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Old 09-27-2004, 01:08 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
Kivar went to them. They didn't even try to go to him. I call that either the dumbest thinking for a leader or that they abandoned their people.
They hardly had a lot of oppurtunities open to them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
If Season 3 became season 4 and they worked it to a point where things made sense. Sense for them to give up on the war, for Tess/Nasedo to betray them, ect. Then I would have a completely different view of the show overall.
Makes ok sense to me the way it is.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I agree, they have ever right to lead their own lives. However, when your life and what you do/or say(basicly in position if greta power) will affect others in such a profound way. You have a responsiblity to the people. That can't be ignored.
Great power my a$$. Their predecessors on Antar had great power but the pod squad were just a bunch of kids. They didn't rule over anything.
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Originally posted by Subject
Do you watch The West Wing? Remember when the Presidents daughter was kidnapped? He envoked the 25th. Removing himself from power because he knew he might not act in the interest for his people. That's a leader.
Well actually, no it's not. That's a guy on a tv show that pretends to be realistic while actually being desperately whitewashed, prettied up and sentimental.
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Originally posted by Subject
Her children were the leaders of their people. To say that they were not all ready involved is uncanny. All of us are trapped by something. I'm many different races of human. Do I blame my parents for this? No, I move past it. I deal if people have a problem it's their problem.
Your parents didn't artificially create you from cloned material mixed with material from a species your species isn't normally capable of interbreeding with and send you out to another world to be pawns in a political plan. Your parents didn't create you from the gentic material of their dead children to use you for a cause. You parents didn't make you something unnatural and not normally possible for your species, something by nature conflicted beyond what's normally possible for either species and out of place in the universe.

And no, her children weren't the leaders of their people. They were the partial clones of the dead leaders of their people. They were a bunch of kids trying to find their way. They'd never even been on Antar.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I never tried to force you to think anything. I was just stating my opinion. And it is my opinion that Roswell overall was bad.
Stating it endlessly and never letting it go, like nobody on this thread is allowed to actually like the show. That's forcing enough, too much for my tastes.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
The Stargate threads are for appreciation. This was opened by a poster who said and I quote. "Ah! I hate/love tv series.... " Since this is the Sci-Fi board and we have a Roswell board. I assume that this is a place to not only talk about what you like about the show but also what you disliked about it.
The thread starter said they hated Roswell only in the sense that liked it so much that it made them spend too much time watching tv. They said "I hate/love tv series.... They are so cool, but makes me stay to much time in the front of the tv watching them". They didn't mean "hate" seriously. They didn't mean hate in the sense that you do. So no, this is an appreciation thread too. And yeah, there's a Roswell board. It's full of group threads and shipper threads. I tried posting there and gave up. I want to just discuss the show, no group stuff or shipper specialization or any other complications. But that doesn't mean I want be deluged with somebody's hatred of the show and have to spend my whole time defending it. You're making things unecessarily unpleasant for me here and I really don't appreciate that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I know that everyone doesn't feel like me. It would be a borning place if everyone did. I have never tried to stop you from feeling a certain way. Again, I am only expressing my opinion. You are free to do so as well. I would never try to deny anyone that basic right. I'm sorry if you felt that I was trying to "control" your way of thinking.
You've been drowning me under your hatred for the show. I thought I could post happily here about the show, but instead I get bombarded with somebody's insistence that the show was awful and I end up having to spend my time defending it. As for it being boring if everybody agreed, disagreeing is one thing, pouring out your implacable hated of the show non-stop on its appreciation thread so that anybody who likes Roswell has to spend all their posting time defending it... that's something else entirely.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
The same could be said about you view on the show. Or anyone's view for that matter.
Not true. You're insisting the show is about the war and that the war is the pod squad's reason for being. I'm saying the show isn't restricted to being about that and has a wider focus and that the pod squad's existence isn't just about the war. Your view limits the show and the characters to something narrower than I feel they are. Hence I feel your view is narrower than mine.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
in the first episode it was about finding their alien past. Ever since photos with the sliver hand print was seen by Liz. They found that past and learned their purpose. So the war and "destiny" was a huge driving force and the most source of sf for the show. They didn't have to make it a war but they did. Because wars get attention. They are important.
Doesn't make the show about the war, it's about a lot more than that. The war is just part of the picture. And finding their way as human beings strikes me as plenty important too.
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Originally posted by Subject
You can't fix feeling alienated some times when you come from different worlds. You can only try to understand and accept that fact. That you will always be different, special.
Not true. When alienation is serious and potentially very damaging, something needs to be done about it. And making connections with people is an important route to dealing with such problems. And let's not forget, the pod squad were human too, not just alien. They'd a place in this world. They belonged here as much (if not more) as on Antar. They belonged as much with humans as with aliens.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I would agree with that but they introduced a war into the mix. They didn't have to make it a war. It could have been something different. They could have been abandoned or whatever. You can still make connections with people while trying to help save your people in a war. Especially if you are the last hope for your people. Not only yours but all of the Royal Families of your system.
Their system is our system, their planet is Earth. At least as much as it is Anatar, anyway. And humans are as much their people as Antarians are.

