News & Politics - Same Sex Marriage Continued - Page 3

pacifierrocks · 04-19-2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Enigma, I.C.:
I'm going to live my life the way I want to. I will not allow your ilk to make me miserable. If that's wrong, then I guess I'll be happiest person in hell.

[img]smilies/clap.gif[/img] i think i love you. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

Katis · 04-19-2004, 10:21 PM

bugs I am going to have to agree with AirBear and InfernalDoll, I am having a lot of trouble understanding your posts. I don't know if English is your second language, if it is we'll cut you some slack on the grammar issues... Also, your improper use of the Quote feature is making your posts hard to separate, it would be great if you could fix that in the future.

So...there still has not been presented any reasons against homosexuality and homosexual marriage that are not based in religion. Considering that the Church and the State are supposed to be separate all of your arguments still don't mean anything because they have no place making laws in this country.

[ 04-19-2004: Message edited Katis ]

bugs8476 · 04-19-2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Infernal Doll:


Okay, I'm going to try to understand this post as well as I can ("i don't it"? What does that mean?).

To GrhmLz and bugs8476:
You may believe that homosexuality is breaking God's law, but that is a BELIEF. It doesn't apply in the REAL world, which is secular. The world is NOT run by religion, and this is the issue at hand, here. Gay marriage is inevitable; the government will eventually realize a little thing called seperation of church and state, and realize that marriage is a right for all human beings to have. You can gnash your teeth all you want. If you don't like the fact that gay marriage exists when it happens, then leave the country, and go to a country where it is not law. This country grants humans basic rights, and marriage is one of them.

Homosexuality is breaking God's law, which is not a BELIEF, but is actually a "Spritual Fact". It does apply to the real world because in the real world, many followers of god exist, but feel free to exist in your "Secular never-never land", and continue to believe that it is the only way life operates.

No, wrong, the government is not governed by a single religion, however, their are people who carry their religious ideals with them into government. This forms a foundation of what influences certain policies and laws.

Seperation of church and state is to prevent the church from being the soul govering entity. It did not mean that people Had to Hide their religious ideals. Marriage is not the right, it never was, and it will never will be.

Why don't you do us all a favor when this country refuse to let it become law, and go to your own little island and make it law their. Then all homosexuals and all homosexual supporters of marriage can live like one big happy family.(I know this is unrealistic, but i conclude it to demostrate how rediculous your last statement was. What are you gone to do? Have all non-supporters of gay marriage herded out of the country, because I am only one of many.)

Feel free to respond....Check you later

JULIE>....... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

AirBear · 04-19-2004, 10:49 PM

Good lord, LMAO. There are just no words, the language barrier is just too strong here, so I'm gonna resort to other tactics.

::Care Bear stares::

*Lauren · 04-19-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Being wise.....

Being wise could you please start using proper captilisation and grammar? Thanks! Makes you look a bit smarter.

Quote:

Homosexuality is breaking God's law, which is not a BELIEF, but is actually a "Spritual Fact".

A spiritual fact in YOUR set of beliefs. Not anyone else's. Why should people be forced to believe what you do?

I'm going to ask this question one more time and I'm going to put it in bold and I'm going to capatalise it. I'm just sick of it being asked countless times and never being answered. Katis, feel free to edit it, if you feel its inappropriate.

HOW WILL PEOPLE BEING GAY AFFECT YOU?

WHAT WILL CHANGE IN YOUR LIFE IF PEOPLE ARE GAY?

WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO FOLLOW YOUR SET OF BELIEFS?

WHY ARE YOU ADVOCATING THAT AMERICA STOP THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE?

Katis · 04-19-2004, 10:59 PM

I don't have a problem with them. In fact I would really like to have those questions answered as well. I've been asking for pages why their religion should dictate everyone else, but alas, no answer.

Superabo · 04-19-2004, 11:00 PM

Reread my post, bugs8476.

Quote:

Homosexuality is breaking God's law, which is not a BELIEF, but is actually a "Spritual Fact". It does apply to the real world because in the real world, many followers of god exist,

Will you please get out of your religious mindset and consider this situation objectively for just one moment? Yes, it is a belief, whether you like it or not. Who cares if there are many people who believe the same things you do? That doesn't make it a tangible fact. That makes it a belief shared by many people.

Quote:

their are people who carry their religious ideals with them into government. This forms a foundation of what influences certain policies and laws.

Yes, but there is a difference between using your personal morals to make certain decisions and completely disregarding the principiles that a country is based on.

