News & Politics - What do you think of Dubai?

**sunnykerr** · 08-08-2008, 08:36 PM

I came across this bit of news the other day (but

ate my post):

Quote:

Dubai buys into Cirque du Soleil

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) | Government-controlled investment firms in Dubai said Wednesday they acquired a 20 percent stake in the international circus touring company Cirque du Soleil.

Property developer Nakheel and investment company Istithmar World Capital did not say how much they paid for their share of the group, which began performing in Quebec in 1984 and today is a mainstay of theaters in Las Vegas and the Far East.

The agreement keeps control of the Montreal entertainment company in the hands of founder Guy Laliberte, putting to rest for now speculation that the troupe would be sold outright.

"This partnership is the best of both worlds for me and my management team," Mr. Laliberte said in a joint statement with Nakheel and Istithmar. "We can keep control of our creative challenges and operations while accelerating our growth doing projects all over the world."

Nakheel and Istithmar are part of Dubai World, a diversified holding company owned by the government of Dubai.

Nakheel, one of Dubai's biggest developers, and Cirque du Soleil agreed in May to build a theater on Palm Jumeira, a massive palm-shaped island housing development Nakheel is building in the Persian Gulf. The 1,800-seat facility is expected to house a permanent Cirque du Soleil show beginning in summer 2011.

Istithmar Chief Executive Officer David Jackson said the deal represented the company's first involving live entertainment, an area of investment he called "key to our media focus."

More than 100,000 visitors attended a monthlong run of a Cirque du Soleil performance in Dubai last year, the companies said.

Dubai World had an indirect interest in Cirque du Soleil's success even before Wednesday's deal was announced. The company owns a minority stake in casino operator MGM Mirage Inc., which operates Las Vegas hotels that host the circus' shows.

Washington Times - Dubai buys into Cirque du Soleil

Now, granted, I am a Montrealer, so this bit of news hit close to home. But Dubai's been on my mind lately and I thought it could make for a nice topic on here.

60 Minutes did an "expose" on the city/state last weekend. Just an exploration of what's going on over there and what the implications may be for the world at large.

Now, far be it from me to begrudge any country/city/state their right to compete on the world market and do everything they can to ensure that they thrive. I think we could all learn a thing or two about actively pursuing our best interests as communities.

However, I sometimes wonder about the cost of all this. As pointed out in the 60 Minutes documentary, and as was well known way before they talked about it, civil rights in Dubai are a bit dodgy. It's the biggest construction site in the world, but the workers are working in ridiculously harsh conditions (12-hour days, 6-day weeks, no holidays).

Aside from the immediate human costs, I also wonder about the safety codes these new, gavity-defying constructions are observing. Not to mention that large portions of it are built on man-made islands. How solid are those? Would one hurrican sweep it all away?

And how much pollution is all this creating? Again, my country's been polluting the world for decades now, so it hardly seems fair to come down on an up-and-coming region for their pollution. But it is a concern of mine.

So, what do you all think? Is Dubai doing what any other business-savvy city/state would do? Is it creating concerns and problems?

sum1 · 08-11-2008, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

civil rights in Dubai are a bit dodgy.

I've heard bad things about Dubai. They encourage foreigners to come there and then it turns out to be like that.

Last I heard, a British woman in Dubai was facing 6 years in prison for "indecency in a public place", drinking alcohol and having an affair. Sex outside marriage is illegal there. Can't kiss in public either. Homosexuality is out too. They've got "Decency police" going around arresting people. What fun.

Maybe_Tomorrow · 08-11-2008, 08:45 AM

I'm not sure of the details completly, but i dont think it was even an affair. It was sex outside of marriage though. It is very extreme, but in regards to that woman, when you visit another country you do have to abide by their laws. I know it can be difficult for us to understand in the west but this is the culture they live by and it something we have to respect when visiting their country. If a person from Dubai came to American or Britain and acted in a way that was deemed an offence but in a way considered acceptable in their own country, i would be annoyed if they didn't face punishment simply because it's seen as accepatable behaviour in their culture. Do i think there extreme and outdated? Yes. But i dont think being from another culture with a different set of values excuses you.

sum1 · 08-11-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe_Tomorrow (View Post)

I'm not sure of the details completly, but i dont think it was even an affair. It was sex outside of marriage though. It is very extreme, but in regards to that woman, when you visit another country you do have to abide by their laws. I know it can be difficult for us to understand in the west but this is the culture they live by and it something we have to respect when visiting their country. If a person from Dubai came to American or Britain and acted in a way that was deemed an offence but in a way considered acceptable in their own country, i would be annoyed if they didn't face punishment simply because it's seen as accepatable behaviour in their culture. Do i think there extreme and outdated? Yes. But i dont think being from another culture with a different set of values excuses you.

I don't think culture justifies unfair punishments and restrictive laws. Does culture justify punishing somebody for homosexuality?

rolf321 · 08-11-2008, 02:36 PM

I used to transit through there a lot with Emirates.

