News & Politics - Same-Sex Rights Discussion #6: Gay rights are human rights.

**Avatar** · 01-29-2012, 10:59 PM

Continue here - at the end of the last thread, we were discussing Cynthia Nixon's comments in this article as well as comments made by Tenn. State Sen. Stacy Campfield here.

Bringing over the last few posts from the last thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

I think Cynthia Nixon may have lost a good opportunity to shut up but any parent who looks upon her comments as a reason to send their kids to get "re-educated" and pray the gay away or whatever... well, they were just looking for an excuse, weren't they?

Anyone with half a brain or a bit of heart understands that you don't do that to your child. So to have a celebrity be tasked for comments she made about her own life and be held responsible for what people she never met do in the name of their cracked belief system... I think that's pushing it a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post)

I don't know- I've studied some of these conversion therapy groups as part of my Religion and Sexuality class, and they absolutely will use quotes like this to try and prove their point. "Well, here's a popular celebrity who is in a same-sex relationship and she swears it's a choice!" I don't necessarily think she can be blamed for parents trying to force their kids into groups like this, BUT, I can't help but wonder if she wants her words to be used in such a way. If she doesn't, then maybe she should have considered how she phrased this more carefully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post)

I think some of you are voicing dislike and anger over Cynthia Nixon's comments because you are insecure about your own stance and view on the matter. If you were a little more secure and confident about your view, you wouldn't be basically telling her to keep her mouth shut. She said something that you didn't like so you're going with the whole "she is entitled to her opinion but since her opinion is different from mine, she is wrong and should keep her mouth shut". That mentality is very intolerant and closed minded in my opinion.

**TheAngel** · 01-30-2012, 05:03 AM

Quote:

“I understand that for many people it’s not, but for me it’s a choice, and you don’t get to define my gayness for me,” Nixon said while recounting some of the flak gay rights activists previously had given her for treading in similar territory. “A certain section of our community is very concerned that it not be seen as a choice, because if it’s a choice, then we could opt out. I say it doesn’t matter if we flew here or we swam here, it matters that we are here and we are one group and let us stop trying to make a litmus test for who is considered gay and who is not.”

This comment right here by Cynthia Nixon is where I have a problem. I don't want to define her gayness. But she doesn't get to speak for the entire gay community. If it was her choice, that's great, but she's ignoring the fact that her words, as a celebrity, have power. I have no insecurity about my stance, Jacob, so get off your moral high horse. You're just as guilty as the rest of us when it comes to being "intolerant and close minded" and stop pulling little blanket terms out of your back pocket to use when we disagree with you. I am extremely secure and confident. I am gay. It was not a choice. Attraction is biological and physiological. You've got kids who are killing themselves because they want it to be a choice. You think a sixteen year old whose dad might kill him if he says he's gay wants to make that choice? And now some Hollywood idiot is saying "well, it was a choice for me" and now that kid's going to think there's something wrong with him because it isn't a choice for him. Nixon has commonly said that she identified as bisexual. So identifying as a lesbian is her choice. She decided to have a long term relationship with a woman instead of continuing to be sexually fluid with both sexes. That was the extent of her choice, wasn't it? But she didn't say that. And maybe in the protection of her Hollywood world, it's safe for her to swim or fly in whatever direction she wants, but not so for kids in conservative households who are being bullied by their peers.

**Cristofle** · 01-30-2012, 10:19 AM

I'm not insecure about my stance on sexuality at all- in fact, I'm very confident and comfortable in saying I believe sexuality is not a choice. Cynthia Nixon doesn't threaten me, lol, nor does this make me dislike her- I simply disagree with her.

Gray Ghost · 01-30-2012, 03:15 PM

TheAngel, you need to calm down and take a deep breathe for a second. You're taking this crap way too personal.

Again, I stand by what I said. If you are sensitive and defensive about what Cynthia Nixon said, then it shows a little dent in your armor. We just need to agree to disagree. None of us know if sexual orientation is a choice or if it's something that you're born with. We do not possess the knowledge of knowing everything so we possibly can't answer that question correctly. We did not create life so we can't possibly know the absolute answer is to that question. Answering that question would be like trying to answer what perfection is. We've never seen perfection so we have no idea what it looks like.

