[Cristofle]

I can only assure you that you pose absolutely no threat to me, Jacob.

Well, this is good news in this somewhat bleak period regarding women's rights in the US- looks like a healthy majority of the general public opposes the GOP stance on birth control coverage according to recent polling.

Do you think employers should be allowed to deny health care coverage to their employees for doctor-recommended health care services if those services are contrary to the employer’s religious beliefs or moral convictions, or do you think all workers should be allowed access to all doctor-recommended health care services, regardless of their employer’s beliefs? 25% – Employers should be allowed to deny coverage based on their beliefs – 25% 67% – All workers should be allowed to access health care services regardless of their employer’s beliefs 8% – Not sure

67% Oppose Blunt Birth Control Amendment

[Avatar]

That is good news - maybe it'll make the proponents think twice before pushing it.

[TheAngel]

Eh, generally I've found that the vocal minority has more of an impact on policy than the quiet majority. For example, most people don't have a problem with gay marriage or civil union but there's a vocal minority who thinks we're going to bring Sodom and Gomorrah back in living color and they're the ones who Washington panders to. I don't understand how employers can deny coverage based on their beliefs. This, frighteningly, brings me back to days of people being able to deny service to customers because of the color of their skin or religious preference and I wonder if, once again, we're coming back around to the idea that it's OK to deny people rights as long as you're getting the selfish satisfaction of living in your own little world where everything you think and believe is right and you can believe that because you don't actually have to be challenged in those beliefs.

Jacob,
Of course there's bias. But you definitely don't pose a threat to me. And you're naive to think that you do. I believe what I believe and that isn't going to change unless I have some life-altering experience or someone makes a good argument. I'm not going to have that life-altering experience over the internet and you're not making good arguments. You're flippant and have really shown little respect for this board so I have little respect for you. When I came here, I was much more conservative than I am now. I would have voted for Bush over Gore, and probably again over Kerry. I was pro-choice and pro-gay (obviously) but I was a lot more relaxed about gun control, more strict about immigration, more strict about welfare and government assistance. Then, I went to college, started talking to people who weren't from my background. I got some serious doses of humility and the idea that the way I lived my life wasn't necessarily the right way for everyone to, and what worked for me didn't necessarily work for everyone else, and that really changed my perspective. I grew up, my opinions changed. I'm sure they will again when I have kids, again when I retire, but don't expect them to change just because of something you posted on an online forum. I enjoy debate and discussion and having my ideas challenged but don't get your feelings hurt just because I don't instantly become pro-life or believe that you know millions of women who take advantage of men just because they're acting like the damsel in distress.

[_vega_]

A friend of mine on facebook posted this. I thought it was a great analogy of the victim blaming that usually happens to women who have been raped.

It has one f word so that's why I didn't post it on the thread, since this is a PG-13 board, but other than that there's nothing anybody would find offensive.

[sunnykerr]

Vega That is brilliant! Thank you for bringing that to my attention!

Cristofle Well, it's like that thing... as a nation, the U.S. has a pretty bad reputation (anti-women's rights, anti-gay rights, anti-social welfare, etc.) but then I've never met a single U.S. citizen who wasn't a perfectly nice, reasonable person. So that poll tells me that most U.S. citizens are rational when it comes to reproductive rights. It's their elected officials who bandy about ideology as though ideology has ever helped anyone run their daily lives.

Dan Those wacky French. They won't accept the female version of doctor, professor, author and whatever else in their Academie, but now the word for "older womana and/or married woman" is going to disappear. They do keep up on our toes.



And thank you for the general reminded to give name-calling a wide berth. I think I needed it as well.

[Gray Ghost]

I laughed at the feedback. It put a smile on my face. You guys think I'm this Rick Santorum Michelle Bachmann conservative.
I'm not a Bush Republican or a Neo-con. I would like to see how much traffic the board gets if I was to depart.
Not that's any of your business but I'm a registered Libertarian voter. And yes, Libertarians do not have a universal stance on abortion so you can be pro-life and be a Libertarian.

Sunnykerr, I thought you post about Americans was very bigoted. You basically said that if a person disagrees with you on contraception then they are not reasonable. That is totally disrespectful and intolerant toward a lot of people.
For example, you shouldn't bash and spread hate on Catholics because they think contraception is wrong.
Bashing a Catholic because of their religious views on birth control is no different than radical religious groups having signs that say God hates gay people or that gay people will go to Hell.


TheAngel, I know I get on your nerves but I will thank you for giving a truthful answer to my question about the bias on here.


When posters on here refuse to answer the question or try to downplay, I just think of FOX News and MSNBC. If you're biased, you're biased. No ifs, ands, or buts. Be mature about it, own up to it, and admit it.

