Sci-Fi/Fantasy - The Paranormal: Hauntings, Ghosts, Mediums and the Unexplained! #1 - Page 4

clueless01 · 09-12-2008, 08:13 PM

Hey, what do you think about the James Randi $1million prize for anyone who can prove supernatural elements exist? To me the fact that psychics aren't willing to undergo the test speaks volumes. But, I was just curious of your opinion as someone who definitely (correct me if I'm wrong on that) believes in psychics.

Challenge Info�-�James Randi Educational Foundation

There's a link to a forum where they discuss the applicants tests and stuff. Interesting for a read.

**Melika** · 09-12-2008, 08:21 PM

Well I also believe in the statement:

"Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there."

I mean the same can be challenged to God.

You can't see him, so how do you know he exists. Same sort of situation IMO.

There are people who try to make a fool of the paranormal, but it exists, whether you believe in it or not.

But maybe the technical device or type of camera needed to record it just hasn't been invented yet.

I think that Psychics won't do his 'test' because they feel, they have nothing to prove to someone like him, he's made up his mind and any proof they have won't matter, he's a non-believer and for years has been trying to embarrass the paranormal field.

clueless01 · 09-12-2008, 09:43 PM

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"Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there."

I guess my problem with that is that while that statement is not necessarily wrong, that doesn't really, to me, give a reason to believe in something. I mean I can't see a blue polka dot monster standing next to me, but that doesn't mean it's not there, but that statement gives the blue polka dot monster the same credibility as a spirit guide guiding me. What I'm trying to say is that while not 'seeing' something may not be reason to disbelieve, it's also not reason to believe.

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I mean the same can be challenged to God.

You can't see him, so how do you know he exists. Same sort of situation IMO.

No, you're right, it is a similar situation. The difference being that God is a more widely (much more widely) accepted belief that is so ingrained into society. And that doesn't give it any extra credibility, necessarily, but it does explain why more people do believe.

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I think that Psychics won't do his 'test' because they feel, they have nothing to prove to someone like him, he's made up his mind and any proof they have won't matter, he's a non-believer and for years has been trying to embarrass the paranormal field.

I think that if people truly believe in their craft, then you'd think they'd want to prove to people (not the test organiser, necessarily, but just people all over the world in general) that they are not full of it, or just out for financial gain. And I think that there's nothing wrong with skepticism, and that if people can't deal with it then they give the impression that they need to protect their 'belief' or 'psychic ability' from being proven false. I mean, ultimately the burden of proof lies on the claimant, so if they want people to believe them, they should submit their abilities through these tests. I mean, personally, unless someone does and it's proven through a scientific test, I cannot see myself believing. Unless, of course, I have an "encounter" myself.

**Melika** · 09-12-2008, 10:24 PM

I understand your comments, they make sense. It's nice to be able to discuss to the varying opinions in detail and to be challenged in my opinions! I'm loving this.

Although, the comment about the polka dot monster thing kind of threw me, I mean i understand the comparison and the point, but logic tells you that there really is no polka dot monster, I feel so strongly about the paranormal because paranormal phenomena has been going on for hundreds of years with no real explanation or real proof.

For the most part a lot of it is based on witness accounts.

But the main thing that always comes back to me is, if we as human beings on this planet think we are the only source of life in this universe, we are completely stupid and naive. Why would we be the only planet with life. It just doesn't make sense.

I've often had this debate with my Dad, he's a big sci-fi believer into X-Files/Star-Trek, so psychic phenomena is an interest for him as well. But in this life, people often question what is the point of life, and we sometimes kid around about, how do we know we're not the organisms sitting in a petrie dish being examined.

I mean I know that's quite an out there idea, but it does make you think with all these reports of 'alien abductions' and such, how do we know that they are not checking in on their 'experiments'.

Again, it's an out there idea, but those are the kinds of things I do think about at times, I know there's no proof for it, but just the freedom to let my mind wonder is an extraordinary thing.

clueless01 · 09-13-2008, 12:22 AM

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I understand your comments, they make sense. It's nice to be able to discuss to the varying opinions in detail and to be challenged in my opinions! I'm loving this.