Besides, why do you care what a celebrity says anyways? You have your standards, she has hers, and other people have theirs. Why can't we all just accept that but at the same time don't force our standards on others?
Why do we have to have a universal agreement on gayness? If a person want to think it's normal and right, they can but they don't have the right to force that view on others. The same could be said for people that say gayness is wrong and abnormal.

It sucks that gay people kill themselves. They shouldn't but you have to realize that there are mean people on this planet. Some people should help those types of gay people that want to kill themselves. I'm not talking about having people force gay people to be straight. I'm just talking about people trying to be nice to those types of gay people in that situation. There should be people there that can attempt to talk them out of doing something like that. This goes back to the standards thing. You can have your standards but don't make a person feel so bad that they want to kill themselves.

**TheAngel** · 01-30-2012, 06:09 PM

Of course I'm taking it personally. I'M GAY!!!!

**sunnykerr** · 01-30-2012, 08:38 PM

Jacob, I don't really understand.

If you didn't want anyone to take Cynthia Nixon's statements personally, why did you bring them up three times, even when no one was making a big deal out of them? If you thought no one should care, why did you keep bringing them up till someone reacted?

Generally speaking, one would think that would mean you were waiting and looking for someone to react to them personally. You even went so far as interpreting everyone's lack of comment on her comments as anger resulting from our insecurity.

Also, a whole BA in psychology and you think what drives people to suicide is mean comments by people? Seriously? I think it's time to take the blinders off, dude. You may think you're an entertainer first and a serious person second, but this isn't funny.

So, in order to get everyone back to topic, I submit the following:

Quote:

Wash. House committee approves gay marriage bill

House committee on Monday advanced a proposal to legalize same-sex marriage in Washington state, and the Senate is expected to vote on its companion bill within days.

The House Judiciary Committee approved its gay marriage bill on a party line vote, with seven Democrats voting for it, and six Republicans voting in opposition.

Three Republican amendments were rejected, including one that would have added private businesses and individuals, such as bakers and photographers, to the religious exemption in the measure that doesn't require religious organizations or churches to perform marriages, and doesn't subject them to penalties if they don't marry gay or lesbian couples.

Rep. Jay Rodne, R-Snoqualmie, called the bill "an act of raw political power to modify the definition of marriage."

"There has been no compelling justification to abandon traditional marriage," he said.

Opponents of same-sex marriage have already promised a referendum battle at the ballot if the Legislature passes the bill and it's signed into law.

Sen. Ed Murray, a Seattle Democrat who is sponsoring one of the bills, said Monday that he expects a floor vote on gay marriage in the Senate on Wednesday. A Senate committee voted to advance Murray's bill Friday.

Before last week, it wasn't certain the Senate would have the support to pass the measure, due to a handful of undecided Democrats. But last Monday, after the first public hearing on the issue, a previously undecided Democratic senator, Mary Margaret Haugen of Camano Island, said she would be the 25th and deciding vote in support of the measure, all but ensuring its passage.

The state House already had secured enough votes to pass the bill, and Democratic Gov. Chris Gregoire publicly endorsed the proposal earlier this month.

The House bill is set to advance to a fiscal committee, but a date for a hearing has not been set.

The gay marriage bills have the backing of several prominent Pacific Northwest businesses, including Microsoft, Nike and Starbucks.

If a marriage bill is passed during this legislative session, gay and lesbian couples will be able to be wed starting in June unless opponents follow through on their threat to file a referendum to challenge it.

A referendum can't be filed until after the bill is passed by the Legislature and signed into law by Gregoire. Opponents then must turn in 120,577 signatures by June 6.

Same-sex marriage is legal in New York, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and the District of Columbia.

Lawmakers in New Jersey and Maryland are expected to debate gay marriage this year, and Maine could see a gay marriage proposal on the November ballot.

The Maine Legislature previously approved gay marriage, but it was rejected by a 2009 statewide vote, 53 percent to 47 percent.

Washington state has had a domestic partnership law since 2007 and an "everything but marriage" expansion of the domestic partnership law since 2009.

Rep. Jamie Pedersen, D-Seattle, and sponsor of the House bill, said that even though the state's domestic partnership law has increased rights to gay and lesbian couples, lawmakers have continued to hear from people "whose families have been disadvantaged because they do not have the rights of civil marriage afforded to them."

"I'm delighted that we are finally at a position where we can correct that injustice," he said.

Under the bills being considered by the Legislature, the more than 9,300 couples currently registered in domestic partnerships would have two years to either dissolve their relationship or get married. Domestic partnerships that aren't ended prior to June 30, 2014, would automatically become marriages.