[_vega_]

Meh, Catholics nowadays think contraception is needed. Most just let it slide as the Pope being a little crazy on that subject.

It's really rare to find a community with a good or even halfway decent level of education where Catholics do think that using contraception is wrong. So that's a pretty terrible example to debate Sunny's beliefs, because the correlation here would lead us to believe the same as her.

[Avatar]

Everyone has their biases, Jacob. Including me. And you. They come from your upbringing, your sense of values, and sometimes your religion. That's inevitable. Don't see what that has to do with women's rights, though.

[Gray Ghost]

Avatar, I'm sorry I didn't quite understand you. Did you say that this board and its posters have a bias? Can you repeat what you said?

[TheAngel]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post) Avatar, I'm sorry I didn't quite understand you. Did you say that this board and its posters have a bias? Can you repeat what you said?

My, what with that scathing wit, I can't imagine that you're still single

You have a bias yourself. Don't be so "holier than thou".

[Gray Ghost]

TheAngel, you're such a hypocrite. You don't want people to make fun of you because you're gay yet you insult me about being single. Interesting.

[Cristofle]

Planned Parenthood has a poll up asking which of these statements regarding women's rights recently has been the most offensive:

https://secure.ppaction.org/site/SPa...2cq8m2.app209b

The full clips are up at the link, but the choices are:

-Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA): Women's voices are "not relevant" to the debate over birth control.
-Rick Santorum Super PAC supporter Foster Friess suggests "aspirin between the knees" as contraception.
-Freshman Illinois Rep. Joe Walsh on the birth control issue: "This is not about women."
-Rick Santorum's baseless attack on prenatal testing
-Mitt Romney's false claims about the birth control rule

Tough choices, lol. But I'm leaning towards one of the first two.

Also, Romney's support among women is plummeting.

As Contraception Fight Takes Center Stage, Women Voters Turning From Romney (CHART) | TPM2012

Quinnipiac University released new numbers on Wednesday that showed a troubling trend for the former governor. In three months, he’d gone from a positive split on favorability with women (33 - 30) to a substantially negative one (30 - 45) in Quinnipiac’s numbers.

[sunnykerr]

I do believe we talked about name-calling on this board and how it is not acceptable nor will it be tolerated.

Also, I'd reiterate that just because someone says something that comes off pretty dumb doesn't mean we all have to underscore it. Sometimes, it pretty much speaks for itself.

Sunnykerr, I thought you post about Americans was very bigoted. You basically said that if a person disagrees with you on contraception then they are not reasonable. That is totally disrespectful and intolerant toward a lot of people. For example, you shouldn't bash and spread hate on Catholics because they think contraception is wrong. Bashing a Catholic because of their religious views on birth control is no different than radical religious groups having signs that say God hates gay people or that gay people will go to Hell.

You shouldn't make accusations you can't back up, Jacob. So, by all means, show your cards here. I refuse to make this topic, which is about Women's Rights, another iteration of your wouldbe blog.

It's really rare to find a community with a good or even halfway decent level of education where Catholics do think that using contraception is wrong. So that's a pretty terrible example to debate Sunny's beliefs, because the correlation here would lead us to believe the same as her.

Thank you.

I'm not sure where Catholicism came into play in this debate, but basically the point stands, doesn't it? Most Catholics believe in contraception nowadays. It's certainly what I've seen around me, anyway.

I do think, to bring us back to topic, which is seriously getting lost in all of this "someone needs their own blog" stuff, is a sign of changing times for women of beliefs.

If even the Church, which is of course very conservative and traditionalist by nature, can be a place where women exert control over their own body and/or lives, then obviously the status of women is moving forward.

[TheAngel]

I don't know very many Catholics. One of my friends from high school is a born-again Catholic. He converted in his early 20s and has a fairly conservative and traditional view of it. They're pregnant with their fifth child and they're only 25. Unfortunately, they don't have the resources to support a family this large and so far they've been lucky in that none of their children have developed major health problems and they haven't required any extravagant expenses but it scares me to see the world trending in this direction again. With today's cost of living, I don't see how people can expect to afford huge families. I know money isn't everything, but tell that to a hospital who wants their medical bills or a mechanic who just replaced the transmission in your car.

[Gray Ghost]

Sunnykerr, you're putting a smile on my face again. Thanks.
If this was my own personal blog, you guys would have died of heart attacks with seeing things I had posted. I would also be using foul language constantly too. If you're willing to finance a blog for me, I will gladly leave this board and go blog. You foot the bill and I'm gone.
And if you're gonna "discipline" me, then why not talk to TheAngel? She made a little cute comment about me being single. Does she get a pass since she's gay?

I also can't show any cards because I'm not a minority. I'm an evil white male who has everything handed to him on a silver platter his whole life.

Good night and good luck.