News & Politics - US Election Coverage 2008 - Part 8 - Rock the vote! - Page 9

JW77 · 09-05-2008, 05:56 PM

From the AP - McCain, Obama tied in TV audiences

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

The media should be questioning her record because there are some definite red flags there. Ir remains to be seen as to if they will - I'm sure they don't want McCain to be more mad at them then they are right now.

Just curious...which red flags are you referring to?

**Cristofle** · 09-05-2008, 06:12 PM

Pick one. The trooper scandal. Her being affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party (wanting to secede from the US). Her initial endorsement of the bridge to nowhere. The lack of concern she has for the polar bears and environment in general. Her wanting Creationism taught in public school science classes. I could keep going, lol.

ceilirose · 09-05-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW77 (View Post)

From the AP - McCain, Obama tied in TV audiences

Just curious...which red flags are you referring to?

Well since I'm still at work and can't post very long - let's start with:

1. Accepting those nasty earmarks from Washington DC after she criticized them.

2. Leaving Wasilla in debt when the town had a surplus at the beginning of her administration.

3. Lying about selling the state jet on E-bay.

4. Her husband being in an Alaskan independent party for 7 years.

5. Troopergate.

6. Hiring a lobbyist for Wasilla and trashing them as part of the traditional corrupt atmosphere of DC in her speech.

7. Being for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

Gotta get back to work.

collide · 09-05-2008, 06:18 PM

Keith Olbermann on MSNBC got on them for showing the 9/11 video. He apologized for showing it.

ceilirose · 09-05-2008, 06:25 PM

The worst thing was reading that the RNC aired a video from a military funeral that featured actors - it was staged. It's just despicable. McCain was against the G.I. Bill and didn't even vote for it.

It's just unbelievable what they get away with. They're keeping Palin away from the press and I can't remember who said it today but Americans don't want to choose their VP because she shoots foxes or fishes or that she played basketball in high school. If she can't handle tough questions then she's not up for the job.

NYCity Boy · 09-05-2008, 07:13 PM

Just read an article that listed 5 Deeply disturbing things about the RNC that sparked my attention. the crux of it:

Quote:

5 Deeply Disturbing Things About Last Night’s RNC

5. The chant of the night was “Drill, Baby! Drill!”
Just as I thought we’d have both candidates dedicating themselves to clean and sustainable energy, an entire night passed without even the mention of wind or solar power.

Instead, the entire stadium was blanketed in signs that say “Drill Now” and “Drill Alaska Now, Baby!”.

Perhaps even more disturbing is the fact that most of these folks - and many watching at home (unless they all have a rich cousin in the oil biz?) - must truly think that drilling for oil in Alaska is going to bring the price of oil down at the pump.

Suddenly, clean energy apparently has nothing to do with “Reduce our Dependency on Foreign Oil.”

And that’s ludicrous.

4. Rudy Giuliani had nothing but disrespect for Barack Obama.

Everyone knows Rudy Giuliani thinks pretty highly of himself and is not afraid to speak his mind about others, but last night his disrespect and blatant personal attacks on Obama took his character to a new low.

“The first thing on his resume..” he began with his upper lip curled into a sneering smile, “was that he worked as a community organizer.” Then he laughed out loud, provoking the rest of the crowd to join in for a full minute.

Does the GOP think community isn’t a critical element in a successful, thriving society?

3. “Country First” is the new theme of the Republican campaign.

Although the slogan is harmless at first glance, as you begin to understand the rhetoric of this party, it becomes something else: completely isolationist from a social and economic perspective and completely unilateral from a military perspective.

Basically the idea is that we should be a state that is completely self-interested, and only engage in activities which benefit us. Less aid to developing countries unless it’s tied to a deal where we get to install a military base, only support free trade if it is to our advantage, and only engage our military if one of our close allies are at risk.

Translation? Let Darfur and the next genocide sort themselves out.

2. The GOP lacks even a shred respect for the Democratic nominees.

When Barack Obama speaks of John McCain, he begins with “John McCain is a great American” - and then proceeds to explain to the crowd why he disagrees with him on the issues that matter.

When Obama was asked about Bristol Palin’s pregnancy, he replied that it was no one’s business but the family’s.

In the face of this respect and integrity, the GOP speakers spent all night mocking Barack Obama and his character, experience and worth.
1. McCain looked like he had aged 12 years in the last 12 days.