Quote:

Marriage is not the right, it never was, and it will never will be.

Again, like it or not, marriage has become a legal institution in this country. It's not bound by religion anymore. Thus, it is a right that people should have. I am completely fine with certain churches refusing to marry a gay couple, because it goes against their beliefs. However, depriving homosexuals of this right altogether is not one of the things this country was built on.

Quote:

Why don't you do us all a favor when this country refuse to let it become law, and go to your own little island and make it law their. Then all homosexuals and all homosexual supporters of marriage can live like one big happy family.(I know this is unrealistic, but i conclude it to demostrate how rediculous your last statement was. What are you gone to do? Have all non-supporters of gay marriage herded out of the country, because I am only one of many.)

You missed my point. I didn't express the want to rid this country of people who don't support or accept homosexuality. I was simply saying that in the end, this country is not run by Christianity, or any religion at all. It's run by the principles on which it was founded. It seems only fair to give homosexuals the right to marriage.

ETA:

Quote:

I've been asking for pages why their religion should dictate everyone else, but alas, no answer.

I feel your pain, hon. Arguments like these tend to go around and around in circles.

[ 04-19-2004: Message edited Infernal Doll ]

Katis · 04-19-2004, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Infernal Doll:
I feel your pain, hon. Arguments like these tend to go around and around in circles.

Perhaps because they have no answer? For all the talk on how it isn't just religious people that oppose homosexuality I have yet to see any reasons that don't include religious beliefs.

Also, bugs, if marriage is not a right, does that mean you would have no problem taking away the right of heterosexual couples to marry? After all you wouldn't be depriving them of a right.

pacifierrocks · 04-19-2004, 11:18 PM

i would also like to hear an argument against homosexual marriage that religion isn't part of.

Timeo · 04-19-2004, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bugs8476:
 No. Not quite. My source is more accurate then yours, you know, the "Biblical Times"..,the new and improved version of the bible for the Modern/day youth.

This is what I think of your incoherent arguments.

...

migamoo · 04-20-2004, 12:01 AM

Here's a question, if some people believe that marriage isn't a right, why are we even debating this subject? That wouldn't make much sense would it?

And yes, it would be nice to hear something other than religious beliefs for this thread. There really has to be something else.

Ashley

StellaSlight · 04-20-2004, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Posted by bugs7684 :

Good for euroupe that makes to place i know of now...europe/cananda.....Religious people may have said at the time that it won't harm anybody, but they weren't thinking about the future....but who does....Like to make wise cracks.....I think i knew that two guys/two woman cant' make babies...duh .....and if you read my post right about the population increasin in letting gay marriages happen...duh

Jail and mental institutions won't happen when the world breaks out in chaos.....You have everybody doing what they want, with no control over any sitution
Never said that it was gone to happen right a way. but pretty soon it may come down to that

A gov't can in force all the laws they want....But if the public starts to go off and do what they want....there will be no control what so ever...(understand)......Back in the 60's they didn't have the technolgy we have today either....so that was a sore exmaple...Homosexuals that commit a act with the same sex is going aganist gods law....thats what i was saying

Since your from france you don't know everything our democracy does, so to use that would be stupid....ecpesailly coming into the end times

First let me tell you how stupid it is to say that since I live in France I don't know anything about what's going on in the US. I happen to study YOUR civilization, YOUR laws and YOUR history, YOUR democracy so I can even teach you a thing or two about them. Like how the democracy that you're so proud of has been painful, bloody and really hypocrit for centuries, not even being a democracy (with the issues of slavery, the Native Americans, Chinese, Irish, Jews or Japanese, and in ALL cases, the support of your religion). But that would be another topic. On the other side, you don't seem to know alot about your own society either (nor the world'd), so maybe it's time you read some of the stuff the other people say.

Like :

1. You say there's two places you know where marriage between gays is allowed : Europe/Canada. Well, Europe is not a country, so you can divide it in lots of countries, and then next time you can say that you know about a dozen of countries who allow gay marriages.

2. You didn't even read correctly. I said that there were religious people who were against gay marriages in Europe. A lot. You know, the radical religious people who think that it's a sin to be homosexual, and that's why it shouldn't be allowed in the civil law (while being totally aware of the separation between Church/State). Well, then, years after the passing of the law that allowed gay people to marry, the same religious people admitted that this law didn't give Christians' rights away and that this law was harmless.

