News & Politics - US Election Coverage 2008 - Part 8 - Rock the vote!

NYCity Boy · 08-30-2008, 08:59 AM

Is this an okay title or was there a reason you guys chose to say presidential candidates?

I came across an article that takes into account many things about Palin that worrys him, the history of some VP nominations and a bit of analysis on some of the other candidates McCain passed over.

article

Shanti70 · 08-30-2008, 12:28 PM

I think the nomination of Sarah Palin was made because, after Obama's speech and the Democrat's convention, not one qualified male, or female, Republican wanted to run with McCain. Those Republicans did not want to be on a losing ticket where their political futures would be in jeopardy.

ceilirose · 08-30-2008, 01:31 PM

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Originally Posted by JW77 (View Post)

How does Harry Reid gain votes being pro-life? How did he find the support to become the Senate Minority leader in 2005?

Compromise. He identifies with Democrats overall. Plus pro-life vs. pro-choice isn't quite the litmus test among Democrats that it is in the Republican party.

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According to Cynthia McKinney..."Our country has been hijacked and the Democrats have proven themselves to have been in on the plan. When it came to the Constitution, the Democratic leadership showed us that aiding and abetting illegal spying on us was more important to them than protecting our civil liberties.

But you need to mention that McKinney is the presidential candidate for the Green party. So her comments are a little disengenuous once you know that. She's blaming the Democrats and I'll be the first to admit that Pelosi and Reid have been a huge disappointment but the Iraq War, the telecom immunity bill and the domestic spying aren't totally in the hands of the Democrats. A lot but not totally. Blame can be spread around. Bush and his gang created the mess that is Iraq along with the compliance of some Democrats.

There have been some fighters among the Democrats - not a whole lot but some. They've tried to pass the stem cell twice and Bush has vetoed it - same for the childhood health insurance bill also. They pushed through the new G.I. bill even though Bush and McCain were against it.

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I don't know...Nader maybe, or possibly McKinney or Kucinich (although he still considers himself a Democrat). I do know that with Obama or McCain it will be policy as usual in Washington.

Nadar is over the top and not quite over himself. He's not a factor this year is he? I don't even know if he's still in the race. Kucinich is a good person - he just didn't have that massive cross over appeal.

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I wouldn't call it an uprising as much as a celebration after the Soviet Union collapsed.

The Polish dock workers in Gdansk? The Czechs in 1968? The many East Germans who risked their lives to escape over the Berlin Wall? I can't believe that they didn't contribute to the Soviet Union collapse. You can't tell me that Reagan telling Gorbachev to "tear down this wall" was all that was needed.

This is another opinion on Palin from a blogger in Alaska. It's a long read and the writer is a Democrat but he does give a recap of Palin, her rise and the issue of "troopergate."

Mudflats

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I, like all Alaskans, have been glued to the news media today, watching with amazement as Sarah Palin was tagged as McCain’s vice presidential running mate. Local radio talk shows are all a-buzz. The progressive station has a mixture of callers who are amused, horrified, and bewildered. The conservative station has a mixture of callers who are amused, enthusiastic, horrified and bewildered. No one is really sure how this happened, or what to make of it. Citing the fact that she was the mayor of Wasilla 2 years ago in her list of “executive experience” doesn’t even pass the giggle test in Alaska. Palin does have many supporters here in the state, but even many of them are doubting whether she can cut it in the Veep slot. A few callers have said they feel sorry for her, because they like her but she’s obviously being “used” and is way over her head. Local politicians are fiercely divided. Those who like her are generally appointees who are locally referred to as “Palin-bots” and have drawn comparisons to George Bush’s idealogical croneys. Many, Democrats and Republicans, are fierce opponents.

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Governor “Squeakyclean”….or not.

Another focus of Palin’s introduction today was her reform image. Listen to John McCain and you’ll hear about a maverick reformer who took on big oil, took on corrupt Alaska politicians, and whose ethics are unquestioned.

Alaskans really want to like Sarah Palin. In a state where corruption is the rule, and the same faces keep recycling over and over and over again like a bad dream, a new face, with a promise of reform seemed like a breath of fresh air. Palin defeated incumbent governor Frank Murkowski (father of Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski who he appointed to his own Senate seat when he was elected governor) because he was such an obnoxious, bloviating, downright BAD politician. This staunchly republican state voted with relief, not having to cross over and vote Democratic, but still able to get Murkowski the hell out of office. In the general election Palin swept into office running against a former Democratic governor, Tony Knowles, who was capable but came with baggage. And he represented to Alaskans more of the same, tired old-style politics, and special interests that we have come to loathe.

So, if McCain had made his selection six months ago, the squeaky-clean governor meme would have made a little more sense. But, Sarah Palin is currently under an ethics investigation by the Alaska state legislature. The details of this investigation read like a trashy novel, and I suspect that the players will soon have newfound celebrity on the national stage. I’ll try to explain for all you non-Alaskans who suddenly have good reason to want to know more about Sarah Palin. For those of you not interested in trashy novels, feel free to skip ahead. Here it is…what we in Alaska call “TrooperGate”.

collide · 08-30-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanti70 (View Post)

I think the nomination of Sarah Palin was made because, after Obama's speech and the Democrat's convention, not one qualified male, or female, Republican wanted to run with McCain. Those Republicans did not want to be on a losing ticket where their political futures would be in jeopardy.

