[ceilirose]

The Democrats have majorities in both the Senate and House. I think once a final bill comes out of all the committees in the House a bill can pass with a public option among other reforms.

The Senate is more problematical - it looks like they can't get the 60 votes there needed to pass a bill with the public option.

The Senate can go the reconciliation route where you only need a simple majority - 50, 51 etc. It's how the Republicans pushed through Bush's massive tax cuts and the Medicare reform in 2003.

Obama and really his staff have seemed to be on the sidelines of this whole situation prefering to let Congress "fight" it out. The problem I see is that they didn't anticipate the craziness that would go on at these townhall meetings and that opponents of HC reform would use the tactics they have. That's fine but once this whole mess started someone should have come up with a plan to combat it. They didn't.

Now whether he can pull this off is another story. Word from the WH is that even his staff is split on the public option. I was wrong about him before during the campaign. To me he was too nice when the personal attacks started but he won - so there you go.

My opinion is that the Democrats just go for it - there is no bi-partisanship on this issue. The majority of Republicans want this to fail because it will help them politically in 2010 and 2012. Now on the flip side if it does pass and people sense that it could work - the Democrats win.

We already have death panels from the insurance companies - we just don't call them that. My former co-worker who had peritoneal cancer (originally thought to be ovarian cancer) lost her life about 3 weeks ago. Her insurance company wouldn't approve the last round of experimental treatment and that was that. Honestly I don't know if it would have helped but we'll never know. Thankfully she got hospice care are went peacefully at home.

[sunnykerr]

I think we all know that the Democrats have a problem with party discipline, so I'm sure they need to work on that.

But I really don't think they should abandon bi-partisanship on this one. If for no other reason than that I want health-care reform to last, as opposed to being struck down whenever the next Republican is sworn in as president.

More importantly, though, is that health care is really a social benefit. So there's no reason for anyone to balk from it. I know it's happening regardless, but I really don't think the people are that diametrically opposed.

Everyone wants good health care. For some reason, there's a segment of the population that thinks reform is gonna undermine the system that's already in place. So I think it's important to address that.

Re: Death panels.

I swear to God, Republicans (not all, but, you know, the hard right) have got some sort of mind-control device. Because they convinced people Saddam Hussein was in anyway connected to September 11, because they managed to cast doubt on John Kerry's service record and religious faith, and because of this death-panel nonsense.

It sure doesn't make anyone look very smart when they start spouting about that.

[wanderer78]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Re: Death panels. I swear to God, Republicans (not all, but, you know, the hard right) have got some sort of mind-control device. Because they convinced people Saddam Hussein was in anyway connected to September 11, because they managed to cast doubt on John Kerry's service record and religious faith, and because of this death-panel nonsense. It sure doesn't make anyone look very smart when they start spouting about that.

I agree 100%. And the sad thing is that it's working.

[ceilirose]

Wait..Palin had been quiet lately. I wonder why she hasn't chimed in with her opinion.

[sunnykerr]

She did, though.

She released some statement about not wanting death panels to decide who lives who dies and how she's grateful that she lives in a country where competition rules health care.

Or some malarkey like that.

I try not to listen to her, because she's the kind of person that makes me very sad.

I'm no expert. No one in the world ought to take my word for anything. And we're all entitled to our opinions...

But Sarah Palin, whatever the real person might be in there, is toxic. And the fact that anyone thinks she makes sense? Scares me.

[ceilirose]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) She did, though. She released some statement about not wanting death panels to decide who lives who dies and how she's grateful that she lives in a country where competition rules health care. Or some malarkey like that. I try not to listen to her, because she's the kind of person that makes me very sad. I'm no expert. No one in the world ought to take my word for anything. And we're all entitled to our opinions... But Sarah Palin, whatever the real person might be in there, is toxic. And the fact that anyone thinks she makes sense? Scares me.

But she hasn't said much since the "death panel" rheotoric, right? I know that Levi Johnston has had a lot to say but I thought she's been pretty quiet since that statement.

I'll admit thought that I pass over anything about her in the print media and either change the channel or hit the mute button when I see her on TV. I really can't handle her anymore.

[Callace]

She scares me too Ever since the election was running. I kept feeling that with her in power, things would get even worse than the Bush-regime. That people still take her seriously, after all the weird and scary things she has said, is really no good

As to this whole health care propaganda, it kind of makes me think about the end scene of The Wizard of Oz, where Dorothy and her gang was asked to "not look at the man behind the curtain" It's amazing how many people dont do that. When they hear something, dont they ever wonder who's pulling the strings? who is benefiting from telling them this?? At least when there's a huge fuss about it, someone got to want to "look behind the curtain"?

[wanderer78]

Personally, I do think Palin is what ended up sinking the McCain campaign, and for that I am grateful to her. At this point I just find her kind of amusing. Or maybe I'm thinking of Tina Fey.

[Callace]

I hope she's just amusing. But the line between amusing and dangerous goes by how man people who take her serious, and wants to follow her. (hopefully not that many. I agree that she didnt seem like much of an asset in the campaign )

[sunnykerr]

If no one else thought like her, she'd be amusing. Heck, if only an inconsequential minority thought like her, she'd be the biggest joke there is.

It's the fact that there are people out there who'll listen to her. Or who, with or without her, hold those sorts of whacked out beliefs. That's what scares me.

[Callace]

that is the danger. Let's just hope they never get enough power to force the rest of us to go along with them.

[V-Nessa]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) If no one else thought like her, she'd be amusing. Heck, if only an inconsequential minority thought like her, she'd be the biggest joke there is. It's the fact that there are people out there who'll listen to her. Or who, with or without her, hold those sorts of whacked out beliefs. That's what scares me.

Exactly. I can't understand why people follow and agree with most of what she says but sadly there are definitely many out there that do.

[sunnykerr]

But my point is that, had Sarah Palin never existed, there would still be people out there who think like her.

She's not the ringleader of any circus. Just the tip of an iceberg. A symptom of a "disease." A grain of sand in an ocean.

So, to me, Sarah Palin herself is the very definition of irrelevant. The only scary thing about her is her ability to act as a catalyst to all the people who hold similar weird world views.

But they'd be there whether she existed or not.

[V-Nessa]

Oh yes, very true; Kind of different but it makes me think of Michael Moore and how I think most of his views are so radical yet with or without him, there will still be people who will have those same views.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) So, to me, Sarah Palin herself is the very definition of irrelevant. The only scary thing about her is her ability to act as a catalyst to all the people who hold similar weird world views.

Like Joe the Plumber, both were truly "no big deal" but then again that's the attitude flying around about Obama as well.