News & Politics - US Election Coverage 2008 - Part 8 - Rock the vote! - Page 3

**vc318** · 08-31-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

When did I say that voters will take more pity on Palin? I didn't.

This was your quote, right?

Quote:

To be honest, I'm hoping the Democrats do talk about Palin's lack of experience or qualifications. It plays right into the hands of the Republicans.

Well, that's what I felt your post was saying. And again, the whole inexperience talk started from the Republican party so why would a rant they started hold any more water now that Palin is getting attacked about her inexperience too? So, because Democrats are saying that's she's inexperienced makes us far worse than what the Republicans are doing to Obama? The criticism isn't being dished out fairly here.

ceilirose · 08-31-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW77 (View Post)

You're right, he doesn't seem to be advocating that Roe v. Wade be overturned. And I agree, you can be pro-life and still respect the law. That's why being pro-life doesn't automatically mean that you'll lose.

Republicans wouldn't necessarily lose if they had a pro-choice candidate either. Ridge or Leiberman would have been far more qualified candidates than Palin. Those two might have convinced independents to vote for McCain.

Quote:

McKinney has spent most of her career blaming Republicans and it's always been politically motivated, so in my mind finally blaming Democrats as well is spreading it around.

But that section you quoted was pretty misleading - it wasn't balanced at all.

Quote:

At the same time, the report by Obama's economic advisor about Walmart and it's non-union, lower salaried workers being good for America makes me question Obama's sincerity as well.

Or he's not afraid of being surrounded by people who don't agree with him on one aspect of economic reform. That person, if I remember correctly, was highly thought of in terms of his overall economic background.

Quote:

Stem cell research is a bit different though. Both support it, and McCain has taken some criticism for it, but his limit seems to be research that involves embryos that are not going to be discarded. I'm not sure about Obama's stance on any limits and I'm too lazy to check at the moment, so I'll take your word that they're views are different in regards to stem cell research.

Obama doesn't have any limits on it and I thought that McCain did. I'm more concerned about the overall view on it if McCain wins. Palin is against it, the conservative base is against it and if the Democrats don't get a veto proof majority then it's a dead issue. Personally I think McCain could be moved to switch his position if the conservative Christian right gives him the election because of Palin.

Quote:

As far as education, I'm interested in Obama's plan, but I'd like to know how he's going to pay for it. I know he plans on diverting money that is currently being spent on the Iraq war, but that will only cover some of it (and that's if he's able to end the war soon). The rest of the money has to come from somewhere. McCain's plan just doesn't do it for me. You can't keep the education budget the same and expect America's schools to prepare students for a changing world.

Obama has stated that he will raise taxes on the people in the higher end of the income bracket. That's going to p.o. some people but so be it.

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by "military" exactly. If you're talking about the Iraq war, Obama's views seem to change to fit what's best for him at the moment so I'm sure at some point they were or will be different.

I'm talking about the war and the overall budget for the military. If you're talking about the incident about a month or so ago where he had to give an additional press conference to explain his first conference - that was a media moment. It had a shelf life of less than 24 hours.

I've followed his views on Iraq and he's always called for a 16 month exit plan but would listen to the generals/leaders on the ground, take their views into consideration and act accordingly. That hasn't really changed but the talking heads went into an orgasm about it that day.

Quote:

Some people believe that Palin is a great choice though, and it reinforces their belief in McCain and his decision making. Whether or not Palin was who McCain really wanted, I don't know. But if he didn't want her, you're right, he should have picked the person that he really did want.

But I've read today that some of McCain's team went to Alaska today to start vetting her. We'll see but it doesn't look like a great deal of time was spent on checking her background. But then again the media is still so enthralled with her that anything negative (discounting the comparisions to Hilary) isn't really being reported.

snarkmachine · 09-01-2008, 12:34 AM

This link honestly scares me to death. As a Democrat and a female, I always admired Hillary Clinton for her tenacity and strength, although I eventually voted for Obama in the primaries. The fact that these posters (I'm assuming women) are even COMPARING Clinton and Palin is laughable, and quite frankly horrifying. Clinton was admirable because of her stances on ISSUES, not because of her gender. She is Palin's polar opposite on every single issue, and yet, because she's got a uterus, these Clinton 'supporters' are going to vote McCain. This isn't feminism. This is the worst form of sexism.

