News & Politics - Same Sex Marriage Continued - Page 17

dyxlecis gril · 04-30-2004, 03:00 PM

i'm not buying one word of that, and even if i was...

maybe you SHOULD be oppressed a little, because you talk like your religion and your beliefs are the most important thing in the world, and that you are the only people who deserve the rights to practice them.

homosexuality is something that's in you from the time you start figuring out gender roles, like 3-4 years old, homosexuality is feelings you develop in grade school, that you know are different from everyone elses, but you don't know what they are, and you can't put words to them. homosexuality is something you struggle with for years to come to terms with, because am i? aren't i? ..am i? no, i can't be. ..but i am.

i know this, because i am. and you don't, because you're not. and you will never understand, but you could at least trust me when i tell you that i am not lying, and i am not making this up, because i've felt this and this is real.

homosexuality is as natural as having blue eyes. homosexuality is as natural as prefering cheese over bologna sandwhiches.

religious belief is something you are taught. religious belief is a choice. have you ever met anyone in your whole life who discovered god without hearing about him from someone else? no.

oh, and p.s. could you please just let me know if you read this at all, or if you just ignore everything i say because you know that i'm right. hm?

[ 04-30-2004: Message edited dyxlecis gril ]

AirBear · 04-30-2004, 03:06 PM

GrhmLz, I'm interested to learn more about your standing on this issue, so please answer this question:

Would you disagree with a public school disallowing parts of a student's speech against interracial marriage, african-americans, jews, etc if done in an open forum (like the one described in the Catholic girl's case)?

GrhmLz · 04-30-2004, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coren:
What if their religion says it's ok for same sex marraige?

Which religion has scipture that endorses same sex marriage?

Quote:

Originally posted by Coren:
You truly ARE discriminating against them by not allowing it, opressing their religion.

This is my point. These other religions aren't being suppressed. Schools are endorsing "tolerance" of other faiths while suppressing "christianity" which contains doctrine against homosexuality.

For example, in New York City Schools during Christmas, they refused to allow displays of Christian Nativity scenes but they allowed displays of the Jewish menorah and the Islamic star and crescent with an excuse of "promoting diversity and multiculturalism." Yeah, ok! But no diversity for the most important cultural institution shaping Western Civilization? And on another occasion, a principal sent a memo that urged teachers to bring Jewish, Islamic, and Kwanzaa symbols to school but any references to Christianity were absent. Then in Mississippi, students were made to sit through an assembly where Kwanzaa had been celebrated, Chanukah was taught, and students were led to chant "Celebrate Kwanzaa." Any Christmas hyms that were permitted had any references to Jesus Christ and other christian content removed. The "Christmas Tree" was renamed a "Giving Tree." Lastly, in Texas, a school banned the singing of Christmas songs and threatened grade reductions for students who refused to participate in singing songs of other faiths. Again, examples where celebrated virtues of tolerance and diversity are accorded to all but Christians.

Quote:

Originally posted by Coren:
Nothing in Christianity says "Thou shalt not live where the homosexuals get married"

In Christian doctrine, the bible does state not to yolk yourself with an unbeliever.

dyxlecis gril · 04-30-2004, 03:18 PM

i don't really care if your religion isn't seen as the most important one. honestly.

because this is about oppressing gay people throughout the entire history of the world, not about how christians have forced their beliefs on other civilizations for at least 2000 years and now all of a sudden people don't care so much. boo hoo, i say to you. boo frickin' hoo.

AirBear · 04-30-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

This is my point. These other religions aren't being suppressed. Schools are endorsing "tolerance" of other faiths while suppressing "christianity" which contains doctrine against homosexuality.

That's not entirely true. We had to read the Bible for a summer assignment in Honors English here in California in a public school. There's nothing wrong with that because you must know biblical allusions to understand literature.

Quote:

For example, in New York City Schools during Christmas, they refused to allow displays of Christian Nativity scenes but they allowed displays of the Jewish menorah and the Islamic star and crescent with an excuse of "promoting diversity and multiculturalism." Yeah, ok!

I don't agree with that, and I don't think most people would; you should either have no symbols of religion or have truly every religion shown "for diversity". There's cases such as that that are unfair to Christianity, but there's also cases where the same thing happens to other religions. Christianity takes unfair precedence many times in this country also.

Please answer my question in the previous post.

Coren · 04-30-2004, 03:54 PM

Hold on.

It says don't yolk yourself with an unbeliever. Fine. That doesn't mean don't live where homosexuals do. And if you're interperting it to mean that, then shouldn't you not live where Jews, Athiests, Muslims, Bhuddists (sp), etc live? They're all unbelievers too..

GrhmLz · 04-30-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AirBear:
GrhmLz, I'm interested to learn more about your standing on this issue, so please answer this question:

Would you disagree with a public school disallowing parts of a student's speech against interracial marriage, african-americans, jews, etc if done in an open forum (like the one described in the Catholic girl's case)?

Are you sure that you are really interested in learning about how I stand on this issue or is this just a question intended to trap me somehow?

Well, in either case, I will answer this the best that I can for you. Personally, I believe that Hate/Crime legislation does play a beneficial role because there are people who will cross the line from "free speech" to violence. Therefore, if homosexuals are at high risk, they should be protected by this law just like any other group that needs protection from physical harm.

Now, you asked about free speech regarding issues such as African Americans, Interracial Marriage, Jews, etc...at an open forum!

There are many factors that would play into this. First off, I advocate free speech. Would I advocate free speech at an open forum regarding these issues? Yes. Does this mean that I would agree with everything a speaker had to say? No. Is it possible that I could be completely revolted by a speaker's comments or suggestions? Absolutely. And if I was I would walk out of the open forum and refuse to listen. I would not emphasize that the speaker's right to free speech should be "jeopordized" because I feel disgusted. Because the moment this person's free speech is placed in jeopardy, that means that anybody's can be.

