News & Politics - Spain PM may pull troops before June 30th.

SuperDeluxe · 04-18-2004, 04:07 PM

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MADRID, Spain - The prime minister ordered Spanish troops pulled out of Iraq (news - web sites) as soon as possible Sunday, fulfilling a campaign pledge to a nation still recovering from terrorist bombings that al-Qaida militants said were reprisal for Spain's support of the war.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._ea/spain_iraq

I remember intently that the new PM said he would withdraw his troops at june 30th, and not before then.

Woops guess we shouldnt have 'read his lips'. Al Qaida 1 Western Democracies 0

[ 04-19-2004: Message edited Katis ]

StellaSlight · 04-18-2004, 04:40 PM

Yeah, right. Talk about biased titles... and since there were complaints about the whole "Bush knew about 9/11 attacks" title in the other thread, I'll say this one is controversial too.

Well, Zapatero always said that he was against the intervention in Iraq, and he said that he would withdraw the troops as soon as possible but that he would maintain the troops there until June 30th if the US would back up and let the UN take the lead instead. The US didn't meet his expectations, he kept his words.
Look, the article you linked to even mentioned it :

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Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero issued the abrupt recall just hours after his government was sworn in, saying there was no sign the United States would meet his demand for United Nations (news - web sites) control of the postwar occupation � his ultimatum for keeping troops there.

That's pure constancy to me. Yay for Zapatero.
Finally a guy who does keep his promises. I'd rather say : Western Chickenhawks 0 Western Peace-defenders 1. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Avatar · 04-18-2004, 04:48 PM

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Originally posted by SuperDeluxe:
Al Qaida 1 Western Democracies 0

Eh? From the article: "The latest polls show 72 percent of Spaniards want the troops withdrawn." Following the will of the people is democratic. Following his campaign promise is democratic. Again, from the article: "He cited his campaign pledge to bring the 1,300 troops in Iraq home by June 30, when their mandate expires, if the United Nations failed to take political and military control." For the Spanish people to excerise their right to vote is the epitomy of a democracy.

Jonathan Freedland, of the Guardian, have another take on it - according to him, what the Bush�tes (his term, not mine) are doing is contrary to the democracy they claim to defend:

By defaming the Spanish while Madrid weeps, the Bush�tes display a sneaking contempt for democracy.

And stupid automatic censoring - Bush�tes is not a dirty word. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ 04-18-2004: Message edited Avatar ]

Enigma, I.C. · 04-18-2004, 04:50 PM

Zapatero is simply keeping a campaign promise. Certain other leaders could learn from his example.

Frankly, I'm rather stunned you'd have the gall to call the guy a liar when he said he'd do this in his campaign. I mean, it's not like Zapatero said a country had weapons of mass destruction, invaded, didn't find any, then tried to reinvent the whole debacle as an operation to "liberate" people.

[ 04-18-2004: Message edited Enigma, I.C. ]

ceilirose · 04-18-2004, 05:00 PM

The article doesn't mention the Spanish troops in Afghanistan which are remaining in that fight against terrorism. You know the one which had most of the world's support because there was this man called Osama Bin Laden who...well you know the rest of the story. We all do.

I'd vote for the thread title to be changed too.

migamoo · 04-18-2004, 05:38 PM

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Originally posted by Avatar:

And stupid automatic censoring - Bush�tes is not a dirty word. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

well obviously there's something wrong with it. but i agree, it isn't a dirty word so it shouldn't be filtered.

I'm actually happy to see something like this. It's about time that there was a leader in the world who kept his promise to his people. Maybe this will tell teach the Bush government something about the world's view on Iraq. Probably won't though.
And I also agree on the name change, Zapatero didn't lie to anyone.

Ashley

mh67511 · 04-18-2004, 06:37 PM

I just hope the terrorists don't think they can influence OUR election in November. The fear is growing that they will do something to create panic before the elections!

Enigma, I.C. · 04-18-2004, 07:08 PM

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Originally posted by mh67511:
The fear is growing that they will do something to create panic before the elections!

And if this fear helped Bush get reelected you wouldn't object whereas if it got Kerry elected you would complain?

Anabela · 04-19-2004, 03:14 AM

I think it's great that Zapatero is keeping his promisse. The Spanish people voted for him expecting exactly that.

ETA:
I also think that the title should be changed simply because it's not true.

[ 04-19-2004: Message edited - lost - ]

JohannafromIHJ · 04-19-2004, 03:23 AM

Wow, a politician who keeps his word instead of sucking up to Bush. So it was a pig I saw flying past my window!

