[Hannah ere *mwah*]

I loved that episode! Not sure about the Arthur/Gwen parts, cos im not keen on the ship and that episode was pretty much all about them

[.:DoDs:.]

Eek, ok, i'll skip this episode!

[Hannah ere *mwah*]

No dont skip it, It was so worth watching! There was just quite a bit of gwen/arthur parts which is pretty much inevitable.

[collide]

Aww, I loved the episode! I loved Arthur/Gwen but the episode was pretty funny in general.

ETA: I do not see how Arthur/Gwen are being shoved down our throats. They had short but very significant signs that showed us the writers were leading down to this point. The Poisoned Chalice, Moment of Truth, To Kill the King and the season finale to name a few.

[jules!]

Originally Posted by collide (View Post) Aww, I loved the episode! I loved Arthur/Gwen but the episode was pretty funny in general. ETA: I do not see how Arthur/Gwen are being shoved down our throats. They had short but very significant signs that showed us the writers were leading down to this point. The Poisoned Chalice, Moment of Truth, To Kill the King and the season finale to name a few.

yeah i agree.I think they are just moving a bit fast but cant wait to see how this will develop.havent sen thsi epsiode yet but will maybe this week

[starryeyed15]

Arthur/Gwen is NOT being shoved down the viewers throat. It's been there since the latter half of series 1. And they may have rushed things a bit with their relationship, but I think they're putting it on the backburner now because Arthur feels that he really can't do anything about it until he becomes king.

Guh. I got butterflies when he kissed her. So amazing and romantic! With a hint of awkward. LOL.

Besides the amazing A/G scenes, this episode was wonderful. Especially because Arthur learned a lesson and realised that humility was very important to have has a future king. I love that.

[.:DoDs:.]

Ok I watched! The best part was Arthur and the chiken Yeah, I didn't like the episode at all, things are going way to quick... and sorry for saying this, A/G is beeing too forced... I wish at least they develop a bit... It's looking like H/G from Harry Potter, coming out of nowhere since 3 episodes ago, Arthur didn't even know who Gwen was Arthur only notices her in the season finale! Its not belivable that now he's in love, I don't buy it!
But... how amazing was the trailer for the next episode? Those 30 seconds were much better than the 43 minutes of the episde! Can't wait for next week!!!

[Swamy]

Originally Posted by starryeyed15 (View Post) Arthur/Gwen is NOT being shoved down the viewers throat. It's been there since the latter half of series 1. And they may have rushed things a bit with their relationship, but I think they're putting it on the backburner now because Arthur feels that he really can't do anything about it until he becomes king.

Rushed A BIT? Really? Oh no, that felt totally natural to me, you know... like, last season he hardly knew she existed and now after barely 2 episodes she is the love of his life, so obviously this season is written so good, that's such attentions to details, like the fact that Arthur was changing because of the influence of Merlin and now it's like he's been brainwashed and he's back to being the royal prat he was on 101, ahd he needs pure Gwen to become the king he will be (totally like it happens in ALL the versions of the legend... Arthur is a great king because of his cheating wife, not because he was Merlins pupil, or because he was strong and honest, or because Morgana pushed him to take up his role... only because his wife did Lancelot and/or half round talbe)

Guh. I got butterflies when he kissed her. So amazing and romantic! With a hint of awkward. LOL. Besides the amazing A/G scenes, this episode was wonderful. Especially because Arthur learned a lesson and realised that humility was very important to have has a future king. I love that.

If you really liked the episode then I'm happy for you. But I still think they are doing the worst job ever, it could be a slow building, something real so anyone could enjoy the evolution, but no, why wasting time on making the story believable? I'm only happy Bradley said clearly that TPTB were scared that Gwen would end up left arranging flowers because Arthur was too much into Morgana, at least someone is honestly admitting what's happening.

Anyway, my post is not meant to be rude, I hope I wasn't, but I'm angry at the writers for the sudden turn because they decided they were risking to never make the wedding happen and they decided to erase all that is happened into s1 because that way would be easier, and that's not a fair way to treat fans.

