Jerry D

Hi everyone. The last thread reached its posting limit, so please continue the discussion here. Thanks!

California_ here_ I _come

Reposting this from last thread...

LovesBitch: That's a very good question, & I can only think of one reason for it. Take lust for example, that's a sin. So is homosexuality. Homosexuality is often something physical. Gay people express feeling for one another & want to get married. Lust however, is just a feeling inside. It's not solid. Their would be no point in making a law against it, b/c no one can know what you're feeling & thinking about someone in your mind. That's just my take on it.

In Fair Verona

CIHC - I'm sorry, the last post did not make sense to me. You say that making rules against lust is pretty much irrational because it isn't tangible, though it is a sin.

Well, making rules against homosexual marriage does not stop homosexuality. Homosexuality is the "sin", not homosexual marriage, and preventing them from marrying doesn't stop it. Not to mention that like lust, love is also intangible and it's not something you are able to put laws on and stop.

*Ledi*

CHIC -

No, I'm not starting up the same arguement, I'm trying to prove a point here. You simply choose whatever the hell you wish to believe in from the Bible. You don't follow everything the Bible tells you to.

And if you see that as "justified" murder (getting rid of all Muslims), then hey, so is abortion. "Justified murder". The woman wants to protect her life and have a better life, and she can only do that if she gets rid of the baby.

You simply don't make sense because you keep on contradicting yourself. Either follow your religion completely, or don't follow it at all. Cause if you continue this way, then you're never going to make any sense.

*Ledi*

A lot of her posts aren't making sense to me.

And since she said that homosexuality is something physical or whatever.. and that lust is just a feeling; well, as we said on the other thread: Every sin is the same in God's eyes.

COOLCAT200

Adoption is an option I wish was used more I have to say. But that is just me.

*Ledi*

I think we all wish that, but unfortunately, it doesn't happen often enough for all the unwanted babies to have a family.

In Fair Verona

Heh, let's stay on topic. Although, as far as adoption goes, gay marriages would be a plus because they'd be more inclined to adopt.

- annuscka -

What is justified killing, if I may ask? This is a thing that was used during the Medieval Ages - revenge and revenge. If member A from family 1 was killed by member B from family 2, then A's brother would kill B and B's brother then kill A's brother.... until they had ruined all.
What did that solve?!
I understand that protection of your country might seem justified, I really do - and of course there are times when it's inevitable. But then I mean when you are physically attacked - not just feel like you might get attacked. Because if you attack someone because youthink they attack you, then I can swear they WILL attack you, and boom, you caused what you wanted to prevent.

I agree with that you either follow everything in the Bible, or then nothing. Complete fundamentalists scare me a little, but only when they try to force their beliefs on others. Which making laws against numerous things IS.

Of course no one is perfect and can't do everything right all the time, but. If you follow the Bible on two things, then I think it is pretty odd not to follow number three.
With this logic stretched beyond religion, people could say "I'm against murder and rape, but I do think everyone should be able to take what they need from stores if they are poor/hungry".

All above is not just meant for CHIC, but for many people I have met offline as well.

Re adoption, I do think that would be very good - if you can't make marriages leagal, then at least let them adopt! Why, I ask why, should two loving people be kept from adopting when there are millions of lonely and suffering children?! You let single people adopt - at least many countries do - what's the difference if a man or two men adopts a baby, if I may ask?

No1important

Do you "Christians" honestly believe "God" would want anybody to viciously discriminate against one group of society? I think not.

I think if "God" does exist he/she would want everyone to get along and overcome our differences and make a better planet for us all to live on together, whether we are male, female, green, gay or straight or what ever our religious beliefs are. He/She made everyone different and I don't believe real "Christians" should judge people who are different. I thought "God" was the only one to judge?

There are many religious leaders that don't "run down" gay people or gay marriage. The Dali Llama was here earlier this year and he did not run them down, nor did Reverend Desmond Tutu when he was here. It is the the Pope, Pat Buchanan(sp) and people like George Bush the self proclaimed Conservative Christian who claims to talk to God daily, that cause un-needed needed discrimination.

The Bible was written by man and has been changed over the years, not to mention contradictions in it. People who used to have "Mental difficulties" were branded as demons. Why was reincarnation taken out of the Bible? Why do Catholics have different Bible? What on Earth is Purgatory, anyways? Could someone answer that.

Everybody "sins" and anyone can find a line in the Bible to suite their own view.

If "God" does exist I can not see him promoting discrimination, like the American Christian Right does. If you go by what so "called Christians" say and do to wards other people who do not follow their beliefs, they themselves would be dammed to hell for all eternity, right? It does not work both ways.

You never hear of other civilized countries saying they will change constitution to take away rights of one group, like "W" wants to do with an amendment to ban gay marriage. So gays are 3rd rate people in America? I think not. At least Canada seems more sensible and progressive and I urge American Gays to come here and get married or apply for refugee status if they feel they are being unjustly persecuted in America (the so called home of freedom). Canada's constitution guarantees much more freedom than Americas anyways.

FYI- I have been married to a female for 16 years and have two kids.

Really though, what is the big deal? The world is not going to implode. The federal government has not even passed the law here federally but 7/10 provinces and 1/3 territories already allow it, and Canada has not fallen off the planet or suffered destruction because of gay marriage. I really for the life of me do not understand why America has such a big problem with this. I have not heard one good reason to prohibit gay marriage as there are none.

And until certain groups of society can get over their petty grievances this planet will be doomed.

Jerry D

I agree. Let's try to stay on topic. We have other threads to discuss the other issues that have been brought up on this thread. Let's stick to discussing same sex marriage on this thread. Thanks.

In Fair Verona

Seriously, ITA. Whenever I bring that up I always get the argument that the kid is going to grow up confused, etc... if anything the only thing I can imagine the kid growing up as is much more tolerant and understanding, a good person. Plus, having a loving family beats being in an orphanage, who cares if you have one or two dads or moms, it's better than one dad or one mom or, hey, none at all.

The kid might get a hard time at school but that is not his/her or the parents fault, that is just the fault of ignorant and rude kids at school, and it's them that need to change not gay couples.

Endless Rain

Well what I have to say about this is that it's the straight parents that are putting it in these ignorant and rude kids minds that homosexuality is odd, that it's an anomoly in society. It's the hate that sprouts ever more hate. It's not that confusing having two moms or two dads. It's not that awful having a lesbian mom or a gay dad. I know someone on this board that's the perfect example because she is the sweetest most down to earth person I've ever met. She has better perspective than anyone else and is a lot more open minded than say someone who would have a straight mom and a straight dad who has cursed me out because he was taught that homosexuality was wrong.

No1important

I would think "children" from same sex marriages would be a lot better off than children from single parent households or parents going through a viscious divorce.

I am very shocked and appalled at all the hatred, discrimmination, and general negativity aimed towards people(gays, muslims, non christians) in America that do not conform to the christian rights views.

TokyoNiGHTS

Great point. I actually think that's a big reason why there's so much hatred toward the idea of gays being able to adopt. People know that if they're brought up in such a household they will become much more tolerant of gays. They're scared of a tolerant society toward gays and one way of preventing that is by not letting them be adopted by them where they'll realise that gays live a normal life just like a straight couple and aren't anything to "fear".