If I had attended this open forum, and someone started ranting on about killing all African Americans, Jews, and Homosexuals I would get up and not listen to the lecture because this speech would be promoting violence.

I can give you an example that occured one year in my state. In one of the cities, the KKK came and the police authorities had to come out to protect them because they were holding some type of forum where they would be engaging in free speech. Obviously, this stirred up controversy. But even if you and I detest what they stand for they still have their free speech rights. They are able to promote what they stand for. Now, whether or not they ever crossed any lines that would justify Hate/Crime speech is beyond me?

The problem that I have with hate-speech legislation is that not only does it begin to restrict free-speech, this legislation gets abused. It protects certain classes of people from every little "utterance" while other unprotected classes of people are free game to be the victims of all the hate speech there is.

However, it is important to remember that in the case of the Catholic girl, the forum's topic dealt with the topic of religion and homosexuality. This girl was being denied her "free-exercise right" to express her religion and its teachings. And the Roman Catholic religion views homosexuality as a sinful lifestyle.

AirBear · 04-30-2004, 04:06 PM

GrhmLz - Thank you, I really wasn't trying to trap you, just wanted to know if we were seeing eye to eye on the issue. I totally agree with everything in your post [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img], LOL, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

GrhmLz · 04-30-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coren:
Hold on.

It says don't yolk yourself with an unbeliever. Fine. That doesn't mean don't live where homosexuals do. And if you're interperting it to mean that, then shouldn't you not live where Jews, Athiests, Muslims, Bhuddists (sp), etc live? They're all unbelievers too..

Your analogy makes no sense. Jews, Muslims, and Bhuddists all prescibe to a higher supreme being. The difference between the Jewish faith and the Christian faith is that Christians except Christ as the Saviour, whereas, the Jewish faith does not believe that the chosen Messiah has come yet. Muslims do not refer to "God" as God. They refer to the supreme being as "Ahlah." The "Koran" is actually very similar in doctrine to the Christian bible. My sister has read the Koran and we share a friend of the Islamic faith. Homosexuality is not condoned in the Islamic faith and fornication is forbidden as well. Christianity refers the Savior as "Jesus Christ" and Muslims refer the savior as "Mohammad." Therefore, they are all believers.

Atheists do not believe in the existence of a supreme being at all.

Nice try though! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

GrhmLz · 04-30-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AirBear:
GrhmLz - Thank you, I really wasn't trying to trap you, just wanted to know if we were seeing eye to eye on the issue. I totally agree with everything in your post [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img], LOL, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]We agree on something? Oh well, I guess it's bound to happen! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

P.S. The only reason that I asked if it was a question to entrap was because sometimes things are meant sarcastically on the board. But thanks for clearing that up! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

GrhmLz · 04-30-2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dyxlecis gril:
maybe you SHOULD be oppressed a little, because you talk like your religion and your beliefs are the most important thing in the world, and that you are the only people who deserve the rights to practice them.

Maybe "we" should be oppressed a little? Well, that just says it all doesn't it?

Secondly, I can talk like "my religion and beliefs are the most important thing in the world" just like anybody else can. The right of free speech and the right to exercise religion freely is in the Constitution.

And as for your comment, "you are the only people that deserve the rights to practice them?" I don't even understand how you reasoned this. Anybody can practice the Christian faith if they want to but why would you want to when your lifestyle clashes with its teachings?

Quote:

Originally posted by dyxlecis gril:
homosexuality is something that's in you from the time you start figuring out gender roles, like 3-4 years old, homosexuality is feelings you develop in grade school, that you know are different from everyone elses, but you don't know what they are, and you can't put words to them. homosexuality is something you struggle with for years to come to terms with, because am i? aren't i? ..am i? no, i can't be. ..but i am.

Okay, I need to ask a serious question here? If homosexuality is so natural as you claim, then why all the confusion? I doubt at 3 and 4 years of age you were fully aware of that term and what it meant so society could not have been causing that confusion?

And are you telling me that at 3 and 4 years of age you were already feeling sexually drawn to someone of the same gender? You wouldn't have even reached puberty yet when all of the hormones begin to kick in. The reason that I ask is because growing up as a child a had this feeling of being different from everyone but it never drew me towards the same sex. And I wasn't feeling a sexual draw to the opposite gender at 3 and 4? So, I can't help but wonder if "that feeling of being different" was used and society confused you by suggesting that it had to be because you must be gay?

Quote:

Originally posted by dyxlecis gril:
i know this, because i am. and you don't, because you're not. and you will never understand, but you could at least trust me when i tell you that i am not lying, and i am not making this up, because i've felt this and this is real.

I never said that you were lying about the way you are feeling. What I have demonstrated on this board dealth with where my faith tells me that feeling comes from and that it is not something that you are just born with.

Quote:

Originally posted by dyxlecis gril:
religious belief is something you are taught. religious belief is a choice. have you ever met anyone in your whole life who discovered god without hearing about him from someone else? no.

For the purposes of this thread, you can say that if you wish.

But I have come to know other things that I choose not to post on this thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by dyxlecis gril:
oh, and p.s. could you please just let me know if you read this at all, or if you just ignore everything i say because you know that i'm right. hm?

If I knew that you were right, I would have agreed with you a long time ago. True?

But I don't agree with you. I have read your posts and there just isn't much to say because we don't even come close to seeing "eye to eye" on anything!

Superabo · 04-30-2004, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Atheists do not believe in the existence of a supreme being at all.

Okay, but they're still in this country, and you're living amongst them. Are you not still going against your interpretation of "yolking yourself with a nonbeliever"?

Katis · 04-30-2004, 07:41 PM

New Thread.