[collide]

Originally Posted by Swamy (View Post) Rushed A BIT? Really? Oh no, that felt totally natural to me, you know... like, last season he hardly knew she existed and now after barely 2 episodes she is the love of his life, so obviously this season is written so good, that's such attentions to details, like the fact that Arthur was changing because of the influence of Merlin and now it's like he's been brainwashed and he's back to being the royal prat he was on 101, ahd he needs pure Gwen to become the king he will be (totally like it happens in ALL the versions of the legend... Arthur is a great king because of his cheating wife, not because he was Merlins pupil, or because he was strong and honest, or because Morgana pushed him to take up his role... only because his wife did Lancelot and/or half round talbe)

Arthur/Gwen had very significant scenes that led to this point. It did not just come out of nowhere. The Poisoned Chalice, To Kill the King, Moment of Truth and the series finale are the most prominent episodes. You can't exactly say you did not see it coming.

And obviously, the show is not 100 percent true to the legend or else Merlin would be an old man and Gwen would not be a servant. I don't understand how you can act like the old rules apply here.

Arthur spent a good portion of the episode with Gwen and he saw things that he might have over wised overlooked. I don't think the kiss was rushed.....it was more of a spontateous-in-the-moment type of thing.

Arthur was into Morgana for, like, the first 4-5 episodes of the series. That went away LONG before he was even put into Gwen's direction. Bradley also said the viewers probably were confused because A/M were kind of an incestuous relationship.


And another thing: I don't understand why the fans have to slight Gwen to prop Morgana.

[Miss Bass]

That was the funniest Merlin episode ever. I'm still astonished at the variety of Arthur's/Bradly's facial expressions. Arthur and Merlin were esp good looking too for some reason. And same as Gwen, she looked gorgeous in the kiss scene and in the end, the girl has nice lips. A/G were sweet, I can't believe how much I love them. Anyway I absolutely adored the episode.

But I am glad we're getting some Morgana in the next episode. I miss her and I want some Morgana/Merlin. Can't wait to see Mordred again.

last season he hardly knew she existed and now after barely 2 episodes she is the love of his life

Actually it's more like last season she was an intriguing person, he obviously knew she existed and seemed to find her somewhat interesting. But he didn't view her in a romantic light. Now in season 2 he spent a few days living with her and they connected so he feels something. He isn't exactly in love yet, but he is attracted to her and they've definitely made a connection.

What I saw in this episode was Gwen giving Arthur what he wanted by being straight with him. And he liked that and clearly seemed to find her boldness with him attractive and inviting. That is enough for a 20something boy like Arthur to try to impress a lady and want to kiss her. It's not love, it's intrigue.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by collide (View Post) Arthur/Gwen had very significant scenes that led to this point. It did not just come out of nowhere. The Poisoned Chalice, To Kill the King, Moment of Truth and the series finale are the most prominent episodes. You can't exactly say you did not see it coming. And obviously, the show is not 100 percent true to the legend or else Merlin would be an old man and Gwen would not be a servant. I don't understand how you can act like the old rules apply here. Arthur spent a good portion of the episode with Gwen and he saw things that he might have over wised overlooked. I don't think the kiss was rushed.....it was more of a spontateous-in-the-moment type of thing. Arthur was into Morgana for, like, the first 4-5 episodes of the series. That went away LONG before he was even put into Gwen's direction. Bradley also said the viewers probably were confused because A/M were kind of an incestuous relationship. And another thing: I don't understand why the fans have to slight Gwen to prop Morgana.

Hu ? I don't quite understand the last line. In this serie, I'm a fan of Both Morgana and Gwen, and that is a first. In the legend, I can usually hardly stand Gwen, even if I think her romance with Lancelot is kind of epic.

So that's a first for me to like Gwen and I was really, really thankful for this serie cause she is a whole different character of the original Guinevere. And, even as a Morgana fan, I was waiting to see how they would devellop Arthur/Gwen, and this, even if at first, I thought it was kinda lame for them to make of her a maid, meaning they'll have to make an epic love story between Arthur and her (It was never the case in the legend, but well, that's for the audience, we need love triangle, angst, romance and blabla. So we can live with that.)

The thing is, I'm totally disappointed. I'm sorry, it doesn't feel natural to see Arthur suddenly falling head over heels to a girl he knew for a while, just because of some plot twists.

Let's be honest, Arthur doesn't even feel the same this season; It's like we are back to the good old season 1 episode 1 Arthur. Meaning a bastard to Merlin, a prat, and, let's be honest, like if the whole devellopment of this season never happened.

So yeah, the guy started to notice Gwen in episode 10 (the poisoned calice ? That was an hint ? Please, nothing happened there, it was all about Merlin) and later, in episode 13 (which was a bad episode, BTW) when she was on his bedside.

And you are calling this devellopment in season 1 ? No. There was foreshadowing, cause we know Gwen has to be Queen in the end, but devellopment ? Nothing.

