News & Politics - Woman's Rights

rose parade · 10-20-2008, 03:45 PM

I have to do a presentation on Woman's Rights (within the work place, ect) for school and I was wondering what everybody's thoughts were and if anybody had some good insights for me to write in the paper.

***Jerry D*** · 10-20-2008, 07:54 PM

Hi Lucy!

I think that women’s rights is an important topic, and while women in the United States have rightfully made great strides over the course of the twentieth century and up until now, I feel that some sexism does still unfortunately exist, and there still is a level of inequality in pay and in opportunity for advancement in many sectors of the working world.

I also think that in many countries, especially in Third World countries, women don’t enjoy the basic rights that they should have, and there are certain societies that still treat women like second class citizens or worse. I think a good example of this is in countries that are ruled by fundamentalist Islamic sects, where women have to wear burqas in public, or certain societies that practice certain barbaric rituals when it comes to women.

In short, while I feel that women have made great strides, we as a society need to do more to ensure that everyone achieves equal rights.

I hope this helps.

**TheAngel** · 10-21-2008, 05:27 AM

I feel like one place, especially in the US, where we're really not making strides in women's rights, is that of the working mother. The US allows significantly less maternity (and paternity) leave than other developed countries. It also basically disqualifies women from advancement in a lot of jobs.
I also don't think women in the US and most countries will have equal rights until they're allowed in all aspects of the military. Other countries allow women in combat roles (Israel is the main one that comes to mind) and they seem quite capable.
Religion always plays roles in women's rights violations, in other countries and in the US. A lot of fundamental religions, be it Christian Fundamentalists or Islam or others, have very conservative roles for women, which include taking away their right to learn and go to school, to work and to drive, and to wear what they want to wear. Obviously, as long as this is going on, women won't ever be equal.

Indian Summer · 10-21-2008, 06:17 AM

Shirin Ebadi recently gave an interview addressing this, I think with CNN. Of course, she used an example with Iran, where if a brother and a sister are attacked on a street, the brother will get twice the amount of damages as a result since his life is twice as valuable as the sister's due to his gender. I'm only repeating what she said since I can't claim to be an expert on Iranian law, but.. it's certainly disconcerting to consider.

One of my professors grew up as a member of an indigenous tribe in Africa, and it's really interesting to hear her address this issue, especially concerning female genital mutilation. As far as she's concerned, a lot of the hostility toward the practice is a result of ethnocentrism, which... I don't know. While I respect her opinion and in a lot of ways will defer to it since she obviously has a different outlook on these things than me (and there is that element of "why should I be offended if she's not?" but that's a complicated psychological thing and not worth getting into right now), that's something that... I don't think the reason the western world tends to look at that practice in disgust is purely an ethnocentric reaction. Obviously, that's part of it, but to me the issue is more with the unnecessary pain, risk of infection and death, and less to do with the notion in some cultures that women shouldn't experience sexual pleasure. That's a part of it, certainly, but I don't think my reaction's due to ethnocentrism. It squicks me out, so to speak, but I'm also against unnecessary surgeries that are "okay" in the western world, and they're also usually safer and have less potential to be scarring than that.

As far as United States policy goes, I'm not entirely sure what to think of the maternity leave issue. On one hand, I think it could benefit from being a little longer, but on the other, people have to decide if they want rights to be equal among the sexes or women to have a running start, so to speak. It's kind of like the draft issue. Lots of women will talk about how they deserve to hold the same jobs as men and make the same salaries, but many of them will suddenly get really quiet when asked if that means women should be subject to a draft as well as men if it becomes necessary.

fetch · 10-21-2008, 10:10 AM

Then there's abortion rights, which are always under attack in America, too.

Also there's a gap between woman's rights ad plain sexism. While women are getting more rights in western society, it is still expected for women to take care of the house, and demands for how women are "supposed" to look are getting sterner. More and more girls are struggling with eating disorders and from younger ages each year.
Still women are faced with a glass ceiling at work, and are paid less than men for doing equal jobs.

