elizas_dude

This topic has facinated me over the past day and just wanted to get your views on the matter. Hope we can all have a civilised convo because i really want to understand everyones views

Im in no way racist but i just cant see how certain people beleive we should apologise for something that we didnt do? Slavery was in the past and im not saying we should forget about it because it is important that we remeber this time and work to stop current slavery. The UK Government and people had nothing to do with what happened so why should they have to apologise?

migamoo

This is a good question. But, I think for every country to apologize for slavery, it would be hard to do. I mean, there are still countries who use slaves, or debt-servitude. Slavery reaches so far back that can we even accurately apologize for it?

elisheva

I don't see why not - it's not like taking personal individual responsibility, but it is saying, our society allowed terrible things to happen that continue to have effects today, and we are deeply sorry about it. I think it's also part of taking a stand against current human rights violations - how can you honestly work against slavery today if you are unwilling to own up to your own past? Sure, it was a long time ago, and none of us were alive then. But it's far too easy to just brush things under the carpet and pretend our societies have always been happy places (heck, Canada still pretends it's never had incredibly racist laws in the past).

Jacob1983

Nope. Slavery is bad but it's too late and stupid for countries to apologize for things that happened ages ago. Besides, if you make countries apologize for things then what's next: making members of certain ethnic and racial groups go up to members of ethnic and racial groups and apologize for what your people did to their people many decades, centuries, etc... ago? Nope.
If someone forced me to go up to minorities and apologize for what ignorant stupid old white men did back in the 1800s and 1700s, I would tell them to get lost or bring it on.

elisheva

Jacob, it's not like it would be taking random white guys and forcing them to go personally apologize for slavery. It would be an official government statement.

I think it's actually very important for many people, in terms of recognition of their suffering. After all, look at the outcry in Asia now that the Japanese government has downplayed the existence of the "comfort women" and so on.

Jacob1983

Why do taxpayers have to pay for their government to apologize for something that happened ages ago and that most people realize that white people are sorry about the slavery thing?
That's stupid. It would be like McDonald's coming out and saying "our food will make you fat". It's common sense.

Besides, we don't live in a perfect world. I have been wronged and screwed by many people in my lifetime and never got an apology. Should the government track them down and force them to apologize? No, because it's trivial and pointless. I know that I have never been a slave but sometimes you just have to move on and forget about the bad things that happened to you in your past.
Forcing a government to make an apology is not right and it borders on communism in my book.

migamoo

Jacob, do you remember a few weeks back Virginia, as a state position, decided to apologize for slavery? This is the same idea but doing it on a national basis. Also, no one is forcing governments to do anything. If countries decided to do this, I'm sure it would be put to a vote somehow.

Jacob1983

No one is gonna make me apologize for something that I didn't do sorry but no dice. You'll have to arrest me or pull a gun on me.

The whole idea of forcing governments to apologize for past events especially when it's been a long long time since they happened is stupid.

Do you think the city of Boston should be forced to officially apologize for sending death threats and basically making Bill Buckner leave Boston? Nope, because the guy was forgiven when the Red Sox won the World Series back in 2004.

migamoo

Jacob, no one is forcing you, or anyone for that matter, to do anything. Where are you getting that from?

Jacob1983

America as a whole has gotten over slavery. Minorities are not slaves in America. No one is a slave in America. And if they are, then it's news to me. No need for an official apology. Besides, if there has to be an apology for slavery then why not make all the European countries that America saved in WWII say "thank you".
There's no need for it but hey why not right? Besides, I would say that affirmative action has been overused as an apology to African Americans because their ancestors were slaves. I should really try to do some research on my genealogy. Maybe I can find out that my ancestors were slaves so I can get some handouts.


This whole idea is just another sign of America is becoming wimpy and weak. We try too hard to please everyone. Not everyone can have their way. I know it sounds mean but it's the truth. If everyone had their way, no one would work. LOL

migamoo

Jacob, no one is saying America should apologize for it's part in condoning slavery in it's past. Besides, a lot of other countries have condoned slavery in the past, and some still use slave labor.

Also, Affirmative Action is not handouts to minorities. If you wish to discuss it, I remember there being a thread.

Jacob1983

You're only saying that affirmative action is not handouts because you're a minority yourself. It would be interesting to see how you felt if you were on the other side of the argument. I bet you would not like it. Try experiencing being turned down on job interviews because of your gender and race and tell me how you like it.

Some countries in the world are just uncivilized and barbaric and some of them will probably never change their ways. It would be nice if all slavery was outlawed and done away with but we don't live in a world like that. Slavery is a bad thing and it will be done away with when the world is rid of the evilness. Good luck with that. The best advice is to get out before it's too late.

migamoo

Thank you for telling me how I justify what I say. I didn't know this, but it's good that you do. But, just so you do know, and I hope you understand, just because I am a woman and a lesbian, who also happens to be white, does not automatically qualify me to receive any of the benefits of affirmative action.

If this has happened to you, I am sorry. But, that is discrimination and if you were able to prove that, than you'd have a case to sue the employer.

Ashleigh

Do WHAT? White men are not being persecuted in America and they never have been. For such a person to contend that they are persecuted because of it is ill informed. If this were the case, women would make just as much money as their male counterparts - but they don't. Just because legislature has been passed that demands equality does not mean equality has been achieved.

I don't see anything wrong with government bodies apologizing for slavery as long as no financial reparations are made. My ancestors didn't own slaves, but I'm certainly sorry that my country condoned a practice for so long. That doesn't mean we have to bend over backwards and offer financial reparations - we should simply offer our formal apologies, and mean them.

elisheva

Our board rules specifically ask you not to judge people's ideas based on their personal arguments. You have no idea why Ashley holds the opinions she does, and it's not your place to try to analyze that. You are free to disagree with her opinions - but try to do so based on logical arguments, not "you only believe that because you come from X background."

Jacob, I'm sure people said the same thing to the abolitionists in the United States when slavery still existed there. But things have changed. There's always the possibility of reform, even if it doesn't look possible to us at the time.