And no, they couldn't live human lives or make human connections if they gave everything to the war. And they didn't abandon the war. At the end of season 2 they found out that if they'd gone back with Tess, they'd have been betrayed and killed. Then Tess used the Granilith to leave and after that they didn't have much oppurtunity to do anything about the war. And when Kivar presented them with an oppurtunity they did something significant.
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Last edited by sum1; 09-27-2004 at 01:27 AM
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Old 09-27-2004, 01:29 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by sum1
But that doesn't mean I want be deluged with somebody's hatred of the show and have to spend my whole time defending it. You're making things unecessarily unpleasant for me here and I really don't appreciate that.
Again, I state that I am sorry for the way you feel.


Quote:
Originally posted by sum1
You've been drowning me under your hatred for the show. I thought I could post happily here about the show, but instead I get bombarded with somebody's insistence that the show was awful and I end up having to spend my time defending it.
Again, I do not hate the show. I am only disappointed in the direction that was taken with it.

Quote:
Originally posted by sum1
As for it being boring if everybody agreed, disagreeing is one thing, pouring out your implacable hated of the show non-stop on its appreciation thread so that anybody who likes Roswell has to spend all their posting time defending it... that's something else entirely.
Again, I loved Roswell, but was disappointed in the direction that it took.

Just because someone doesn't like the direction that the show was taken doesn't mean that they have hatred for the show. It means that they care enough about it to care if it was ruined in their eyes.

I'm sorry that you don't like it when someone disagrees with you. I stated Let's just agree to disagree. To me that would have been the end of this discussion.

Again, Let's just agree here to disagree. Obviously this discussion is making you feel bad and I don't want that. Also obviously we will never agree on things about Roswell like I said several posts ago. So again for the 3rd time please. Let's just agree here to disagree on this issue.

I like season one and most of season 2 if you would like to talk about that.

Last edited by Subject; 09-27-2004 at 01:39 AM
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Old 09-27-2004, 01:48 AM
  #18
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Fav SCIFI TV Series.....Starting with Roswell

Ok, we can't have an outright Roswell thread, since this isn't the roswell board, but we can have a Favorite Scifi TV series, featuring Roswell.
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:03 AM
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So this is now a topic for talking about any sci-fi show that we really liked?

Sorry, I just wasn't really clear.

If so, I really liked First Wave. The idea of it the struggle of good vs. evil Gua vs. human. Yet they blended the lines of good and evil. Joshua was Gua for instance yet he was good in my eyes.
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:08 AM
  #20
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Originally posted by Subject
Again, I loved Roswell, but was disappointed in the direction that it took.

Just because someone doesn't like the direction that the show was taken doesn't mean that they have hatred for the show. It means that they care enough about it to care if it was ruined in their eyes.
That's not the impression you've given me. You haven't gone on about your love of Roswell, only about how awful you think it was.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I'm sorry that you don't like it when someone disagrees with you.
You weren't just disagreeing, you were coming onto a thread I feel was an appreciation thread and deluging me with non-stop attack on the show the thread was for. Effectively making the thread all about what you dislike about Roswell.
Quote:
Originally posted by Subject
I stated Let's just agree to disagree. To me that would have been the end of this discussion.
You said that, but it didn't look to me like you really meant it. From your overall post, "let's just agree to disagree" seemed to me to really mean "let me state my anti-Roswell views without you responding". If you really want to agree to disagree and drop the topic, then feel free to do so.
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I like season one and most of season 2 if you would like to talk about that.
But not about Tess or Nasedo?
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Old 09-27-2004, 02:22 AM
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Re: Fav SCIFI TV Series.....Starting with Roswell

Quote:
Originally posted by Cryostar
Ok, we can't have an outright Roswell thread, since this isn't the roswell board, but we can have a Favorite Scifi TV series, featuring Roswell.
How about an INright Roswell thread?

Ok, thanks.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:33 PM
  #22
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Killed Kivar?

They pushed him through a transportation portal leading back to his royal palace, causing him to lose control of the human he was possessing.

In my experience, pushing people through doorways, or into a car, whatever, doesn't kill them.

But hey. This is season 3 we're talking about. So, whatever.

I fully agree with Subject regarding the destruction of the characters. It's very sad, and a very real betrayal.

Sum1, you make an excellent point about the humanity of the Pod Squad. I agree with you They're as much human as alien, and living among humanity seems a valid choice to me.

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Old 09-27-2004, 11:42 PM
  #23
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I can't say that i watched Roswell all that much, though I hear it was pretty cool.

First wave I caught a bit of, especially after Traci Lords started on it.
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
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But not about Tess or Nasedo?
I don't anything that good would come of that.

As for Season 1. The best thing to me about that season was the relationship between Max and Liz. It was so beautiful even after I started thinking about Max/Tess. Max and Liz had a pure caring feeling for each other. I moved and didn't catch Roswell until I got cable back when it was in reruns. The only that kept me going those months without cable was rewatching the first episodes end. When Max went to talk to Liz. I watched that scene over and over again. That season between them was one of the best teen relationships that I've seen.

