Lorelai19

Yes, I think that was a brief "bleed through" to reality. Actually, that scene was a dream within a dream, as it was the dream of a man who was already living in a kind of dream anyway. Heh.

Meredith44

I haven't been here in awhile so I have a few random comments to make, some from a few episodes back.

First of all, I love the title of the thread. I revise my earlier statement that Isabelle is just doing things to protect her family. I don't think she is necessarily evil, but she seems to have a child's lack of morals and impulse control combined with her awesome powers. I definitely wouldn't want to be near her when she enters her "terrible two's"!

I didn't particularly care for the Tom AU episode, but I like Alana well enough. I agree with the people who said that they hope for more from her character, though.

I so didn't see that Kyle was the killer until the last episode, despite the sweatshirt thing. What I want to know is how the future was able to influence him so much, since he was never taken. I mean he stayed in the present (albeit in a coma), so was all of this change from the brief time he was in the light (either the first or second times?) He was definitely an idiot for not telling his father about the blackouts when they happened.

I also miss Collier. He was a good mix of smarminess and potential evil. I'm curious as to the disappearing body thing. I wouldn't object if they managed to bring him back somehow. (As long as they made it believable in this universe.)

I can't see Shawn as a good leader of the 4400. I know that Collier had faith in him, but that is a huge responsibility. I do feel sorry for him and his heartache that he can't heal everyone. So far I don't mind that Lilly and whatshisname manipulated him. He doesn't seem willing to take advice (even if it is good advice) straight out, so this is a reasonable solution. (So far. I reserve the right to change my opinion if this goes too far.)

I didn't really care so much for the returnee this week. Am I correct in assuming that the ripples from her case will just be the assassin? Does anyone else have any other ideas as to what her ripples might be?

Regarding Maia. I thought from the instant that the diary was subpoenaed that they should create a fake and just sprinkle in enough true things to make it believable. I think that her Aunt loves her, but just couldn't pass up the opportunity to make easy money. I don't particularly care for her aunt, but I hope they don't completely drop the storyline.

Oh, and not completely on topic, but I also love the "character" commercials. I tape the show and fast-forward through most commercials, but I always watch them.

I guess that's about it. I'm sure I missed something that I wanted to mention, but I can always bring it up later.

coolove

I have this feeling that Tom's dream is going to come to life and Kyle get's arrested in the exact same way

TvJunkie

I don't know if I consider him an idiot considering that NTAC didn't want to let him out of quarantine in the first place I don't know if I would trust them with this knowledge. Even if he told his father how could Kyle be sure that Tom wouldn't tell NTAC or even Diana and she wound up telling NTAC for his own good.


I think Kyle is btwn a rock and a hard place he doesn't know who to trust. I think the change happened when Kyle being taken was interrupted by Shawn and Shawn was the one who wound up being taken and Kyle ended up in a coma. Then the whole thing with the future person that was communicating with Tom using Kyle.


I just wonder if there are two different forces trying to influence the future.

SweetLisaLisa

I think lily was manipulated into manipulating Sean. I don't think she realized she did it. And if this guy is bad how come Lily's baby didn't go all psycho killer when he was just a few feet away? Unless she's pulling another "i'll let you think I like you then get you killed" like she did on Collier.

As for Sean. i think he's just stuck in a young mentality. Technically he still had the mind of a 16 year old even though he's older. He was forced into going out on his own because of his whiny punk of a brother. But Sean will learn.

As for the diary, I think Diana did hand over a fake diary.

Where has Richard been? Not that I miss him. He kind of gets on my nerves. He's a little too possessive and dominating for me, but then he comes from a time when that was expected of men.

pacifierrocks

I think that Shawn's new little "helper" said that Richard is going to be travelling a lot or something like that. Did the Center give him a job too? I really do hope that Shawn comes into his own and become his own man so to speak. I did like him standing up to the new guy. Looks good on him.

celestialstars

I miss Collier too. They need a least one character that has enough charisma to be morally challengened, in a good way. It was nice to not be too sure of what he was doing.

Shawn did have too must thrust on him at an early age and can't blame him for not handling it all well.

I don't really care for Lily too much and agree with SweetLisaLisa that she was being manipulative but didn't know it or realize that she had been manipulated too. Hey maybe Isabelle isn't really evil or the one doing things. Maybe it's Lily. Maybe it's her powers and she's just blaming it on the baby. Probably not, huh?

I like Alanna too. I'm not going to comment on whether she's perfect or not because she's just been in 2 episodes, so i'm going to wait a bit before really really judging her.

Eye of Botox

*stomps into the thread*


Is it Sunday yet?? I'm having some serious withdrawl from the 4400. I didn't especially love this week's episode, but damnit, it's getting addictive. Grrrr.

SweetLisaLisa

Good point, Celest. Maybe it isn't the baby. Maybe it's Lily who has the powers.

Lorelai19

Me too. I'm so sadly addicted to this show.

Meredith44

I see your point. Okay, maybe idiot was a strong word, and maybe you're right and Tom isn't the best person to be telling because of his connections to NTAC. I still hold by my position that he should have told someone! (Doctor, friend, other trusted adult...) If it had happened to me, my first thought wouldn't have been that I was secretly an assassin, but I would have at least been concerrned about possible brain damage and other negative repercussions and want to get it checked out.


My problem with the change happening when Shawn interrupted Kyle being taken is that I don't think the future would have been able to plan for it then. As far as they knew, they were going to take Kyle (and give him the powers that Shawn got?), but their plans were changed for them. Maybe they were able to reach him somehow when he was in the coma? (Come to think of it, if Shawn took Kyle's place, how did he become the conduit unless they were able to reach him somehow in the coma?) I'm sure I'm thinking too much into this and I should just go with the flow.