And finally we get 2 episode in the second season, where after an awkward moment which already felt forced in episode 1, we got the whole Romeo and Juliet storyline in episode 2 ?

I wanted to enjoy a well done devellopment, not this kind of ****ty thing. I liked the idea of Gwen/Arthur and what they did ruined it for me. It seems they aren't able to give them any proper devellopment without turning Arthur to season 1 Arthur, without pushing Merlin on the side and Morgana out of the window (Cause in fact, Gwen just did Morgana and Merlin's job. In season 1, they were the one guiding him to do the good things, and by giving us this unatural devellopment, it seems all of that was for crap.)

Now, I just hope Gwen will retrieve her Lancelot (THAT was a love at first sight. No kiss, no declaration and we knew they wee meant for each other. I hope we'll get a fair ammount of them in episode 4) and that now they foreshadowed more than enough, and more than quickly, Arthur/Gwen as epic love story, we be back to classical, and awesome Merlin episode.

Ironically, it seems it will be the case next week with an episode involving majorly Merlin and Morgana. I'm thankful to the writers for killing an angle of the story I wanted to enjoy and I just hope we'll get anyway a decent focus on others characters.

And if you wanna speak about Morgana, you have there a great difference. Take a look at Arthur/Morgana devellopment in season 1 and take a look at Arthur/Gwen in season 2. Arthur/Morgana was devellopped during the whole season , slowly, and in really good way , everything was there, it was painfully obvious they both fancied each other but were to proud to admit it.
With Arthur/Gwen in 2 episode we get...I don't even know how I can call it.
A great potential wasted I guess. Yeah.

So, no, you are wrong, while Arthur/Morgana fans are angry because the devellopment of their pairing through a whole season seem to have been killed in 2 episode by a whole new pairing, there were too some Morgana fans who wanted to enjoy Arthur/Gwen. But not like that. That was boring.

And Arthur was boring too. I want the good old Arthur, not Prince prat from S1 episode 1. Merlin deserves a better treatment, thank you. (All this bromance for what ? for THAT ? Run away with Morgana, Merlin, Arthur doesn't deserve more.)

(And no, Bradley James said Arthur and Morgana weren't related so, viewers won't be uncomfortable watching them snog. He never said anything else. And when it comes to Arthur/Morgana it wasn't devellopped for four episode.

Honest, who wanna donwplay what ? It's not about shipping there, it's about devellopment, Not only Arthur/Gwen was unnatural lately, Arthur/Merlin was too. So let's call a cast a cat and let's call rushed, rushed. Even the actors said the productors were afraid cause while one couple was going too far, the other was let on the start, thus, they wanted to catch up a bit. It's not a surprised they didn't let things last, but that was painfully too obvious.)

Is that something wrong enjoying well done devellopment ? I wanted it to be devellopped like in episode 10. That, was good.
Now those are just opinions but please, let's not bring the good old shipping wars there. Or I'm a Merlin/Arthur shipper for being angry at Arthur for treating Merlin like that.

[Swamy]

Originally Posted by Miss Bass (View Post) Actually it's more like last season she was an intriguing person, he obviously knew she existed and seemed to find her somewhat interesting.

maybe you should write a letter to Bradley and inform him about this because he said himself that Arthur barely noticed her exsistence. I'm not making staff up. In the last episode, all of a sudden, after almost 0 interaction she "saw the man inside of him" when she barely saw the one on the outside the times he got her arrested (and even because she was too busy falling in and out of love with Merlin and Lancelot during the previous episodes).

But he didn't view her in a romantic light. Now in season 2 he spent a few days living with her and they connected so he feels something. He isn't exactly in love yet, but he is attracted to her and they've definitely made a connection. What I saw in this episode was Gwen giving Arthur what he wanted by being straight with him. And he liked that and clearly seemed to find her boldness with him attractive and inviting. That is enough for a 20something boy like Arthur to try to impress a lady and want to kiss her. It's not love, it's intrigue.