Shanti70 · 09-01-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarkmachine (View Post)

This link honestly scares me to death. As a Democrat and a female, I always admired Hillary Clinton for her tenacity and strength, although I eventually voted for Obama in the primaries. The fact that these posters (I'm assuming women) are even COMPARING Clinton and Palin is laughable, and quite frankly horrifying. Clinton was admirable because of her stances on ISSUES, not because of her gender. She is Palin's polar opposite on every single issue, and yet, because she's got a uterus, these Clinton 'supporters' are going to vote McCain. This isn't feminism. This is the worst form of sexism.

I wouldn't worry too much. For every female who only wants to vote for another female, you can find a male who would never vote for a female on the ticket. It is surprising , however, that some women vote gender instead of issues. That is horrifying.

ceilirose · 09-01-2008, 09:26 AM

We'll see how this plays out - it looks to be for real:

Bristol Palin pregnant -- right now - First Read - msnbc.com

Quote:

From NBC's Mark Murray
Reuters: "The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.

Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said. 'We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us,' the Palins' statement said. 'Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support,' the Palins said."

So much for the success of abstinence only sex education.

**TheAngel** · 09-01-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

We'll see how this plays out - it looks to be for real:

Bristol Palin pregnant -- right now - First Read - msnbc.com

So much for the success of abstinence only sex education.

Yeah, I saw that. I'm glad she decided to at least come out with it because it would have just gotten worse. I don't see why this is such a big deal though. A number of kids are pregnant and they don't have the family support system. Besides, the Palin family may very well have talked about birth control. After all, she is pro-contraception. (Source)
Sometimes, despite education, things happen. But I didn't know Bristol was running for VP. I'm not going to vote for her, but to me, this is a non-issue.

ceilirose · 09-01-2008, 01:36 PM

I didn't know abstinence was a form of contraception except in a "very my way or the highway manner."

Palin backed abstinence-only education - First Read - msnbc.com

Quote:

From NBC's Katie Primm and Mark Murray
By the way, as has been pointed out, Palin backed abstinence-only education during her 2006 gubernatorial race. In an Eagle Forum Alaska questionnaire, Palin gave this response to the following question:

Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

*** UPDATE *** NBC's Abby Livingston adds that a McCain spokesperson in May 2007 said the Arizona Republican supported abstinence-only education, too. "Sen. McCain believes the correct policy for educating young children on this subject is to promote abstinence as the only safe and responsible alternative. To do otherwise is to send a mixed signal to children that, on the one hand they should not be sexually active, but on the other here is the way to go about it. As any parent knows, ambiguity and equivocation leads to problems when it comes to teaching children right from wrong. Sen. McCain believes that there are many negative forces in today’s society that promote irresponsible and dangerous behavior to our children. The public education system should not join this chorus of moral equivocation and ambiguity.”

The only news worthy part of this is that it reflects on McCain's judgment. In the last three days we've found out that Palin was for the "bridge to nowhere" before she was against it, she said she wasn't a part of the campaign to rid her ex brother-in-law of his job and that's not quite true, made a reckless decision to fly 6 + hours in the beginning of labor with a special needs baby just so the baby could be born in Alaska, doesn't know what a VP does and doesn't really have an opinion on the Iraq War even though she could be Commander in Chief. This morning it was reported that she may have some interest in an Alaskan secession group.

Also the first release on this from the McCain camp took a swipe at Obama and honestly that sucks a bit. The pregancy in itself isn't the issue but how McCain is trying to frame it is.

**TheAngel** · 09-01-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

I didn't know abstinence was a form of contraception except in a "very my way or the highway manner."

Palin backed abstinence-only education - First Read - msnbc.com

The only news worthy part of this is that it reflects on McCain's judgment. In the last three days we've found out that Palin was for the "bridge to nowhere" before she was against it, she said she wasn't a part of the campaign to rid her ex brother-in-law of his job and that's not quite true, made a reckless decision to fly 6 + hours in the beginning of labor with a special needs baby just so the baby could be born in Alaska, doesn't know what a VP does and doesn't really have an opinion on the Iraq War even though she could be Commander in Chief. This morning it was reported that she may have some interest in an Alaskan secession group.

Also the first release on this from the McCain camp took a swipe at Obama and honestly that sucks a bit. The pregancy in itself isn't the issue but how McCain is trying to frame it is.