I think that McCain was going to choose Pawlenty until he saw Obama's amazing speech. I think him and his camp got worried and decided that they wanted to "make history" as well and to make people more excited about their campaign.

On CNN, a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters saw through it and said McCain was trying to pull a fast one. They also said he was being patronizing.

**Cristofle** · 08-30-2008, 03:05 PM

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...in 2000. But in 2004 he did. As far as what happened in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004, well that just furthers the notion that America is in need of a complete overhaul.

I was speaking specifically of the 2000 election, responding to the original poster's claim that some people still believe Bush didn't win that election. If you feel the popular vote matters at all, he certainly didn't have much of a victory, since he lost that popular vote.

*Ledi* · 08-30-2008, 03:24 PM

I keep reading more and more articles by analysts, scholars, etc who keep saying that Palin is the most inexperienced candidate (in a major party ticket) in modern history. It's quite interesting, and it certainly does silence the ones that think she has as much, if not more, experience than Obama. At least in my eyes, anyway.

Here's one of those articles:

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John McCain was aiming to make history with his pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and historians say he succeeded.

Presidential scholars say she appears to be the least experienced, least credentialed person to join a major-party ticket in the modern era.

So unconventional was McCain’s choice that it left students of the presidency literally “stunned,” in the words of Joel Goldstein, a St. Louis University law professor and scholar of the vice presidency. “Being governor of a small state for less than two years is not consistent with the normal criteria for determining who’s of presidential caliber,” said Goldstein.

“I think she is the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history,” said presidential historian Matthew Dallek.

That includes Spiro T. Agnew, Richard Nixon’s first vice president, who was governor of a medium-sized state, Maryland, for two years, and before that, executive of suburban Baltimore County, the expansive jurisdiction that borders and exceeds in population the city of Baltimore.

It also includes George H.W. Bush’s vice president, Indiana Sen. Dan Quayle, who had served in the House and Senate for 12 years before taking office. And it also includes New York Rep. Geraldine Ferraro, who served three terms in the House before Walter Mondale chose her in 1984 as the first woman candidate on a major party ticket.

“It would be one thing if she had only been governor for a year and a half, but prior to that she had not had major experience in public life,” said Dallek of Palin. “The fact that he would have to go to somebody who is clearly unqualified to be president makes Obama look like an elder statesman.”

And Alaska is a much smaller state than Illinois, the political base of Barack Obama, whom Republicans have repeatedly criticized for being inexperienced, having served nearly four years in the U.S. Senate after eight in the Illinois state Senate.

“Not to belittle Alaska, but it’s different than the basket of issues you deal with in big, dynamic states.” Dallek said.

Palin has no experience in national office. Before becoming governor in December 2006, she served as a council member and mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which had a population of slightly more than 5,000 during her time in office.

Brad Blakeman, who ran the 1988 Republican convention for GOP nominee George H.W. Bush, turned the experience question on its head, suggesting accomplishments in office mean more than time accrued.

“Here’s a governor who may have served two years, but her accomplishments are worth eight,” said Blakeman, citing Palin's work as governor on ethics reform and an Alaska oil pipeline. “She’s got as much experience for being vice president as Barack does to be president.”

But other students of presidential history said that In choosing Palin as his running mate, McCain has reached back to a time when few actually seriously contended that the vice president should be demonstrably prepared to assume the presidency from day one.

If elected vice president, Palin would appear to have the least amount of experience in federal office or as a governor since John W. Kern, Democrat William Jennings Bryan’s 1908 running mate, who had served for four years in the Indiana state Senate and then four more as city solicitor of Indianapolis. The Democratic ticket lost to Republican standard bearer William Howard Taft and running mate James S. Sherman by an Electoral College spread of 321-162.

More conventionally in modern times, running mates could boast decades of experience in Washington, from ballot box winners like Dick Cheney, Al Gore, the elder Bush and Mondale to also-rans such as Jack Kemp, Lloyd Bentsen and Joseph I. Lieberman.

These super-credentialed candidates were sometimes chosen, like Joe Biden, to shore up the resumes of candidates with little or no time in Washington, such as Jimmy Carter (Mondale) Bill Clinton (Gore) and Michael Dukakis (Bentsen.)

Palin, on the other hand, is a total “wild card,” said Stanford historian David Kennedy.

“If she had been around for two terms as governor — or been a senator — it would have been an incredible choice,” said historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. “Who else could he have found who appealed to the conservative base … and as someone who was a reformer?”

That’s not to say Palin will be a dud on the campaign trail.

But out-of-the-box picks in recent years have not usually worked out too well for the top of the ticket. Consider independent candidate Ross Perot’s 1992 running mate, former Navy Adm. James Stockdale, who famously asked at the vice presidential debate with Gore and Quayle, “Who am I, why am I here?”

“He took the wind out of Perot’s sails, and Perot could have done even better” than the 19 percent he garnered, Dallek said.