Personally I am never going back again.

They jailed a guy for 4 years for having 0.002g of cannabis stuck to his shoe!!

BBC NEWS | UK | Tourists warned of UAE drug laws

**vc318** · 08-11-2008, 02:52 PM

I think you always have to consider the laws no matter where you visit. For example, you wouldn't go to a restaurant in another country and expect to pay in your currency. Also, I think it's a given anywhere that if your'e caught with drugs on you - no matter the amount - you're arrested, right? I don't think many places let that go unless you're honest about it upfront. Basically, the rules in the country can't just come to a halt because you're vacationing there. Hopefully, law enforcement will be kind enough to let it go but that's their decision.

sum1 · 08-11-2008, 06:23 PM

Obviously it's wise to follow the laws of whatever country you're in, but that doesn't mean the laws can't be unjust. Like if a country's laws say women aren't allowed to drive, for example.

**sunnykerr** · 08-11-2008, 07:51 PM

Of course, in that instance, being a woman and getting behind the wheel would probably not be the most productive way of getting that law struck down.

I have to wonder with Dubai if, like China has, it'll essentially buy our silence, as it were. If Dubai becomes a big enough player on the world market, will our governments really care and dare to submit protests against it? It's not like anyone's really protesting now anyway.

**vc318** · 08-11-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

Obviously it's wise to follow the laws of whatever country you're in, but that doesn't mean the laws can't be unjust. Like if a country's laws say women aren't allowed to drive, for example.

I doubt the country cares very much if you think their laws are unjust or not. That's why it's their laws. I'm sure those countries are thinking a few things about the U.S. and its laws too.

Maybe_Tomorrow · 08-12-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

I don't think culture justifies unfair punishments and restrictive laws. Does culture justify punishing somebody for homosexuality?

Of course not. I certainly dont understand, or agree, with a lot of their in my western opinions, outdated laws. But this is how they live. And i wouldn't go to that country and flout their laws just because i think it's my god given right as a western civillian to be exempt from them because that isn't how i live in my own country.

stumps101 · 08-12-2008, 08:09 AM

I spent my childhood in the UAE .. I moved from a city near Dubai when I was 16 and really, while I do remember it fondly, I don't exactly think it's the best place to live.

It's a great place to earn quick money and just enjoy life and live hassle free . However, there really are no laws and civil rights are very dodgy there. Every case is different and usually results are very extreme. Caught with drugs ... you're in for life. Which ok I get. However, I've read cases where people were jailed and fined and then deported for being seen spitting on the ground. I've talked to someone who was caught watching a porn movie and jailed for 3 years. But I've also read cases where people caught killing others were let go free. It's just really off-putting .. there are no laws. And as mentioned, in some things it's very strict. It's better than Saudia Arabia in that women don't have to wear burkas when outside and all but

The UAE has always been extreme like that even though it's one of the most open Arab countries. I've always wondered why no one protests.

sum1 · 08-12-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

Of course, in that instance, being a woman and getting behind the wheel would probably not be the most productive way of getting that law struck down.

No, but obviously the law should be changed. Women have as much right to drive as men. No matter what country they're in. It's always wise to obey the laws of whatever country you're in, but that doesn't mean those laws shouldn't be changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post)

I doubt the country cares very much if you think their laws are unjust or not. That's why it's their laws. I'm sure those countries are thinking a few things about the U.S. and its laws too.

Whether they care about my views is not the issue. And of course there are unust laws in western countries like the US. Those unjust laws should be changed. Like laws against gay marriage in various US states, laws against abortion in certain western countries, or even California's intrusive law against trans-fats. It all needs to go. Same as laws (in any country) banning homosexuality or women driving or whatever. Passing restrictive laws is an abuse of power and an oppression of the people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe_Tomorrow (View Post)

Of course not. I certainly dont understand, or agree, with a lot of their in my western opinions, outdated laws. But this is how they live. And i wouldn't go to that country and flout their laws just because i think it's my god given right as a western civillian to be exempt from them because that isn't how i live in my own country.

Sure, don't go to their country and flout their laws. But feel free to criticise laws which deserve to be criticsed. I'd never go to a country like Dubai that has so many restrictive laws.

**sunnykerr** · 08-13-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

No, but obviously the law should be changed. Women have as much right to drive as men. No matter what country they're in. It's always wise to obey the laws of whatever country you're in, but that doesn't mean those laws shouldn't be changed.

Well, of course the law should be changed. And, as you say so aptly, it is most wise to obey the laws of whatever land you find yourself in.

I suppose it's just a matter of finding ways to change the law without making it seem like we're telling another country what to do with their domestic policies. Because, while there's no denying that this is indeed a law that is wrong, there's also no denying that we have to respect state sovereignty.

Otherwise, for instance, the sheer pressure of world opinion would have long ago banned the death penalty and the right to bear arms in the States.