I have been wondering that myself. If that is true, I wonder if they will touch on that this season or make that a storyline in future seasons.


I think she had to realize that she was manipulating Shawn, what with the whole "your" idea conversation that she had with the other guy afterwards. As far as Isabelle not going psycho, it seems to me that she only reacts when she is being threatened/going to be threatened somehow. If the guy isn't so great but won't affect her in any way, I could see her not reacting. Of course I also like the idea of her pulling the "I'll let you think I like you then get you killed" ploy again!


She did, but it wasn't her idea to do so. I was just saying that if I were her, that would have been one of my first thoughts, rather than having someone else come up with the idea and hand me the finished product.


While I think that some of his attitude might come from the period in which he grew up, I think that it is more due to his current situation. I mean, from what I saw of Lily in the crisis, she seemed to act pretty helpless. Also, I'm not sure how I'd react when faced with a spouse who communicates with my possessed child!


I agree, but then again, I have minimal tolerance for weak characters.


While that would be an interesting twist, I don't think so. First of all is the fact that Isabelle was communicating to Lily before she was even born, sending her images when she didn't like things. Second of all, the attacks don't seem proportional to the precipitators. It seems much more like a child's impulsiveness/lack of control than that of an adult. I would think that Lilly would have somehow incapacitated the people instead of killing them. Thirdly, wasn't Collier alone with Isabelle when he was deceived about his future/death? And lastly, I really think that Lily's first daughter's (Hannah? I so can't remember her name) illness/hospitalization is an example of sibling rivalry taken to an extreme. But, come to think of it, why was Lily (and Richard for that matter) taken? What are their powers? Were they taken just so they could be Isabelle's parents, and she is the important one?

Meredith44

I see your point. Okay, maybe idiot was a strong word, and maybe you're right and Tom isn't the best person to be telling because of his connections to NTAC. I still hold by my position that he should have told someone! (Doctor, friend, other trusted adult...) If it had happened to me, my first thought wouldn't have been that I was secretly an assassin, but I would have at least been concerrned about possible brain damage and other negative repercussions and want to get it checked out.


My problem with the change happening when Shawn interrupted Kyle being taken is that I don't think the future would have been able to plan for it then. As far as they knew, they were going to take Kyle (and give him the powers that Shawn got?), but their plans were changed for them. Maybe they were able to reach him somehow when he was in the coma? (Come to think of it, if Shawn took Kyle's place, how did he become the conduit unless they were able to reach him somehow in the coma?) I'm sure I'm thinking too much into this and I should just go with the flow.


I have been wondering that myself. If that is true, I wonder if they will touch on that this season or make that a storyline in future seasons.


I think she had to realize that she was manipulating Shawn, what with the whole "your" idea conversation that she had with the other guy afterwards. As far as Isabelle not going psycho, it seems to me that she only reacts when she is being threatened/going to be threatened somehow. If the guy isn't so great but won't affect her in any way, I could see her not reacting. Of course I also like the idea of her pulling the "I'll let you think I like you then get you killed" ploy again!


She did, but it wasn't her idea to do so. I was just saying that if I were her, that would have been one of my first thoughts, rather than having someone else come up with the idea and hand me the finished product.


While I think that some of his attitude might come from the period in which he grew up, I think that it is more due to his current situation. I mean, from what I saw of Lily in the crisis, she seemed to act pretty helpless. Also, I'm not sure how I'd react when faced with a spouse who communicates with my possessed child!


I agree, but then again, I have minimal tolerance for weak characters.


While that would be an interesting twist, I don't think so. First of all is the fact that Isabelle was communicating to Lily before she was even born, sending her images when she didn't like things. Second of all, the attacks don't seem proportional to the precipitators. It seems much more like a child's impulsiveness/lack of control than that of an adult. I would think that Lilly would have somehow incapacitated the people instead of killing them. Thirdly, wasn't Collier alone with Isabelle when he was deceived about his future/death? And lastly, I really think that Lily's first daughter's (Hannah? I so can't remember her name) illness/hospitalization is an example of sibling rivalry taken to an extreme. But, come to think of it, why was Lily (and Richard for that matter) taken? What are their powers? Were they taken just so they could be Isabelle's parents, and she is the important one?

pacifierrocks

Maybe they were going to take Shawn. Because everytime they took someone they were alone where no one could see. So maybe they were going to take Shawn anyways, but can only take one person at a time. I don't know. the whole thing with messing with the future thing is that the slightest change, if the person doesn't do what they want them to do then eveyrthing could've been for nothing. they would have to plan for every single thing that can go wrong. phew...it must be tiring being from the future.

pacifierrocks

Maybe they were going to take Shawn. Because everytime they took someone they were alone where no one could see. So maybe they were going to take Shawn anyways, but can only take one person at a time. I don't know. the whole thing with messing with the future thing is that the slightest change, if the person doesn't do what they want them to do then eveyrthing could've been for nothing. they would have to plan for every single thing that can go wrong. phew...it must be tiring being from the future.

Lorelai19

I agree. If these future dudes are so great at planning ripple effects, how could they have not forseen what would happen if they abducted Kyle in front of Shawn? The way Kyle was wimpering, who wouldn't have tried to help him?

If Kyle's abduction was so important, what with him being the information conduit, why risk the abduction with a witness? Especially when no other abduction had a witness. Certainly they could have found another time when Kyle was alone.

So, I don't exactly buy that Shawn's abduction was an accident, or Kyle's coma either. I think that whatever got down loaded into Kyle could have been put there the night of Shawn's abduction, or at any time since.