Rape is still considered mainly a woman's issie, though most rape is by men

Some links: If a man commits a rape, then he has, on average, a less than 1% chance of being convicted. Julie Bindel investigates why is rape so easy to get away with | Society | The Guardian

FOX Sports on MSN - More Sports - Girl, 12, told she can't play ball with boys

De Anza gang rape case:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5422348?nclick_check=1

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5628572?nclick_check=1

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5956637

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5950221

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5960046

Jen Jaree · 10-23-2008, 04:59 PM

In Canada we get a paid year maternaity leave. I think the US maybe one of the few countries in the world without maternaity leave. I do find the world more sexist than racist. I don't know about how women are paid compared to men for gender neutral jobs like restaraunt work I can see them being paid equally. Since equal pay has never been brought up in Canadian politics I am going guess we may have equal pay. Abortion isn't as big of a hot button here so as a woman I am not worried about it being overturned. There are rarely pro-life picketers protesting outside clinics. Even though the Iranian goverment is against womens rights a poll showed that most of the Iranian people are for womens rights. Just because the goverment is sexist doesn't mean the people are. When I hear stories about how women are treated in some countries I want to hurl

.

migamoo · 10-24-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen Jaree (View Post)

I think the US maybe one of the few countries in the world without maternaity leave.

We do have it, but I think it's only three months or so.

**Cristofle** · 10-24-2008, 08:36 PM

The pay situation in the US is also something to look at. Statistically, women only make 77 cents to every man's dollar.

**Mio** · 10-24-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen Jaree (View Post)

In Canada we get a paid year maternaity leave. I think the US maybe one of the few countries in the world without maternaity leave. I do find the world more sexist than racist. I don't know about how women are paid compared to men for gender neutral jobs like restaraunt work I can see them being paid equally. Since equal pay has never been brought up in Canadian politics I am going guess we may have equal pay. Abortion isn't as big of a hot button here so as a woman I am not worried about it being overturned. There are rarely pro-life picketers protesting outside clinics. Even though the Iranian goverment is against womens rights a poll showed that most of the Iranian people are for womens rights. Just because the goverment is sexist doesn't mean the people are. When I hear stories about how women are treated in some countries I want to hurl

.

I think it's actually two now.

Indian Summer · 10-25-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post)

The pay situation in the US is also something to look at. Statistically, women only make 77 cents to every man's dollar.

^I'm more concerned about this than the maternity leave situation, tbh. I know I'm going to come off weird saying this, but I don't necessarily think women should be entitled to a longer maternity leave. Sometimes I feel like this is an issue where women want to be equal to men except when it benefits them to be women. Maternity leave and whether or not a woman should be drafted are the two most obvious examples, but I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of right now, either.

The way I look at it, if I want to be respected and considered an equal in the workplace, I need to take my job seriously and prioritize. If I have an interest in reaching the top echelons of my career, I can't afford to be taking a year off for maternity leave and then coming back in and expecting to step back into the same position or get a promotion shortly after. If I'm up for a promotion against a man, I can't exactly blame an employer who looks at more reliable if I've just been out of work for months/years with a child, especially if there's a possibility I'll have another. I'm not saying it's "right" or "fair," but sometimes having equal rights isn't about fairness.

I'm not saying women shouldn't get pregnant when they're looking to further their careers, but that a truly equal footing for men and women would end up giving men a step up if that's the case. If a man and a woman are equally qualified for a position, making the same amount, have the same connections, etc., which would you promote? The woman of child-bearing age who could end up getting pregnant and being on maternity leave for a year, or the man who either won't be taking a paternity leave, or taking a much shorter leave? There's inherently more risk in employing a young female than there is in employing a male if maternity leave is expanded. Of course, this all goes out the window if maternity and paternity leave are equal lengths, but realistically, I can't see a man getting a year off of work after his wife gives birth here.

cookiely · 10-25-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

The way I look at it, if I want to be respected and considered an equal in the workplace, I need to take my job seriously and prioritize. If I have an interest in reaching the top echelons of my career, I can't afford to be taking a year off for maternity leave and then coming back in and expecting to step back into the same position or get a promotion shortly after. If I'm up for a promotion against a man, I can't exactly blame an employer who looks at more reliable if I've just been out of work for months/years with a child, especially if there's a possibility I'll have another. I'm not saying it's "right" or "fair," but sometimes having equal rights isn't about fairness.

I'm not saying women shouldn't get pregnant when they're looking to further their careers, but that a truly equal footing for men and women would end up giving men a step up if that's the case. If a man and a woman are equally qualified for a position, making the same amount, have the same connections, etc., which would you promote? The woman of child-bearing age who could end up getting pregnant and being on maternity leave for a year, or the man who either won't be taking a paternity leave, or taking a much shorter leave? There's inherently more risk in employing a young female than there is in employing a male if maternity leave is expanded. Of course, this all goes out the window if maternity and paternity leave are equal lengths, but realistically, I can't see a man getting a year off of work after his wife gives birth here.

this is one of the main reasons, why there is still such a large salary gap between men and women. And if I am honest, I can`t really be mad with those managers, because they are only acting logically.