First Wave was still good with Traci on it. I liked how they introduced Raven Nation. That preview was killer. "We are Raven Nation. A hidden army in a seceret war. Cade Foster was our prophet. What he exposed inspired us to unite. But now the invasion is going down. And Cade's methods are not enough.... We're not exposing them......we're takin em out. "
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:03 AM
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Yikes.

Another Roswell fan weighing in here. I've loved plenty of different sci-fi stories (Star Trek, B5, Andromeda, Stargate, and now Atlantis, to name just a few), but Roswell has a special place in my heart. I love the premise, the reincarnated alien royalty caught between two worlds, the "who's inhuman now?" aspect of the story. The writing was frequently excellent, the actors made me care about the characters and feel for them (or, in the case of Agent Pierce, hate their guts ), and the messy experience of growing up (and screwing up) was portrayed realistically, with an alien twist.

That's not to say I don't have problems with the show. I have problems with virtually any show I watch, whether it's storylines, lack of continuity, plots that seemingly drop from the sky, or one of Roswell's biggest problems, wonderful storylines that simply weren't followed up on. But for me, my quibbles don't even begin to outweigh my affection for this story.
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Old 09-28-2004, 04:42 AM
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I actually started watching this on sci-fi, and am now thinking of eventually picking up the DVDs. I've enjoyed what I've seen.
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Old 09-28-2004, 04:29 PM
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Michael: Brendan made him both the most human and the most alien of the aliens. Real impressive job.

The "destiny" thing: It wasn't really destiny. "Destiny" implies something set by fate or some sort of higher power. But the pod squad's so-called "destiny" was just what was planned for them by the people who gentically engineered them. And they were made from the combined material of the original royal 4 plus 4 humans. The original humans had their own existences, with no alien "destiny". The original royal 4 were Antarian royalty, but there's nothing to show they had any special "destiny" set in stone. They just had certain positions and had certain things happen to them. Combining those human and alien elements doesn't create people with some special destiny, it's just that the people who engineered the pod squad had plans to use them for something specific and for them to do certain things. But there's nothing to say that's the pod squad's true destiny. The genetic materials they were made of had an existence separate from what their engineers had planned for them, so the pod squad had an existence separate from their engineers' plans. Their true destiny was their own, not that chosen for them by their engineers. The planned destiny (the war, Max/Tess, etc) might have been their true destiny, but equally it might not have been. We'll never know what their true destiny was. All we know is that the plans of the Antarians who engineered the pod squad by no means necessarily constitute a definite destiny.

The term "Rebel Alliance" as applied to Max/Tess: I'm often a tad puzzled by the names people use for ships. For example, Buffy/Angel is called "Immortal Lovers". But Buffy isn't immortal and that's one of the reasons Angel broke up with her and said they couldn't be together. And Spike is just as immortal as Angel is. Just one of many examples of puzzling ship names. In the case of Max/Tess being called "the Rebel Alliance", well, to me Liz/Max seems more the real rebel alliance, a rebellion against the plans that had been made for the royal 4, a union between a hybrid half-alien and a full human. True rebellion. Heck, it was even started by Max rebelling against the rigid secrecy and isolation he, Michael and Isabel had adhered to for a decade. Liz/Max was a rebellion from the very outset and from its foundations up. Max/Tess was a union planned by the pod squad's genetic engineers and based on a royal marriage and that doesn't seem much like a rebellion to me. That's the establishment, Liz/Max is the rebellion.
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I actually started watching this on sci-fi, and am now thinking of eventually picking up the DVDs. I've enjoyed what I've seen.
Worth picking them up, Roswell was a great show, one of the truly unique ones.
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Old 09-28-2004, 04:52 PM
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I loved the first sixteen episodes and have a so-so relationship with the rest.


The three driving creative forces behind the first 16 left the show due to diffrences with the showrunner Jason Katims.

The three were

David Nutter (who wrote the show's bible and took it with him when he left)

Thania St. John

Emily Whitsell


When those 3 left Roswell started to decline and never recovered.
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Old 09-28-2004, 05:19 PM
  #29
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avp

boringggggggggggggggggggggg show
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:54 PM
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Anyone else remember Earth 2? That was good. And the setting of a new colony is a hugely underutilized type of science fiction.

My strongest feelings, both love and hate, go to Roswell. It went through many metamorphoses - both for individual characters, and for the show as a whole.

The first season remains among the very best television I've ever seen (I'd rank it with S3 Buffy, S5 Angel, S1 West Wing, etc.). It was about several things. Trying to fit in. Fighting for a normal life. And it was about three very different variations on a common theme; three relationships between humans and aliens.

Maybe Roswell could work without the first of those. Maybe it could work once the dream of normal lives was ended for good by the revelations of the S1 finale, "Destiny." But I don't think it worked very well without the second, the three human-alien relationships that developed from the beginning, each different from one another, each an essential aspect of what it is to be human, what it is to be alien, what it means to bring those things together. And certainly without both themes it could not work.

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