Domestic partnerships would remain for senior couples where at least one partner is 62 years old or older. That provision was included by lawmakers in 2007 to help seniors who don't remarry out of fear they could lose certain pension or Social Security benefits.

Source

"In the face of the people who know they're gonna win,
There's a strength that's greater than the power of the wind,
And you can't stand around when the ice is growing thin,
For these are the days of decision."

It's not about gay rights, obviously, that song. But it is about social revolution. And Civil Rights. I think Phil Ochs wouldn't mind.

And Sen. Haugen is still my hero.

Gray Ghost · 01-31-2012, 01:30 AM

Sunnykerr, I never said suicide was funny. I don't know where you got that but okay. I know that you and other posters on here think I'm this big gay hater and wish them ill and harm. You can think that if you want but I personally don't think that way. I feel bad for gay people especially the ones that kill themselves over their gayness. They shouldn't be done the way they are. And people should try to help them deal with their issues so they don't kill themselves.

I said I was an entertainer first, and a serious person second because there are a lot of stiffs in the room.

ceilirose · 01-31-2012, 08:08 AM

Remember the post from the last thread about that State Senator from TN (Campfield) who talked about monkeys, AIDs, airline pilots in his own twiisted way?

He was refused service in a Knoxville restaurant:

Tennessee Restaurant Throws Out Anti-Gay Lawmaker | ThinkProgress

Quote:

A restaurant in Knoxville, Tennessee refused to serve state Sen. Stacey Campfield, the man who sponsored the state’s “don’t say gay” bill, compared homosexuality to bestiality, and most recently told Michelangelo Signorile that it’s virtually impossible to spread HIV/AIDS through heterosexual sex. “I hope that Stacy Campfield now knows what if feels like to be unfairly discriminated against,” the Bistro at the Bijou wrote on its Facebook wall on Sunday. The restaurant has received an overwhelmingly positive response.

**TheAngel** · 01-31-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post)

Sunnykerr, I never said suicide was funny. I don't know where you got that but okay. I know that you and other posters on here think I'm this big gay hater and wish them ill and harm. You can think that if you want but I personally don't think that way. I feel bad for gay people especially the ones that kill themselves over their gayness. They shouldn't be done the way they are. And people should try to help them deal with their issues so they don't kill themselves.

I said I was an entertainer first, and a serious person second because there are a lot of stiffs in the room.

I don't think you're a big gay hater. I think you lack general empathy and common sense. You can't put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand how comments can be hurtful. You think these kids are committing suicide because someone's being mean to them and they should just get over it because people are going to be mean their whole lives? No, that's not acceptable mentality. Yes, kids should be taught coping skills because things are going to happen. They won't always succeed, they won't always do well. But these kids aren't killing themselves because someone calls them a fag in the locker room after gym practice. They're doing it because they feel hopeless. Because people are physically and emotionally abusing them. Because they don't feel like they're going to have any quality of life because they're gay. Because they think they're going to go to hell or be kicked out of their homes or beaten and even killed, so taking matters into their own hands is better. Its great to say that people should help them with their issues, but what's some sixteen year old football player going to tell his dad, huh? Hey, I need to go to a therapist because I think I might be gay. Yeah, right.

Saw that thing about Campfield. Of course, he came back with the whole conservative BS rhetoric of "Campfield went on to note, "I always say liberals are the most open-minded people...until somebody actually has a different point of view, and then they sort of freak out and don't know how to handle people with different points of view.""

This from the guy who says that AIDS can't be transmitted between heterosexuals. Why is it that conservatives think that open-mindedness means that we're supposed to agree with them? I don't have to agree with you, but I can begrudgingly agree that you should be allowed to be an idiot if you want to be. At least when it comes to this guy. I mean, normally, I have no problems respecting other opinions, including those I don't agree with. But this guy, he's so delusional I think there's a DSM diagnosis for him.

**Cristofle** · 01-31-2012, 08:48 AM

I saw that about State Senator Stupid, and I don't even care if it's wrong or right- next time I am in Knoxville visiting my cousin, I will be going to that restaurant and ordering everything I can possibly afford. LOL.

**Avatar** · 01-31-2012, 10:46 AM

Hah. Good to see Sen. Campfield (R-Mars) get his just desserts. And once again, I see people confusing the right to free speech with the right not to face any consequences from your speech.