That's good.

I'm enjoying it too.

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Although, the comment about the polka dot monster thing kind of threw me, I mean i understand the comparison and the point, but logic tells you that there really is no polka dot monster, I feel so strongly about the paranormal because paranormal phenomena has been going on for hundreds of years with no real explanation or real proof.

Logic does tell you that there's no blue polka dot monster, but to me the same logic tells you that there's no spirit guides/ghosts/other paranormal activity. I know that people have been recounting paranormal experiences since for ever, and the same can't be said for the blue polka dot monster, but just because someone else thinks that there's paranormal phenomena, that doesn't make me more inclined to believe it. I mean, people all over have a myriad of different views on the unexplained, but just because one other person, or indeed a hundred thousand think that there is a certain paranormal activity doesn't make me believe it any more. I don't base my beliefs on what some other person believes. If that makes any sense.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean when you say that you feel so strongly because it's been going on for so long with no real explanations or proof. You believe it because it has no proof?

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But the main thing that always comes back to me is, if we as human beings on this planet think we are the only source of life in this universe, we are completely stupid and naive. Why would we be the only planet with life. It just doesn't make sense.

When it comes to other planets with life, my logic says that the chance of their being other life is too big of a chance to discount. And so, I do definitely believe in the possibility of their being other planets with life, but I cannot say that I definitively believe either way.

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I mean I know that's quite an out there idea, but it does make you think with all these reports of 'alien abductions' and such, how do we know that they are not checking in on their 'experiments'.

Again, it's an out there idea, but those are the kinds of things I do think about at times, I know there's no proof for it, but just the freedom to let my mind wonder is an extraordinary thing.

Well, exactly, I figure there's no harm in considering all possible explanations for our being. For some reason as humans we want to know where we came from, and probably the bigger question, why? I don't see any harm in considering any and all possibilities, no matter how weird or wacky. If nothing else, it expands our thinking. I don't see how that can be a bad thing.

**Melika** · 09-13-2008, 02:12 AM

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I'm not sure if I understand what you mean when you say that you feel so strongly because it's been going on for so long with no real explanations or proof. You believe it because it has no proof?

Well i didn't add the part where I posted a page back or so my childhood experiences with the little boy named David.

Because of personal experience, I believe in it strongly.

clueless01 · 09-13-2008, 06:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Ms_Melika (View Post)

Well i didn't add the part where I posted a page back or so my childhood experiences with the little boy named David.

Because of personal experience, I believe in it strongly.

Oh, okay, sorry, I just didn't understand what you were saying. But, yeah, it makes sense that you believe because of your personal experiences with it. For me, I don't believe just based on other people's experiences or beliefs, but if I were to have a significant enough experience for myself, that would, quite probably, sway my beliefs.

**Melika** · 09-13-2008, 06:24 PM

And like we had discussed in the beginning of the thread, if you go looking for it, I don't think it would happen.

clueless01 · 09-13-2008, 08:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Ms_Melika (View Post)

And like we had discussed in the beginning of the thread, if you go looking for it, I don't think it would happen.

exactly. Ultimately, your mind will show you what you want to see, which is why I think you've got to be careful when saying that a certain experience was definitely of the paranormal, because I think it's way more likely that it's your mind playing with you.

I don't think that I'm going to have any paranormal experiences, and if I do, I would try and explain it away logically first, and I would have a tough time actually believing it to be paranormal, because I would have to discount all possible logical explanations first. Even then, I'd probably be thinking that, "it was probably just [insert logical reasoning here] but there's the outside chance that it was something else altogether..."

**Melika** · 09-13-2008, 08:46 PM

Even though you search for the logical explanation, I wouldn't want to discount that fact that it could be or is paranormal.

That doesn't mean that every strange thing that happens is paranormal, but when you've had personal experiences dealing with paranormal, like I have, you have a feeling about it and just know, if that makes sense.

clueless01 · 09-13-2008, 09:01 PM

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Even though you search for the logical explanation, I wouldn't want to discount that fact that it could be or is paranormal.