3. You said that gay marriages will increase population, but then claimed that you know that homosexuals can't have children. I don't need to read your previous post to say that it is contradictory, ignorant and untrue. Homosexuals can't have children therefore they can't increase the population. Period. Even through adoption, they can't increase the number of the poulation since those babies would have been conceived by heterosexuals anyway. Here's your answer.

4. Chaos won't happen just because you're rooting your theory of chaos on views of insane people, fanatic people who would prefer kill homosexuals than see them be granted a civil rights. The huge minority of the people, although wary, are not crazy. You're a very minority and when the time comes for this little 'chaos', I'd have no sympathy at all for those, and I'd gladly see them put either in jail or mental institution.
And geez, you just sound like those fanatic muslim terrorists from Al-Quaeda that preach/predict the war against the people they don't like, because God don't like them. Seriously. Or worse, you just sound like the KKK with their views on Blacks, and the fact that they have to 'protest' against the civil rights that are given to the Black people and create chaos.

5. You don't seem to understand the legal/political system. A government can enforce all the laws that are PASSED. See, you're forced to live in a society with divorce and pre-marital sex. You're forced to live in a country with people from other religion. You're even forced to hear all our opinions against your God's laws, because it's a free-speech country. Why aren't you already off in the streets, creating chaos?

6. YOu said that back in the 60's they didn't have the technology we have now... What do you mean, you mean people from today will throw computers at the government?
What's your point by bringing up technology anyway? Does it have anything to do with homosexual marriages?

7. You're saying : "Homosexuals that commit a act with the same sex is going aganist gods law....thats what i was saying".
AAAh, finally. I haven't understood it after you guys have repeated that argument a billion times. And in the end it's always the same argument and the only one : your belief that God hates homosexuals just as you. The whole 'chaos'/gays-will-increase-the-population crap was just it, crap.

Jess519 · 04-20-2004, 11:48 AM

I'm a little late to this thread, since I wasn't around when the posting explosion happened a few days ago. But I wanted to second the motion that I'd love to hear some non-religious based arguments against gay marriage. This thread seems to have turned into a "why homosexuality is against God's law" thread...which will be a never ending debate.

GrhmLz and bugs8476: As a Christian myself, I'm somewhat appalled by some of the things you've posted. Mostly, I wonder how you can be so certain that you know exactly what God says, what God wants, what God will do, what the future will bring. Is their no room for doubt or uncertainty in your version of Christianity? None of us can be completely certain of what God says, of exactly what everything in the Bible means. And those who think they can are dangerously close to trying to turn themselves into God.

Basically, I'm just glad that my version of Christianity is different from yours. Because I'm allowed to have some uncertainty about Biblical passages, I'm allowed to keep my religion completely separate from my politics, and I'm allowed to live my life with going around preaching about the perversions and immorality of homosexuals.

ColorMist · 04-20-2004, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pacifierrocks:
i would also like to hear an argument against homosexual marriage that religion isn't part of.

Ditto.

Anyway, one of my English teachers recently asked us to write a journal response to a play we had recently read (Trifles) asking which groups of people in the 20th century are marginalized. I answered "gay couples who want the right to marry." I'd copy and paste the entire response here, but I don't think it's as well-written as it could have been (I kind of rushed through it).

But basically I said that I didn't see how two gay people getting married would undermine my parents' marriage, or my best friend's marriage, or the marriage that I'll have one day when I'm older. And that marriage is about love and spending the rest of your life with someone...I think that's what we need MORE of in the United States -- and less divorce.

I also put that I believe that gay marriage will be legalized by the end of the decade. (Maybe that's optimistic. But "by the end of two decades" sounded so extreme.)

And not only am I conservative, I'm also Christian (actually Roman Catholic). I just think that the "argument" against gays in the Bible isn't on the mark (like a lot of things in the Old Testament aren't on the mark -- the mixed fabric thing, the stoning thing, etc).
-[-*colormist*-]-

This post brought to you by the "ColorMist is back at the N&P board becauase she has no-where else on FF to post seeing as how freaking NO ONE is posting on her Todd and Blair thread" Fund

Ice Queen follower · 04-20-2004, 01:02 PM

ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUAL

I thought that was our motto. Same sex couples have just as much right to be married than any straight couple.

Really I want to know why is it so horrible if two same sex people want to be married. Its not like they will cause a health crisis, start a war, or everyone would die.

its just lame. Same sex couples are no different then straight couples. they all love don't they. then why can't they express their love by being married.

I bet whats next you wont be allowed to have white/black marriages. With the way this country is heading agaisnt homosexuals next they will turn on races. Its just sicking.

All people should have the right to marry who they want, when they want!