*Ledi*

I'm sure everyone knows about this by now, but how do you feel about it?

To be honest, I feel like I've had it with this. I am not a hateful person in any way, but this kind of behaviour is ridiculous. I completely understand why people would be offended by the Pope's comments, but that is no reason to go and destroy whatever's related to Christianity. I feel like the tiniest thing can set these people off and it is so ridiculous. The Pope wasn't exactly being the smartest person alive when he made those comments, but that doesn't justify what these people are doing. I feel like we can't do anything that these people don't approve of, or they'll threaten our lives. It's pathetic.

Keep in mind that I have nothing against muslims considering that pretty much my whole family is muslim. But these people give them and every other peaceful muslim a bad name, and the sad thing is that they're not even true muslims. A real muslim would never do what they do. I hate it. Why can't they just protest against this peacefully like any other normal human being?

ROCKSTAR

Somebody on a News channel said something like, "I hope they don't go on a violent rampage to prove that they're not violent." What troubles me is the generality of a statement like that, but I agree with regards to the minority that are willing to cause violence over some statements made.

TokyoNiGHTS

This doesn't do anything but play right into the comments the Pope made and just furthers the stereotype that surrounds the religion. It's all really a big mess as ROCKSTAR pointed out, as even media outlets promote the stereotype. It's a vicious cycle really. But I can understand the general, non violent, anger from Muslims over the Popes comments. Given his influence and how many people listen to him its rather damaging to say something like that.

But this guy has been slipping up alot lately. Recently he also said that spreading the word of god is more important that giving aid to countries in need.

AlexEvans

While I disagree with the Pope on many things, and I'm not a Christian, I like his main thesis, that faith and reason must be compatible with each other.

I'm not sure what in his address can be considered false. Undiplomatic perhaps, but not false, and the topic of forced conversions is a timely one.

His address would have been more comprehensive if he'd noted efforts to enhance the role of reason within Islam, in the ijtihad tradition. But then, his main topic was the role of reason within the Catholic church.

I get the impression very few people have read or heard what the Pope actually said, which is disappointing but not surprising.

The violent reaction is similarly disappointing but not surprising. We have seen similar reactions to cartoons, false news reports, etc, etc. The answer is not to muzzle ourselves; it's perfectly appropriate for the leader of a religion to point to reasons why he feels other religions are false, or to use examples for contrast in discussing the nature of his own faith.

TheAngel

I guess he proved his point then didn't he. Islam is not a violent religion, but a lot of people don't see it that way because violence is the public face if Islam. When there was so much anti-homosexuality within the church, a number of Christians publically united against it, allowing homosexuality into the church. I saw numerous flyers up about it in my small hometown of 25,000. But I haven't seen that much of a united Muslim/Islamic front against the violent outbreaks of extremist organizations, probably because this has been common over the past several years and they're tired of talking about it.
I don't really think that what the Pope said was wrong, he seemed to be talking about extremist movements, although I still haven't seen a full transcript of his speech so I may chanage my mind. But, like I said, I guess the Pope proved his point.
People speak out about Christianity every day. But I have yet to light something on fire or take a life because of it.

sunnykerr

Well, whether he's wrong or he's right... he's the Pope! I mean, what's he gonna say? "You know who I think gets it right, it's that other religion"? I mean, come on.

TokyoNiGHTS

I just think its such an incredibly touchy subject because we know how the extremists in the group react to this stuff. So talking about it is very risky, which is ofcourse sad but at the sametime its very risky. I think really the best thing that could happen is what you brought up about Muslim groups coming out and openly protesting them. There was a discussion on that on Tucker Carlson and it was brought up that there are protests about it. Personally I haven't seen them, maybe its just the media not showing them but unless its something that's widely broadcasted its not going to do any good.

Having someone of a different religion speak out on it isn't going to do any good as we've seen. In terms of changing the minds of those extremists i'm not even sure that if regular Muslims spoke out against it would do anything to change their minds, in fact I really doubt it. But an important thing it would show is that the religion and people in it don't support that frame of thinking. There are alot of people who really do believe that the religion is based around violence and all the Pope speaking out on like that and the extremists doing what they've done does is almost validate that frame of thinking.

Raonaild

A couple of points:

The "Christians wouldn't react this way" defense should be qualified with "in the 21st century", because not that long ago various Christian groups could get very touchy over what may seem like very minor things today. Not that Muslims should be proud of behaving today like Christians did a few centuries ago.

The "why don't moderate Muslims stand up against the extremists" argument is tough, because I think when they do it's not well publicized, since it doesn't make for a dramatic story the way all the violence and fury does. Also, would you be so keen to speak out against such violent fanatics when they're also your neighbours? Maybe so from our priveleged North American vantage point, but in a place like Iraq, I think all the regular folk are trying to keep their heads down and draw as little attention to themselves as possible. I can sympathize with that.

And why is this even news? The Pope makes some obscure reference in some academic lecture, and because it happens to refer to Islam suddenly it's a headline. It's like reporters have been following him just waiting for something like this to happen, knowing what trouble it would cause, then making a bigger deal out of it than I think it deserves and playing right into the hands of the extremists.

I don't agree with the Pope on a lot of things, but I support his right to say things I don't agree with. And in his defense, he didn't have to say much to set off this sort of irrationally angry response. No religion is beyond criticism, and we should not be bullied into silence.

quaist

I'm really sad about that whole issue (my avatar suggests it), and I don't think you could call this extremists muslims. The islam is a religion of peace, but sadly the media only shows the fundamentalists who have very less in common with their claimed 'religion'.

The "jihad" is a range of activities all based on the Arabic meaning of the word 'exerted effort.' In the Koran it's projected as exerting effort to change oneself.

News:

Vatican employs diplomacy to tame Muslim anger over pope's speech

AlexEvans

Yes, as well as holy war, but that's not what I was talking about.

*Ledi*

That is exactly what I meant. I am so tired of everyone being threatened by these people. It's so ridiculous, I can't even begin to explain how I feel about it.

quaist

'Holy war' is the interpretation of fundamentalists.

chicah

Nothing justifies the reactions. But at the same time, saying that what the Pope said wasn't very bad and offending isn't true either.

"What new has Muhammed brought? There you'll find only badness and inhumanity" isn't exactly the nicest thing to say about someones religious leader.
If this had been about any other religious group, for instance christians or jews, the reaction on what Pope said wouldn't be "not that bad". Although he is allowed to say whatever he wants, he should've predicted what would happen.

goodnightboy

Yes, yes, yes - what I hate most about this whole rampaging Muslim radicalism (other than the deaths and widespread destruction) is that it gives the moderate majority a bad name. It stinks. They're just hurting their fellow man. If Allah says that violence is wrong, how can they (these supposedly pious Muslims) go against the words of their God and do violence in his name?

It just really seems that they want a reason, any reason to wreck havoc. It pisses me off

TheAngel

The same way Christians can be hateful even though the Bible is a text that preaches love and acceptance for all and leaves final judgment in the hands of God. It was Jesus Christ himself that told the angry mob to allow he who is without sin to cast the first stone. But today we are all to willing to look around for a rock to hurl. The problem with Muslim extremists is that they have created such a perversion of their texts that they're able to justify what they have done, the same way killing in the name of any religion can be justified if you try hard enough. They're looking for someone to blame and because the west is the antithesis of the life they live (theirs being poor and restrained and the west being free and capitalist) they have discovered their "antichrist" or scapegoat basically.