Bill bobidy · 04-19-2004, 07:21 AM

Didn't Rumsfeld just say he was keeping on troops past the time they should be out there.

Spain takes a course of action to protect it's people and do as the electors wanted in the first place. Why is it so hard for right wing americans to realise that when they were acting like Nazis and calling everyone Anti-American that this "anti-spanish" noncense is pretty much the same.

Are right wingers racist? Course they are, it's pretty logical.

At the same time however, I do dissagree with the Spanish withdrawel. I do think it'll make them less of a target and telling me that there were problems after the announcement would make for this response.

Are the Spanish still actually in Iraq?

Are they being targeted more or less since then?

What has the official line been from Al-Quida? Seems there are that many splinter groups that have little or no communication between each other that we really can't judge any threat or action as being from an order handed down by Mr Osama bin raider.

OS- Bu****es isn't a bad word? it seems to imply as much about Bush and his followers as about ****e which is a fairly common expression in Scotland.

I really don't like him and his ideology though so it's quite refreshing to see.

*Lauren · 04-19-2004, 07:35 AM

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Are right wingers racist? Course they are, it's pretty logical

Really? Can you explain this logic to me?

ros2nz · 04-19-2004, 09:13 AM

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Finally a guy who does keep his promises. I'd rather say : Western Chickenhawks 0 Western Peace-defenders 1. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Al-Queda came up rather fast, didn't it?

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Frankly, I'm rather stunned you'd have the gall to call the guy a liar when he said he'd do this in his campaign. I mean, it's not like Zapatero said a country had weapons of mass destruction, invaded, didn't find any, then tried to reinvent the whole debacle as an operation to "liberate" people

WORD

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Wow, a politician who keeps his word instead of sucking up to Bush. So it was a pig I saw flying past my window!

[img]smilies/rotfl.gif[/img]

Why is it that when a leader actually keeps his promise he's the bad guy? Especially when the guy has his people's interest at heart, not just a lapdog for the US.

Bill bobidy · 04-19-2004, 09:30 AM

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Originally posted by *Lauren:


Really? Can you explain this logic to me?

Sure.

Can you explain the "anti-American" thing though as I just can't get it and am a little bit put out that such Naziesque measures are used to gain public support.

My point is that when the right wing get ticked off it's this "with us or against us" attitude that has no reasoning other than emotional.

If we look to this same type of idea being applied world wide then we should accept that not going with any country doing the same thing and having terrorist troubles like Spain must be anti-"insert country".

Now anti-spanish is racist as they follow a different line of decent, hence all people who agree with the "anti-american" line posed and dissagrees with Spain's policies now is racist and no doubt sports a large KKK tatoo on their arm.

*Lauren · 04-19-2004, 09:48 AM

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Can you explain the "anti-American" thing though as I just can't get it and am a little bit put out that such Naziesque measures are used to gain public support.

Simple. They're not using "Naziesque" tactics to gain popular support. The US has a lot of faults, but copying the Nazis is not one of them.

I don't agree with the "You're with us or against us" line of thinking, its downright stupid, and takes the whole choice thing away, a pretty important part of democrcy. The "them" however, is referring to terrorists, who have blown up buildings, and committed many atrocities. Terrorists are people of all races. The Nazis "them" were the Jews, who had done nothing wrong. They were one race.

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My point is that when the right wing get ticked off it's this "with us or against us" attitude that has no reasoning other than emotional.

Of course. The left can do that too however. Look at Communist/Stalinist Russia.

The simple fact is EXTREEMISTS are bad, whether they be left or right. I think the US is getting far too extreme for my liking, but to lable every right winger a racist is stupid, as well as uninformed. You can be nationilistic without being racist. Add to the fact that "American" is NOT a race.

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Now anti-spanish is racist as they follow a different line of decent, hence all people who agree with the "anti-american" line posed and dissagrees with Spain's policies now is racist and no doubt sports a large KKK tatoo on their arm.

I'm sorry but what the hell? Can you please explain this in proper English? That paragraph makes no sense.

The people who are criticsing Spain aren't doing so because they are from the Spanish race (are Spaniards Medetrinian? I'm not sure what their race is exactly) they're doing it because they disagree with what Spain is doing. SIMPLE.

And you're a hypocrite. You claim that people who disagree with Spain are calling them names and being racist, yet you're doing something very simillar. You can disagree with what someone is doing, and not be part of the KKK.