The guy is 72 years old. He’s an old person; a senior citizen — and aims to spend the next 4-8 years leading the free world.

You know, there are two kinds of old people: the really healthy, impressive kind who look like they could run a marathon - and then the kind who look like they could drop dead any second.

McCain is the latter, and that could leave us with the Governor of Alaska running the largest military and economy on the planet.

Link With some images and Vid

I didn't get to see the RNC, can anyone expound on how they felt about it?

metal heart · 09-05-2008, 08:28 PM

country first really equals a hundred years in iraq

Quote:

Palin's church wants to "pray away the gay"

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer.

“You’ll be encouraged by the power of God’s love and His desire to transform the lives of those impacted by homosexuality,” said an insert in the bulletin of the Wasilla Bible Church, where Palin has prayed since she was a child.

Palin’s conservative Christian views have energized that part of the Republican electorate, which was lukewarm to John McCain’s candidacy before he named her as his vice-presidential choice. She is anti-abortion, opposing exceptions for rape and incest, and opposes gay marriage and spousal rights for gay couples.

Focus on the Family, a national Christian fundamentalist organization, is conducting the “Love Won Out” Conference in Anchorage, about 50 kilometres from Wasilla.

Palin, campaigning with McCain in the Midwest on Friday, has not publicly expressed a view on the so-called “pray away the gay” movement. Larry Kroon, senior pastor at Palin’s church, was not available to discuss the matter Friday, said a church worker who declined to give her name.

Gay activists in Alaska said Palin has not worked actively against their interests but early in her administration she supported a bill to overrule a court decision to block state benefits for gay partners of public employees. At the time, fewer than one-half of one per cent of state employees had applied for the benefits, which were ordered by a 2005 ruling by the Alaska Supreme Court.

Palin reversed her position and vetoed the bill after the state attorney general said it was unconstitutional. But her reluctant support didn’t win fans among Alaska’s gay population, said Scott Turner, a gay activist in Anchorage.

“Less than one per cent of state employees would even apply for benefits, so why make a big deal out of such a small number?” he said.

“I think gay Republicans are going to run away” if Palin supports efforts like the prayers to convert gays, said Wayne Besen, founder of the New York City-based Truth Wins Out, a gay rights advocacy group.

Besen called on Palin to publicly express her views now that she’s a vice-presidential nominee.

“People are looking at Sarah Palin as someone who might feasibly be in the White House,” he said.

source

just the thought of living in a country possible of this is disgusting

**Cristofle** · 09-05-2008, 08:33 PM

I'm actually being serious when I say the idea of McCain/Palin running this country makes me consider moving to Canada. I like Vancouver.

roswellcharmed_2000 · 09-05-2008, 09:44 PM

Word. Supernatural films in Vancouver. And Psych! I'll move up there and be a P.A. or something. Them running the country scares the crap out of me.

Did anyone else see The Daily Show tonight and how McCain's speech was LITERALLY word for word the exact same as Bush's speech in 2000?

JW77 · 09-05-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post)

Pick one. The trooper scandal. Her being affiliated with the Alaskan Independence Party (wanting to secede from the US). Her initial endorsement of the bridge to nowhere. The lack of concern she has for the polar bears and environment in general. Her wanting Creationism taught in public school science classes. I could keep going, lol.

In my opinion the trooper scandal is only a red flag if she's actually guilty of firing someone for personal reasons.

As far as the AIP issue, do you mean her husband's affiliation with the group? If so, why should his involvement be a red flag for her? Unless of course she's endorsed secession.

The issue with the bridges is interesting. She did support using state funds to build the bridges before she was governor, but once she became governor and realized that Alaska had other priorities her opinion changed. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the way she tries to make it sound though. It can be misleading.

Not wanting the Polar bears covered under the Endangered Species Act and her overall opinion on the ESA and the environment is a concern for some people...myself included. So I'll agree with you on that.

Everything I've read concerning her opinion on creationism is that she feels if it's brought up in schools by students then discussion should be allowed. But I haven't read where she's said specifically that she wants it taught. If you have a link to an article where she's quoted as saying that then please post it as I'd like to be as informed as possible.