Hmm, then I have no idea where that site I got info from got its information.

**Cristofle** · 09-01-2008, 04:07 PM

Oh, the pregnancy itself is an issue. It SHOULDN'T be, but it will be for those who already take more personal crap than politics into the voting booth.

But for me personally, since I think all politicians are probably corrupt and have shady personal lives, lol, I think this shows that McCain didn't really vet her. There's no WAY the GOP knew about this. No POSSIBLE way. It shows this VP pick for the cheap, hasty ploy it was.

**sunnykerr** · 09-01-2008, 06:06 PM

Unless they did know and figured it would make her look more liberal.

**vc318** · 09-01-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarkmachine (View Post)

This link honestly scares me to death. As a Democrat and a female, I always admired Hillary Clinton for her tenacity and strength, although I eventually voted for Obama in the primaries. The fact that these posters (I'm assuming women) are even COMPARING Clinton and Palin is laughable, and quite frankly horrifying. Clinton was admirable because of her stances on ISSUES, not because of her gender. She is Palin's polar opposite on every single issue, and yet, because she's got a uterus, these Clinton 'supporters' are going to vote McCain. This isn't feminism. This is the worst form of sexism.

I think Obama could spin on his head and there would be no pleasing the Hillary supporters. Even after she asked for her supporters to go out and vote for Obama, there's still bitterness. Well, from now till we find out who will be the next president (hell, if Obama does win we'll probably never stop hearing about this), these sort of things are going to go on. This race keeps getting dirtier and dirtier by the minute.

I'm not sure what impact this pregnancy will do for Palin. I mean, her supporters could take this one of two ways - either condemn her as an unfit mother or commend her for supporting her daughter through this. The media really didn't need to let this out, to be honest. This is her family's business.

NYCity Boy · 09-01-2008, 06:53 PM

Wait so Bristol became pregnant when she was supposed to be out for Mono? It said 5 months right?

On another note:

Quote:

Palin's LIE Repeated 4 Times on MTP

On Meet the Press, Maria Bartoromo just repeated Sarah Palin's lie as fact about drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

The Lie: Drilling will only occupy 2000 ACRES.

Maria B. repeated Palin's seductive lie at least 4 times in describing last week's interview with the inexperienced Governor.

The Facts: 2000 acres refers only to the square footage under the drilling pads. The area impacted is actually millions of acres of pads, roads, pipelines, facilities, pumping stations emission sources......

"2000 ACRES" IS ACTUALLY 1,500,000 ACRES OF INDUSTRIAL SPRAWL!

fetch · 09-01-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanti70 (View Post)

I wouldn't worry too much. For every female who only wants to vote for another female, you can find a male who would never vote for a female on the ticket. It is surprising , however, that some women vote gender instead of issues. That is horrifying.

I don't think most Clinton supporters who are thinking about voting McCain are doing so simply because of him picking a woman VP. I know a lot of Clinton supporters were against Obama anyway - for various reasions, and were debating between Obama and McCain even before they each announced their running mates. A woman VP would just be another push in the progress road.

ceilirose · 09-01-2008, 10:08 PM

I don't understand why a hard core Hilary supporter would vote for McCain or Palin since both have views that are diametrically opposed to hers. If I was in their position I'd probably just vote for a third party candidate.

It should be an interesting week because as Palin is vetted more the Republicans will have to make a decision to stay with Palin or to cut their losses. It came out today that the religious right pretty much decided the choice of VP:

Quote:

Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.

But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates.

Perhaps more important, several Republicans said, Mr. McCain was getting advice that if he did not do something to shake up the race, his campaign would be stuck on a potentially losing trajectory.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us...hp&oref=slogin

**TheAngel** · 09-02-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

I don't understand why a hard core Hilary supporter would vote for McCain or Palin since both have views that are diametrically opposed to hers. If I was in their position I'd probably just vote for a third party candidate.

Yes, but most voters are stupid. They don't know the issues, they vote based on party lines, a few push-button issues like gay marriage or abortion, or they vote based on campaign ads which are full of crooked and skewed views of the issues and the other candidates. I'm sure there were hard core Hilary supporters that were just voting for her because she was a woman or because she was Bill Clinton's Wife, both of which are bad reasons. So now, they've switched teams. Oh well, it's going to be interesting.