**Cristofle** · 01-31-2012, 02:14 PM

I don't think the restaurant actually violated any laws- he wasn't kicked out based on physical characteristics, he was kicked out because of his attitude and behavior. Well, unless you can say he's not guilty by reason of stupidity, lol.

**sunnykerr** · 01-31-2012, 09:03 PM

Restaurants have the right to kick out patrons who misbehave.

I don't know what part of town that restaurant was in, but we have a "gay village" here. I mean, it's just The Village. It's a neighbourhood with gay clubs and I guess a lot of gay people. Anyway, if someone with that kind of rhetoric walked into a restaurant in that neigourhood, I think the owners would literally have to kick them out for fear that their presence would incite a riot.

And, yeah, if I ever make it to Knoxville, Tennessee, I may just have to step in there myself.

And, Jacob no one thinks you're a gay hater.

Gray Ghost · 02-01-2012, 01:08 AM

That state senator in Tennessee sounds like a Saturday Night Live sketch character. How did he get elected? Did he give voters bribes or payoffs?
I don't get why that bozo senator wanted to pass some bill that banned teaching about homosexuality. When did schools start teaching about sexual orientation? That doesn't seem educational or worth while. Seems like a waste of time for the students and for that idiot senator to waste people's time. Sexual orientation should be something that parents discuss with their kids.

I never once said that gay kids should kill themselves. Go back and read my posts and you will find nothing about me ever posting that because I never did. I know you guys will probably tell me I'm lying or whatever but I have felt the pain that those gay kids feel when they are in high school and they are bullied, abused, and harassed on a daily basis. I went through that crap from the 4th grade to until the night I graduated from high school. I was bullied and harassed for numerous things and it made me feel like crap and helpless. No one ever stood up for me or was there for me. And I was called anti-gay names too in high school even though I'm straight.
If you go back and actually read my posts before making false and inaccurate assumptions and generalizations about me, I clearly said that those kids need to be helped and people need to take action and prevent suicides.

Liberals are just as guilty as conservatives when it comes to not being open minded. Conservatives want to control everyone's life and daily habits for the greater good. Liberals want every person to agree with them on everything so that everyone will be treated the same and they also want to force their standards, views, and opinions on others.
America just needs to make a compromise and basically say that we all have our standards but that doesn't give one person to force their standards on others. It's called respect. If you want to be gay and think it's the best thing ever, good for you. If you want to think that being gay is a sin or something negative, then fine you can. You can think however or whatever you want. It's when you start wanting to use force and hostility, then it's become a problem. You become a bigot when you're like that.

**TheAngel** · 02-01-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost (View Post)

I never once said that gay kids should kill themselves. Go back and read my posts and you will find nothing about me ever posting that because I never did. I know you guys will probably tell me I'm lying or whatever but I have felt the pain that those gay kids feel when they are in high school and they are bullied, abused, and harassed on a daily basis. I went through that crap from the 4th grade to until the night I graduated from high school. I was bullied and harassed for numerous things and it made me feel like crap and helpless. No one ever stood up for me or was there for me. And I was called anti-gay names too in high school even though I'm straight.
If you go back and actually read my posts before making false and inaccurate assumptions and generalizations about me, I clearly said that those kids need to be helped and people need to take action and prevent suicides.

No one's saying that you said gay kids should kill themselves. There isn't a single post here that says that you said that. I didn't even say that you said that and you and I definitely don't see eye to eye on things. Stop playing the victim just because we're debating this issue. And don't pretend like you know what these kids are going through. You have no idea. Unless you're gay and you live in a world where people tell you that you're a pervert, you're a pedophile, there's something wrong with you, where you risk being beaten, killed, even raped because you're gay, where you might be kicked out of your home or abused by your own parents, where you have religious and political figures saying that you aren't worthy of equal treatment and you aren't entitled to the same rights. Where you aren't entitled to the same rights. Where people make comments about you, stare at you, leer at you and call you names when you hold hands with your partner while you walk down the street. Being gay isn't just about being bullied in school. It's about being treated like a second-class citizen in numerous aspects of your life, and having to fear for it. I was bullied in school too, regularly. It sucked. But I was "straight" at the time. And I know that I have no idea how these gay kids feel at that age. I'm just blessed that I didn't have to.


Fan Forum > General Discussion > News & Politics > Same-Sex Rights Discussion #6: Gay rights are human rights.