By all means...keep going if you have more. I don't mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

1. Accepting those nasty earmarks from Washington DC after she criticized them.

2. Leaving Wasilla in debt when the town had a surplus at the beginning of her administration.

3. Lying about selling the state jet on E-bay.

4. Her husband being in an Alaskan independent party for 7 years.

5. Troopergate.

6. Hiring a lobbyist for Wasilla and trashing them as part of the traditional corrupt atmosphere of DC in her speech.

7. Being for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

Gotta get back to work.

Only commenting on the ones I didn't talk about above...

On the earmarks...she criticized the [i]abuse[/] of earmark spending, not earmark spending itself. There's a difference.

Why was the town left in debt? What numbers are there on spending/revenue and projects where money was spent? That's important to know. If infrastructure was a top priority then it's understandable if spending is greater than revenue. Like Obama's plan for infrastructure, it's important even if it does lead to a deficit.

I don't think she said that she sold the jet on Ebay...only that it was put on the site. But if she did say that, can you post it.

Which speech did she trash lobbyists in? I'm asking because I really don't know, but would like to. What did she say exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

The worst thing was reading that the RNC aired a video from a military funeral that featured actors - it was staged. It's just despicable.

Which video are you referring to?

[quote=hunee;26402832]country first really equals a hundred years in iraq

And yes we can really equals focus on "smart" aggressive wars and greater military spending

Quote:

just the thought of living in a country possible if this is disgusting

Possible of what? Having people of differing opinions?

metal heart · 09-05-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW77 (View Post)

Possible of what? Having people of differing opinions?

of trying to motivate someone to change who they are... did you read the article i posted? palins church is trying to "pray the gay away"... whatever the hell that means!... but that is what i find so disgusting... how can anyone dictate who or what a person is or wants to be?... this is a democracy after all... freedom of choice, not just speech... one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

ceilirose · 09-06-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW77 (View Post)

In my opinion the trooper scandal is only a red flag if she's actually guilty of firing someone for personal reasons.

And that's the whole point of having an investigation. Now she won't cooperate, has hired a lawyer and wants a board whose members she appointed to judge the matter. Somehow that doesn't impress me. IF she's innocent then what's the problem?

Quote:

As far as the AIP issue, do you mean her husband's affiliation with the group? If so, why should his involvement be a red flag for her? Unless of course she's endorsed secession.

We really don't know what she favors do we? She's being held under wraps and only allowed to say what the McCain team wants her to say.

AIP favors a vote in which Alaskans decide whether they remain a state, become a territory, their own nation and some other options. Their founder, Joe Vogler, was a proponent of secession from what I read and died a rather mysterious and grisly death.

Now living in Hawaii I know a bit about secession talk and having your own nation. I don't know how powerful AIP is or if people just think they're the fringe.

My gripe is that her husband did belong to this group. Obama was raked over the coals because of his paster and his views which I don't think included secession. If a person and his pastor are so close than a married couple for over 20 years are even closer. Let's have a closer look at this group and let's ask Todd Palin and even, dare I say, Sarah her views. But it seems we're not allowed to do that.

If Obama was somehow connected to any Hawaiian sovereignty group it would be a death sentence for him.

Quote:

Everything I've read concerning her opinion on creationism is that she feels if it's brought up in schools by students then discussion should be allowed. But I haven't read where she's said specifically that she wants it taught. If you have a link to an article where she's quoted as saying that then please post it as I'd like to be as informed as possible.

Here you go:

Quote:

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

adn.com | elections : 'Creation science' enters the race

On the earmarks...she criticized the [i]abuse[/] of earmark spending, not earmark spending itself. There's a difference.

McCain had criticized earmarks from Palin - Los Angeles Times

The Washington Independent Palin on Earmarks: ‘We Did Well!!!’

Quote:

Why was the town left in debt? What numbers are there on spending/revenue and projects where money was spent? That's important to know. If infrastructure was a top priority then it's understandable if spending is greater than revenue. Like Obama's plan for infrastructure, it's important even if it does lead to a deficit.

That's true but wouldn't the millions she got from the federal government helped with infrastructure? Their transportation center and I think there a billion dollar bridge being built in Wasilla. Hopefully to somewhere.

The following link goes over a lot of her issues - the Wasilla budget is about 1/4 of the day down.

The Reality-Based Community: Palin v. Reality

Quote:

I don't think she said that she sold the jet on Ebay...only that it was put on the site. But if she did say that, can you post it.