It' not like Merlin or Morgana never been bold and honest with him, or was I watching another show? And I'm trying hard to recall a moment of s1 when Arthur was intrigued by Gwen. Bradley himself admitted clearly that the writers are trying hard to do something about Arthur///Gwen because the desire between Arthur and Morgana was very obvious and the way the story was going Gwen would be left arraging flowers (his own words) so TPTB asked to put aside ArMor to rush things between Arthur and his (unfaithful) queen.
The excuse the writers used to have him living with Gwen was so lame that it's not even funny. Is it too much to hope for a real build up of a relationship? I understand Arthur marrying Gwen is the way the story has to go, but can it please happen in a more natural way? Or at least a believable one?

collide I think Gwen and Arthur had only one significant scene - the one on episode 13, and it felt totally off. That one wasn't her place. That was Morgana's place, or Merlin's. We saw Arthur going against Uther orders for Morgana, saving Mordred for her (then do it for me, rings any bell?) and that wasn't so far away from the last episode. All along they dropped little somethings to show the kind of relationship they have, and t was not a sibling one (because we would never be that way with our brothers, or so I hope)
I don't like Gwen and I won't lie about it, but I could watch her scenes without any big complain (well, I didn't like 2 scenes of her because I couldn't see any reality in them but this has nothing to do with Arthur) until now. I'm not trying to slight Gwen to prop Morgana, all I'm saying is they could use more time instead of rushing things and give everyone the possibility to enjoy the show, because I can't believe anyone can enjoy this but fans that want nothing else than for Arthur to be with Gwen, even if its with a badly written story.

[collide]

Lolipopo No, "The Poisoned Chalice" was towards the beginning. Episode 4, if I remember correctly.

The Poisoned Chalice: Arthur and Gwen worked indirectly and directly together to help save Merlin from the poison. A la the whole scene in the dungeon.

To Kill the King: Arthur went to Gwen's house and said he was sorry for the loss of her father. And that if she ever need anything, she should come to him.

The Moment of Truth: Gwen made him realize that he was being a spoiled brat in regards to the food with Merlin's mother. And, she stood up to him during his whole little speech where he said only the men could fight.

The season finale: Well, I think this is pretty self-explanatory.

They did have subtle moments in series two, but they were there and they were pretty significant.

Who said Arthur fell head over heels in love with Gwen? He did not. He was in close quarters with her and he noticed her when otherwise, he might of not have. She stood up to him and treated him like he wanted to be treated. There were no declarations of love or anything of the sort. Just attraction and a connection.

Um, I just find it quite contradictory that you're claiming Lancelot/Gwen were less forced than Arthur/Gwen. You're propping those two up for the same reasons why you disliked Arthur/Gwen. Arthur/Gwen have known each other for more than a season. Lancelot/Gwen talked for a mere episode. And, I, for one, do not believe in the concept of love at first sight. Which is why I'm glad they did not go that route with Arthur/Gwen. And is Gwen really being blamed because Arthur is going back to his usual pratty self? I think this episode was used to illustrate the future of Camelot. The Future King and Queen, with their adviser, which is Merlin, by their side. That is why I think Morgana was pushed aside since she is probably going to turn evil.

In my opinion, only the first 4-5 episodes showed that Arthur/Morgana fancied each other. That was dropped off way before Arthur was put into Gwen's orbit. The same things goes for Merlin/Gwen.

Yes, Bradley James did say that. In a interview I just watched.

[collide]

Swamy: I just find it funny people seem to care about the "standards" of the show, all of a sudden, when Arthur/Gwen have scenes. This is Merlin......a show where this is a talking dragon, for goodness sakes.

I just listed some significant scenes they had in Series One. I'm sure you will be inclined to disagree. Gwen was not going to Arthur's chamber to declare her love for him. She was going to relieve Gauis from watching over him. She said she longed for him to be King because she thought he would change Camelot.

A badly written storyline? The whole show is pretty much badly written. It is overly cheesy and cracktastic, but that is why I love it. People who hate Arthur/Gwen are not going to like it no matter if it was written well or not.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by collide (View Post) Lolipopo No, "The Poisoned Chalice" was towards the beginning. Episode 4, if I remember correctly. The Poisoned Chalice: Arthur and Gwen worked indirectly and directly together to help save Merlin from the poison. A la the whole scene in the dungeon. To Kill the King: Arthur went to Gwen's house and said he was sorry for the loss of her father. And that if she ever need anything, she should come to him. The Moment of Truth: Gwen made him realize that he was being a spoiled brat in regards to the food with Merlin's mother. And, she stood up to him during his whole little speech where he said only the men could fight. The season finale: Well, I think this is pretty self-explanatory. They did have subtle moments in series two, but they were there and they were pretty significant. Who said Arthur fell head over heels in love with Gwen? He did not. He was in close quarters with her and he noticed her when otherwise, he might of not have. She stood up to him and treated him like he wanted to be treated. There were no declarations of love or anything of the sort. Just attraction and a connection. Um, I just find it quite contradictory that you're claiming Lancelot/Gwen were less forced than Arthur/Gwen. You're propping those two up for the same reasons why you disliked Arthur/Gwen. Arthur/Gwen have known each other for more than a season. Lancelot/Gwen talked for a mere episode. And, I, for one, do not believe in the concept of love at first sight. Which is why I'm glad they did not go that route with Arthur/Gwen. And is Gwen really being blamed because Arthur is going back to his usual pratty self? I think this episode was used to illustrate the future of Camelot. The Future King and Queen, with their adviser, which is Merlin, by their side. That is why I think Morgana was pushed aside since she is probably going to turn evil. In my opinion, only the first 4-5 episodes showed that Arthur/Morgana fancied each other. That was dropped off way before Arthur was put into Gwen's orbit. The same things goes for Merlin/Gwen. Yes, Bradley James did say that. In a interview I just watched.