The only thing a society can do, is to split maternity leave into paternity and maternity leave.

2 years ago we introduced a new law here in Germany that allowed fathers to take
paternity leave. And while it is still not as common as the maternity leave, it is becoming more and more popular.So it is actually working here and Germany is when it comes to equality between men and women not as far as many other european countries or the US.

Of course it will take decades till a change inside the heads of people has really taken place.

and while we have come far in the last century, it will still be a long way till we have truly reached equality.

It is not only the big things like the salary gap, or the lack of women in leading positions, it is also all those small things, like that most leading characters in movies or on tv are male.

Here is a interesting study about the way females are represented in kid shows
Geena Davis Institute

**TheAngel** · 10-27-2008, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Summer (View Post)

^I'm more concerned about this than the maternity leave situation, tbh. I know I'm going to come off weird saying this, but I don't necessarily think women should be entitled to a longer maternity leave. Sometimes I feel like this is an issue where women want to be equal to men except when it benefits them to be women. Maternity leave and whether or not a woman should be drafted are the two most obvious examples, but I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of right now, either.

The way I look at it, if I want to be respected and considered an equal in the workplace, I need to take my job seriously and prioritize. If I have an interest in reaching the top echelons of my career, I can't afford to be taking a year off for maternity leave and then coming back in and expecting to step back into the same position or get a promotion shortly after. If I'm up for a promotion against a man, I can't exactly blame an employer who looks at more reliable if I've just been out of work for months/years with a child, especially if there's a possibility I'll have another. I'm not saying it's "right" or "fair," but sometimes having equal rights isn't about fairness.

I'm not saying women shouldn't get pregnant when they're looking to further their careers, but that a truly equal footing for men and women would end up giving men a step up if that's the case. If a man and a woman are equally qualified for a position, making the same amount, have the same connections, etc., which would you promote? The woman of child-bearing age who could end up getting pregnant and being on maternity leave for a year, or the man who either won't be taking a paternity leave, or taking a much shorter leave? There's inherently more risk in employing a young female than there is in employing a male if maternity leave is expanded. Of course, this all goes out the window if maternity and paternity leave are equal lengths, but realistically, I can't see a man getting a year off of work after his wife gives birth here.

I don't think women that take a year of maternity leave should expect to become CEO of a major company or top partner of their Law Office the week after they come back. I do think women should have the option, though, of taking a year off without potentially losing their jobs. It's a lot healthier for a baby to stay out of daycare early on, it's also financially better on a family for women to be able to take care of their own child. I think paternity leave should be offered as well for the same amount of time.
I'm not so naive as to think that a women should take a year off and then be promoted and included in the same group of her male co-workers that maintained their positions for that year that she was gone. Of course not.

That being said, promotions should be made on the basis that a women "might" get pregnant. I'm a female of child-bearing age but I have no interest in having children right now and to be honest, I don't have an interest in ever having children. That may change at some point, but I shouldn't be penalized for it because that's sexism at its finest. Right now my career is very important to me and I have more interest in that than a family, so if some man was promoted over me just because I "might" be having a baby, hypothetically, then yeah, I'd be pretty ticked off and I think that's sexism.

fetch · 10-27-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

That being said, promotions should be made on the basis that a women "might" get pregnant. I'm a female of child-bearing age but I have no interest in having children right now and to be honest, I don't have an interest in ever having children. That may change at some point, but I shouldn't be penalized for it because that's sexism at its finest. Right now my career is very important to me and I have more interest in that than a family, so if some man was promoted over me just because I "might" be having a baby, hypothetically, then yeah, I'd be pretty ticked off and I think that's sexism.

Exactly. The point is that women makes less working the same hours and doing the same job, whether they are mothers or not.
As for fathers being able to take paternity leave, I am for that as well. Patriarchy also hurts men.

**TheAngel** · 10-30-2008, 09:27 AM

Speaking of women's rights. Did you hear this new one. Women pay more for Healthcare than Men.

This again, goes with my point. I have no intention of ever having children but end up being penalized for it because I am a woman of "childbearing age". It's rediculous. I shouldn't have to pay for services I may "potentially use". Why can't premiums be changed after becoming pregnant in order to compensate?

fetch · 10-30-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

Speaking of women's rights. Did you hear this new one. Women pay more for Healthcare than Men.

This again, goes with my point. I have no intention of ever having children but end up being penalized for it because I am a woman of "childbearing age". It's rediculous. I shouldn't have to pay for services I may "potentially use". Why can't premiums be changed after becoming pregnant in order to compensate?

It's stupid, because men are more prone to heart disease, for example, and that's not taken into consideration.