Sci-Fi/Fantasy - Lord of the Rings Movies Discussion #1 One ring to rule them all! - Page 6

DonQuixote99 · 10-29-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryostar (View Post)

I tihnk it was on the book thread that I mentioned this, but i've tried to get through that book 5 times now....I can never make it more than halfway before I stop.

So, you bog down in the Dead Marshes, or before?

Too bad, from my POV of course, but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work....

Of course, when people criticize things for being 'political,' they mean 'politically wrong,' I suspect. Not that Tolkein isn't open to a number of criticisms. To quote an acquaintance "LOTR is dead biased. It'll probably turn out that the orcs were civilised types with a long history of cultural and literary erudition, and that Aragorn actually led a pitiless, racist genocide against them and beat his wife, but we're just getting Tolkein's propaganda version of the story."

I have to call upon symbolism to counter that. Orcs shouldn't be considered too realistically--it's a fantasy, you know. As metaphor, they are humans without the Grace of God. THAT is why they are shown as utterly awful and hopeless. You don't have to share Tolkien's Christianity, and I don't, to understand that he was illustrating some sophisticated theological thinking in his books.

And that 'illustration' can come off as a sort of propaganda, if you are unsympathetic to some of those points....

DonQuixote99 · 10-29-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samwise Gamgee (View Post)

Cryo, u must give it a try!

What is the problem? I know there are some boring parts... but there's so much left off from the movies!

I use to read it once a year, but I haven't for 2 years!

Hey, Don!
Are u up only for LoTR? I mean, in a fandom basis!

Modern TV SF hasn't really grabbed me, I must admit. I've followed the Terminator movies, and myself and Mrs. Q sort of have a long-term project going to go through all the Star-Trek: TNG and DS9 episodes.

I would probably think I had transported much closer to paradise if someone started putting Jack Vance stories on the screen, in the right way....

**Cryostar** · 10-30-2009, 06:37 AM

Most of the time I don't mind his veiled theological talks, let's face it, most authors of the time used great works to do the same thing, Look at Narnia. It just seems to be....thicker, than usual. Also, I don't think that the book was 100% written by JRR too, wasn't part of it finished from his notes?

DonQuixote99 · 10-30-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryostar (View Post)

Most of the time I don't mind his veiled theological talks, let's face it, most authors of the time used great works to do the same thing, Look at Narnia. It just seems to be....thicker, than usual. Also, I don't think that the book was 100% written by JRR too, wasn't part of it finished from his notes?

Lord of the Rings is all JRRT; Silmarillion was finished from notes. I got mixed up I'm afraid--I thought you were saying you couldn't get through LOTR. But rereading I see you were responding to a comment about the Silmarillion. Oops.

I'll bet only a minority of fans have read the Silmarilion straight through. I haven't. It's done more on a 'summary of history' level, way more packed with characters and events than narrative fiction.

**Cryostar** · 10-31-2009, 09:34 PM

Heh, na, I can get through LOTR just fine....several times in fact. Children of Hurin, well, that's another story.

I know I made it through the book, it's not very long (i remember complaining about paying so much for such a little book) but for the life of me, I don't remember a damned thing about the book.

loveslullaby · 10-31-2009, 11:49 PM

Add me!

**Cryostar** · 11-02-2009, 06:34 AM

And what should we add you to?

Samwise Gamgee · 11-03-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuixote99 (View Post)

So, you bog down in the Dead Marshes, or before?

Too bad, from my POV of course, but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work....

Of course, when people criticize things for being 'political,' they mean 'politically wrong,' I suspect. Not that Tolkein isn't open to a number of criticisms. To quote an acquaintance "LOTR is dead biased. It'll probably turn out that the orcs were civilised types with a long history of cultural and literary erudition, and that Aragorn actually led a pitiless, racist genocide against them and beat his wife, but we're just getting Tolkein's propaganda version of the story."

I have to call upon symbolism to counter that. Orcs shouldn't be considered too realistically--it's a fantasy, you know. As metaphor, they are humans without the Grace of God. THAT is why they are shown as utterly awful and hopeless. You don't have to share Tolkien's Christianity, and I don't, to understand that he was illustrating some sophisticated theological thinking in his books.

And that 'illustration' can come off as a sort of propaganda, if you are unsympathetic to some of those points....

As I said before, a book carries a lot from his author. Toughts, ideas, background, influence, inspiration. Everything mixed up. I really don't relate Tolkien to religion nor political, cause I'm not christian myself and I'm not that familiar with England's political back then, although I know there was the war and stuff. But Brazil was barely involved so it wasn't our context nor reality. Of course I can relate some concepts and situations, but I don't really care. I'd probably love the same way if the facts were even more explicit.

I use to see Silmarillion as a bible. It tells about the creation of the Tolkienverse. It's a hell of a work.

Samwise Gamgee · 11-03-2009, 01:09 PM

I'm re-reading LoTR.
The hobbits just got to Bombadil's house!

What do you think about him?
I can barely remember, but I guess he's some kind of "first creation" creature.

**Cryostar** · 11-04-2009, 08:50 PM

Dwarf!

Samwise Gamgee · 11-05-2009, 06:41 AM

Dwarf?
He's not a dwarf, as I can remember!

He's also imune to the one ring!

Now (on my reading) the hobbits and Strider met Glorfindel!

**Cryostar** · 11-06-2009, 08:12 PM

No, just saying DWARF! I was re reading some select passages of the hobbit over the week.

Taking a break from the sword of truth series.

Samwise Gamgee · 11-07-2009, 03:25 PM

Just read the Council of Elrond. One of my fave parts of the books!

**Cryostar** · 11-09-2009, 08:29 AM

Why so?

Samwise Gamgee · 11-09-2009, 08:52 AM

Because Gandalf and Elrond tell a lot about history of the middle earth. Frodo is amazed when Elrond tells events 2.000 years behind. There's a lot of conversation between the characters and you get to know a lot of things!

As my reading goes... They're heading to Khaza-dum bridge!

BTW... It would be cool if you guys could help on LOTR campaign on requests board!