A bad running mate pick can even put a successful presidential ticket in question. The 1988 Bush-Quayle victory over Dukakis and Bentsen came in spite of Quayle’s frequent campaign trail gaffes and questions about his military service in the Vietnam era and other controversies. Bush handlers largely relegated Quayle to small town audiences that would attract little media attention.

“Quayle — it threw off the momentum for some weeks,” said Goodwin. “One has to hope for McCain’s sake that [Palin] has been fully vetted.”

“The first thing that hits me,” said Stephen Hess of the Brookings Institution," is that it suggests that John McCain is a gambler. This is a high roller decision.”

“The next thing you have to ask yourself: Is it worrisome to have a gambler in the Oval Office? That’s an important question," he said, “perhaps more important than anything else today.”

NYCity Boy · 08-30-2008, 04:09 PM

How come this image with the McCains and Palins only has one of their children? Do you think that they are trying to draw special attention to the child with down syndrome? I feel that that should have added all the kids, if they were going to have any at all

Palin laughing when host calls colleague a bitch:

And if anyone wants to see the vid when she talkes about not knowing what a VP does:

COOLCAT200 · 08-30-2008, 04:56 PM

It's going to be interesting to see how she does at the RNC when she speaks. It's going to be her first true test on a national stage and if she flops she might not be able to recover. On the other hand if she's a hit it may give the Mccain some momentum.

snarkmachine · 08-30-2008, 05:41 PM

shallow note: does palin's voice grate on anyone else's eardrums?

ceilirose · 08-30-2008, 06:51 PM

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Originally Posted by snarkmachine (View Post)

shallow note: does palin's voice grate on anyone else's eardrums?

A little bit..it's high pitched.

I think we'll see in about a week or maybe less how this will play out. Palin certainly isn't going to appeal to Hilary voters. Every view she has is a complete 360 from Clinton. She will be popular with the Christian conservative base with her views though. McCain made a last ditch effort to get the base back that has elected Republicans in the past. Hopefully she brushes up on the issues.

Of course she doesn't have the experience to run the country but it was good politcally for him.

**vc318** · 08-30-2008, 07:50 PM

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According to Cynthia McKinney..."Our country has been hijacked and the Democrats have proven themselves to have been in on the plan. When it came to the Constitution, the Democratic leadership showed us that aiding and abetting illegal spying on us was more important to them than protecting our civil liberties.

Yet the president gives jobs away to the very people we're supposed to be so worried about. I'm sure every time I speak with customer service, I'm talking with someone in Afghanistan or Iraq or elsewhere. How did that happen and why are there no jobs out there? Bush would know. He made sure to create a panic after 9/11 by getting hard working Americans fired and giving their jobs to people outside of the U.S. The failure of the last 8 years has largely been the fault of the Republican party - start a war, take care of the wealthy, inflate prices, repeat. And please explain how Bush won 2004 fair and square? He made a huge mess of everything between 2000 and 2004 so why wouldn't the voters expect him to clean up after himself? No wonder his approval rating are down in the teens now.

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I think Democrats could be more effective in their criticisms of Palin if they focus less on the experience issue, as it draws comparisons to Obama's experience, and stick to Palin's apparent lack of knowledge on issues and policy outside of Alaska...especially foreign policy. But that's just my opinion.

Same thing for the Republicans. It's so funny that the Republican party can say, "Oh, why are the Democrats attacking Palin about her experience? That's not right." yet they forget how quickly they've been saying the same thing about Obama since the election started. Well, I hope Palin can handle it because she's going to continue hearing it and probably end up just as annoyed as I'm sure Obama is about people pulling the inexperienced card on him every five minutes.

**vc318** · 08-30-2008, 07:57 PM

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It's going to be interesting to see how she does at the RNC when she speaks. It's going to be her first true test on a national stage and if she flops she might not be able to recover. On the other hand if she's a hit it may give the Mccain some momentum.

I hear the stadium they picked only seats 20,000 people. I'm guessing they're not expecting a huge turnout?

mcdreamylover · 08-30-2008, 08:30 PM

If the RNC is smart they'll postpone the whole convention until after this Hurricane that's about to hit New Orleans. I hear it may a category 4 storm when it hits. If they're partying while people are suffering their asses are fried IMO.

As of now, from what I hear, the Governers of Texas (there's a chance it still might hit here) and Louisanna are not attending the convention at all. I'm glad. I may be a democrat but I'm still happy to hear they're putting their states first before some party in Minnesota.

**V-Nessa** · 08-30-2008, 08:49 PM

I was shocked to hear about Sarah Palin. She's very conservative and I certainly don't agree with her on a lot of issues, so for that alone, I don't like her. If she's a great person, a great mother, or whatever, I don't really care much to be honest (it's all I heard on the news yesterday). She's definitely just more of the same.

At least she officially made my Dad an Obama supporter (He was on the fence because he somewhat liked McCain).

collide · 08-30-2008, 09:20 PM

Some people are speculating that she faked her pregnancy and that her child with Down Syndrome is really her daughter's baby.

ontd_political: VP candidate faked pregnancy???