Oh no..she didn't say it but that line was a nice neat part of the whole package that was thrown at us. I'd call it a lie of omission and deliberately mislead people. BTW - I think it's McCain that's saying it was sold for a profit.

It got great applause and I'll bet you most Americans think it was sold on E-bay and what a maverick that Sarah was to think of it. But it didn't happen. The plane sold for a loss. All the campaign has to do is set the record straight - but they won't because it's too good a line and keeps up the myth of this woman being a maverick.

Quote:

Which speech did she trash lobbyists in? I'm asking because I really don't know, but would like to. What did she say exactly?

McCain and Palin are both going to Washington (God forbid) to set those eastern, liberal elitists straight (paraphrasing here) and to show them it's not business as usual. Look use lobbyists (McCain has them in his campaign) but don't moralize about their evil ways and use them to line your constituent's pockets. More on that in the link above.

Quote:

Which video are you referring to?

Fake Soldiers Used In RNC Video, Patriotic Montage Shown At RNC Featured Actors Hired For One Day Shoot, Not Military - CBS News

I don't know what it would be like to live under a McCain/Palin administration and I don't want to know. The Republicans are taking a chance with keeping Palin away from any spontaneous media contact. Americans deserve to know Palin's positions on the issues in order to make their decision. It doesn't matter to me that she fishes, hunts, eats moose or played on the state championship high school basketball team. I think Obama's team won their state tournament in his junior year. Who cares? It doesn't show that they can lead the country. To me this shielding of her is coming across as sheer arrogance.

**vc318** · 09-06-2008, 05:25 AM

What annoyed me in McCain's speech is when he said that teachers would have to basically bow down to the students and parents and do as they say. He must be crazy. This guy has ZERO respect for teachers. Like the profession isn't beaten up enough. Now I understand why people who support him don't mind throwing away promised raises due to teachers and are looking to privatize education. He also wishes to continue living in the dark about what should be down about the economy. Actually, neither him or Palin gave any plan on that. Maybe they think America is just fine. All they did was criticize Obama. At least Obama's speech had more sustinence. And I have concerns about a presidential candidate and his sidekick who wish to use religion to tell people what they should do with their lives yet have no plan on helping people in need.

Quote:

To me this shielding of her is coming across as sheer arrogance.

Exactly. So, Palin doesn't have to come out and discuss her political stand yet we're saying that Obama isn't discussing the issues. Yeah, that sounds fair. This election has been so biased from the very start.

alexgeo · 09-06-2008, 07:51 AM

country first

ceilirose · 09-06-2008, 08:05 AM

"Change you can believe in"

Sorry..couldn't resist.

I was kind a taken aback at his teacher comment too. McCain just wants to be
President so badly he'll give the base whatever it wants. The sad thing is that it could help him win it all.

During McCain's speech when he was talking about soldiers the image in back of him was supposed to be the Walter Reed Hospital in DC. Unfortunately whoever was doing the A/V wasn't too careful and they used an image of a public school in LA called Walter Reed Middle School. Seriously you can't make this stuff up.

I just thought it was one of his many homes because he actually looked surprised when he saw it too.

TPM Election Central | Talking Points Memo | School Raps McCain For Using Image As Speech Backdrop Without Permission

Also from what I've read no one in the McCain camp wants to take responsibility for the screw-up. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

It took about a week but some of McCain's people are trying to stonewall the troopergate investigation:

Quote:

Key Alaska allies of John McCain are trying to derail a politically charged investigation into Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of her public safety commissioner in order to prevent a so-called "October surprise" that would produce embarrassing information about the vice presidential candidate on the eve of the election.

In a move endorsed by the McCain campaign Friday, John Coghill, the GOP chairman of the state House Rules Committee, wrote a letter seeking a meeting of Alaska's bipartisan Legislative Council in order to remove the Democratic state senator in charge of the so-called "troopergate" investigation.

Coghill charged that the senator, Hollis French, had "politicized" the probe by making a number of public comments in recent days, including telling ABC News that Palin had a "credibility problem" and that the investigation into the firing of public safety commissioner Walter Monegan was "likely to be damaging to the administration" and could be an "October surprise." Wrote Coghill: "The investigation appears to be lacking in fairness, neutrality and due process."

McCain Ally Moves to Curb Probe of Palin | Newsweek Politics: Conventions | Newsweek.com