I wouldn't discount it. But, it'd have to be pretty darn convincing for me to think the paranormal explanation is more likely than a logical one.

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That doesn't mean that every strange thing that happens is paranormal, but when you've had personal experiences dealing with paranormal, like I have, you have a feeling about it and just know, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. feelings are incredibly powerful thing, and while sometimes they can mislead, I think more often, they're the most honest thing we have to judge by.

**Melika** · 09-13-2008, 09:10 PM

I guess I'm also more a believer, not just because I've experienced the paranormal, but because it happened when I was a child. So I wasn't 'brainwashed' so to speak with ideas at that time.

For me the proof was describing what that Craigflower school house looked like without ever having been inside. To this day I still have never set foot inside (It's a museum now).

But I was able to describe to my parents what the house looked like, and they looked up the official site on the internet, the one I linked to a page back and it was as I had desribed, so IMO, if it wasn't a paranormal experience, how do you logically explain how I knew what that house looked like you know.

I could also describe smells from the house, so things like that led me to other thoughts that maybe I had a past life in that house.

Just because of these moments in my childhood, I've been fascinated with the topic of paranormal activity and believe in it's existence. But proving it's existence is even more difficult.

You can catch something on a camera, and there's always going to be someone who says, they 'doctored' the tape or something you know.

clueless01 · 09-14-2008, 08:47 PM

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For me the proof was describing what that Craigflower school house looked like without ever having been inside. To this day I still have never set foot inside (It's a museum now).
But I was able to describe to my parents what the house looked like, and they looked up the official site on the internet, the one I linked to a page back and it was as I had desribed, so IMO, if it wasn't a paranormal experience, how do you logically explain how I knew what that house looked like you know.

Yeah. from what you've told me, it does sound really rather strange.

So, do your parents 'believe' in the paranormal, too? Or is it just you. Whenever I mention aliens, my family's pretty much like, oh that's Anna, being weird again. Her and her theories. Lol. I don't mind, it's all lighthearted, well not all, but most, I understand why people don't believe or don't want to believe though.

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You can catch something on a camera, and there's always going to be someone who says, they 'doctored' the tape or something you know.

That's very true, and that's why I feel hesistant in believing someone (whether they're saying it's true or false) because you never know what their agenda could be. But, unfortunately, you can't rely on experiencing everything yourself, so you have to make some kind of a call based on other people's evalautions, The main thing is sorting out who you believe and checking out what their biases are.

**Melika** · 09-14-2008, 09:40 PM

My parents believe in the paranormal, and I think for them their beliefs became stronger with the Craigflower thing.

It's difficult for a lot of people to believe in something they don't understand, I mean there is not real logical explanation for paranormal activity and some follow the statement:

"Seeing is believing"

So for a lot of skeptics it's either they see it or they don't and if they don't then it doesn't exist.

Which is sort of sad because to think of the possibilities of the paranormal. For me, it's a comfort knowing that there is more to life after death, that your spirit goes on to another life, at least that is my beliefs.

But if someone else doesn't believe in my beliefs or opinions, it doesn't make them any less real.

It's such a difficult topic to retain an open mind in because of all the possibilities.

clueless01 · 09-18-2008, 10:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Ms_Melika (View Post)

My parents believe in the paranormal, and I think for them their beliefs became stronger with the Craigflower thing.

It's difficult for a lot of people to believe in something they don't understand, I mean there is not real logical explanation for paranormal activity and some follow the statement:

"Seeing is believing"

So for a lot of skeptics it's either they see it or they don't and if they don't then it doesn't exist.

That line of thinking does make more sense to me, it's just that if there's no reason to believe it, then why should we?

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Which is sort of sad because to think of the possibilities of the paranormal. For me, it's a comfort knowing that there is more to life after death, that your spirit goes on to another life, at least that is my beliefs.

I get that it's a comfort. It's seems like a nice thing to believe in. My personal beliefs don't follow that though.