quaist

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I just find it so sad that the Serbs just can't accept Kosovo's independance and even attack nation who're accepting it...

*Ledi*

I agree with you. They really need to let go, because this is certainly not going to work in their favour.

Uh Blah

They just anounced a dead body was found inside the embassy.

Jen Jaree

Disturbing. What is wrong with Kosovo being an independant nation?

Papri

The argument against Kosovo being an independent nation is basically to do with the perceived threat to security it will pose to Serbia and surrounding countries. Of course, when you realise that Kosovo is tiny, underdeveloped and unequipped, one realises that the argument is moot. An additional argument is the fear that other regions that have a high proportion of a specific ethnicity in other states would follow suit and call independence, thus threatening national unity. Comparisons have been made to the Basque region, Chechnya etc.

It's a sticky situation because I can understand why the larger nations want to keep a unified state, but when you have a region that is so desperately seeking independence it's hard to ignore. And it also begs the question what what they're so desperate to be independet from- and why. My guess is that if the Kosovans and Basques and Chechens and Kurds were actually treated as equals and not third-class citizens in their perceived home-countries, then they wouldn't crave independent states so much.

*Ledi*

Exactly.

That's what I keep trying to tell people who compare Quebec to Kosovo. If we ever treat Quebec the same way that Kosovo was treated, I will fully support their wish for independence. Until then, the two situations cannot be compared.

sunnykerr

Alright, speaking as a total non-separatist Quebecer... I still say that it wouldn't do to oversimplify the reasons why people want their independence here. There's a lot of social memory and emotional baggage involved there along with a tremendous dose of not altogether unjustified paranoia. Do I think it makes sense for Quebec to seek independence? No. But let's give the people who do want it the benefit of having their own reasons for it.

And of course it's not the same as in Kosovo. Democracy is a great thing for that very reason. I remember when I was in high school. We were the only school in the region that had a program for neo-Canadians to transition into the Quebec school system. So we had a lot of students from the region. So we learned a lot more about this situation than we did about any other, really. No one can blame the Kosovars for seeking their independence. It remains to be seen if we'll actually try and help them obtain it, mind you. Democratic countries are also very good at paying lip service to causes that don't directly benefit them...

*Ledi*

I never implied any of that. What I said was that I personally would completely support Quebec's wish to separate if the people there are treated the same way the Kosovars were. So I'm not quite sure where all of them came from, but I guess you might have just misunderstood me.

sunnykerr

No, I understood. At least, I think I did

I think I'm the one who's not making herself clear enough on this one.

I was trying to say that I totally agree that Quebec separatists, today, don't have much cause for complaint.

I was also trying to say that I can see why, say, my parents are separatists. Emotionally speaking and all that.

*Ledi*

Yeah, I'm sure people there have their own reasons for wanting to separate. I never denied that. However, I don't support their wish to separate at the moment. With that being said, I also wouldn't fight to keep them as a part of this country if they don't want to be any longer.

Anyway, all I was trying to say is that people can't compare Quebec and Kosovo, and that I support the latter to be an independent country just because of what the people there have gone through. I would feel the same way about Quebec in a heartbeat if they were treated the same way, though.

goodnightboy

Well now, Serbians have many reasons for wanting to hang on to Kosovo. It's mainly due to politicians like Milosevic and the Serbian Orthordox Church using myths (specifically, the myth of the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 - you can read it up on Wikipedia) to postulate that Kosovo is ordinated to them by God. Over time, it's been kind of drilled into peoples' heads that reclaiming Kosovo is a part of their religious duty and when you talk about religion then you can sort of see why the issue is so emotionally charged for them, and why they would react to Kosovo's declaration of independence with such violence.

That's the history though. Personally, and as someone who lives halfway around the world and only knows of the Kosovo issue because she learnt about it in her Geopolitics class a year ago, I think it's crazy to hang on to an area that desperately wants to be independent. It just leads to more heartache, bloodshed etc. This goes for most separatist areas - Taiwan etc. But this opinion comes precisely because I'm as uninvolved as you can get. If you are Serbian or Kosovarian (is there such a word) then things get a lot more difficult.

sunnykerr

Well, if it's even just a little bit like Quebec (which it, unavoidably, probably is -- inasmuch as what I'm about to get into)... part of the problem is probably that not literally everyone in the region wants to separate.

I'm guessing.

Self-determination is an important right, but I do think it's not necessarily as simple as "a people wants to separate and so they should have that right." I mean, ideally, obviously, it is that simple. But people have all kinds of complex lives and motivations. Who knows?