Yeah, I remember the poisoned Calice, and and I remember this episode was more about Arthur/Merlin and Arthur/Morgana than Arthur/Gwen. Gwen came to his cell to take the flower. Arthur worked for Merlin, and Morgana pushed him to go against Uther's orders to save Merlin. I hardly see where there was devellopment for Arthur/Gwen there.

About the other two, didn't say anything against it.

And yeah, actually in just one episode, Lancelot/Gwen makes still more sense that Arthur/Gwen. Why ? Love at first sight ? You don't believe it ? It does exist though, and through the legend, it's usually how Lancelot/Gwen begins. Foreshadowing of an epic love story ? Devotion from Lancelot to this one woman right from the start ? Gwen's obvious attraction at him ?

Arthur/Gwen was incredibly forced while there were plenty ways to work with past devellopment with others characters; The only thing they did was to back up Arthur's devellopment to give Gwen both Merlin and Morgana's role, and this, in 2 episode only.
So yeah, Arthur/Gwen's devellopment is responsible for Arthur turning back to level 0. Simply because what she did was basically what others characters did for Arthur in the first season. I thought Gwen's gentleness, shyness, would be responsible of the build up of her relationship with Arthur but it seems Arthur needs to be shaken by each one of his love interest.

About the head over heels, it's just an expression; It's obvious that while going with the kiss road, the writers wanted to make us accept the fact that feelings were there. And let's not add the cliche parting at the end of the episode. We just get in little time a whole "We wanna be together but we can't" cliche thing. Romeo and Juliet much ?

Why Morgana was pushed aside ? Simply because they aren't talented enough to give decent screentime to each ladies in one episode. Or because if we are counting on Morgana's influence on Arthur, some devellopment which happened there would have been difficult to make.

No, Merlin/Gwen was dropped after a few episode, Morgana/Arthur was never. And from what capps said, isn't going to be, they just wanted to catch up with Arthur/Gwen.
Hmm Arthur/Morgana devellopment...let's see...
Episode 1, episode 2, episode 3, episode 4, episode 5, episode 6, episode 7, episode 8, episode 9, episode 10, episode 11, episode 12, episode 13...
They had interactions and devellopment during the whole season. So no, they weren't dropped after a few episode. Thuswhy the sudden change and Morgana pushed on the side seems difficult to accept; Now it was necessary, for them to be able to devellop Arthur/Gwen, and that wouldn't bore me at all, if the devellopment hadn't been this rushed.

It just give a feeling of "Oh, we need to throw some Arthur/Gwen for the legend elements and who cares if we are wasting the potential ?"
Just that. And even the staff acknowledge the fact.

And let's be a honest, it's a whole new story they are making, and yes, the level of writing isn't exactly Shaekspearian, but that's not the reason why people aren't allowed to complain when the level is down.

Arthur/gwen fans have every right to enjoy the turn of things, but as a fan of the whole show, it's my right being disappointed as well.
Now, I don't see the "if people don't like it they will never" as an excuse. I am not a fan of Guinevere in the legend but I love her in ths show. And the thought of Arthur/Gwen appealed me, so...yeah. Now it's just disappointment and waiting for the good old magic episode, with Uther threatening to kill everyone, marrying a troll, Morgana develloping powers, Merlin devellopping powers and...that's it.

The kiss was sweet, the idea was sweet but...so fast ? Like this ? They are killing my and many others people, like I saw on Lj, enjoyment of the ship. That sucks.

(And totally OT but Taylor looks lovely on your icon. I just had to say it.)