceptable tv, we shouldn't be quibbling over the faults of the rare few true gems.

(Look, let's face it, you're never going to get anywhere with me on this topic. )
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