[Vanora]

Women's Rights Discussion Thread # 3


Eleanor, Judge of Arborea (1347-1404)

In the last thread, we were discussing whether gender influences the shape of your brain.

[TheAngel]

I don't care if my brain is different from a male's. I just don't think it is. I really don't see as many gender differences that appear to be biological as I see the result of social influence that puts different pressure on different genders.
I wonder, if you raise kids without looking at socially constructed gender norms, how many girls would pick up toy guns and how many boys would pick up Barbie Dolls?

[Vanora]

That pressure is intense. In countries like the US or UK pressure is also extreme on boys to behave in a certain way. In some societies men are far more relaxed in the way they hang out with other men and about being polite when talking to or about women. In especially the US that is somehow not cool.

[sunnykerr]

Well, sure, society and family can put all kinds of pressure on both men and women to follow certain roles.

I think the point is that it's not a given.

Men and women may be very different from each other, but then no two people are alike, so it's really pointless to make that demarkation at gender.

We are who we are and there's a world of different kinds of pressures on us to behave in certain ways. Doesn't mean there's a genetic line in the sand when it comes to gender.

[Vanora]

If the differences between women and men would have been completely dominated by genes, societies would not nearly defer as much as they do.

Even if you look at people from the same country in different times, you see huge differences in expectations based on gender. Romans used to think wearing pants made 'Barbarians' look feminine. That sure got twisted upside down later

[Gray Ghost]

Way too sensitive. I clearly stated facts and you took it like I was bashing women. I did no such thing. Just because two things are different, does not mean that one is better than the other, or that one is superior to the other.

People's brains are different. It doesn't have anything to do with them being valued as less or better than anyone. It also doesn't mean that there is some type of injustice because of their brain.

And yes, your brain dictates pretty much everything that you do. That's just common sense.

Simma down now!


Please read the disclaimer:
Simma down now is an old SNL reference. Cheri Oteri was the one that said on SNL.

[Avatar]

I still don't understand why that matters. Everyone's brain is different, that's part of what makes you you. If one guy likes sports, and another don't, is that because their brains are wired differently? Or is that just how it is? And in that case, isn't the differenences between men and women too just how it is?

[TheAngel]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post) Way too sensitive. I clearly stated facts and you took it like I was bashing women. I did no such thing. Just because two things are different, does not mean that one is better than the other, or that one is superior to the other. People's brains are different. It doesn't have anything to do with them being valued as less or better than anyone. It also doesn't mean that there is some type of injustice because of their brain. And yes, your brain dictates pretty much everything that you do. That's just common sense. Simma down now! Please read the disclaimer: Simma down now is an old SNL reference. Cheri Oteri was the one that said on SNL.

People's brains are different. But I think the issue we're look at is, are they born different or are those differences the result of environment. It's a nature vs nurture debate. The argument is not whether or not peoples' brains are different. That's a no-brainer (pun intended). But the question is really whether men and womens' brains differ at some biological level or if it's simply the result of societal pressures upon individuals as they grow up to assume certain gender norms.

[Vanora]

Both women and men (boys and girls too) suffer by the expectations placed on them by the society they grow up in. The further they deviate from 'the norm' in that time and place, the more they have to either bend or become isolated (by joining a subculture for instance or close the windows and live behind a computerscreen).

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post) Way too sensitive. I clearly stated facts and you took it like I was bashing women.

Who is you?

In case you were talking to me (since I was the last one before your post): my comment was to Sunnykerr, and about the nature versus nurture thing and no reaction to you.

[sunnykerr]

I quite agree that the brain dictates everything we do... up to a point. For instead, it's also be proven that organ malfunction of all kinds can affect energy, emotionality, reflexes, and so forth.

I just don't understand how that means men and women are fundamentally different.

[fetch]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post) Way too sensitive. I clearly stated facts and you took it like I was bashing women. I did no such thing. Just because two things are different, does not mean that one is better than the other, or that one is superior to the other. People's brains are different. It doesn't have anything to do with them being valued as less or better than anyone. It also doesn't mean that there is some type of injustice because of their brain. And yes, your brain dictates pretty much everything that you do. That's just common sense. Simma down now! Please read the disclaimer: Simma down now is an old SNL reference. Cheri Oteri was the one that said on SNL.

No one said you were bashing women. People were asking for relevance to the topic of wage gaps and the glass ceiling, and you provided no reason.

[sunnykerr]

That's a good point. Should salary be based on brain scans?

I think I'd earn more if that was the case...

[Gray Ghost]

Nope, because that would be discrimination. People who have no control over how their brain looks.

It's hard to shed the labels, stereotypes, and assumptions about gender because in a way, it's human nature. Society in a way tells us what to think when it comes to gender.

[fetch]

It may be hard, but it should be done. Because after all, it's just labels and stereotypes.

[sunnykerr]

And society tells us way too many things for us to buy into all of them.

Not to mention that it changes its mind every other week.

Besides, while we're talking brain scans... there's also the possibility that we might choose to think for ourselves in all of this, no?