News & Politics - Same Sex Marriage Continued - Page 13

bugs8476 · 04-27-2004, 05:02 PM

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Originally by Fieryangel:

B]But God wouldn't understand someone being gay? God wouldn't accept that person but he'll accept someone who gets an abortion?[/b]

I don't understand you sometimes when you quote my posts. Its either you don't understand my quotes, or your just reading them how you want to read them. I feel that "God" will accept a homosexual, if he/she is sorry, and wants forgivenness for their actions. As for abortion i said "i don't agree with it, the only time i would support it if a girl got raped, and got pregnant". I feel that god would understand the circumstance under that. Being homosexul is a act of an indiviual that goes by their sexual preference. Getting an abortion is wrong, becuase you have to take the responsibility of the problem that comes with it, getting pregnant. But being raped and getting pregnant is not something that a female has brought upon herself. Besides the point, i never said that god would accept a person with abortion but not if their gay...So, Please don't switch my words around.

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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:

Where in my post did i say that people are born gay?

Nobody said you said it. I was stating it.

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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:

And you are being hypocritical right now. First you say that you don't want your children learning about homosexuals at all, and now you want them too whn they get older. Please make up your mind.

I am not being hypocritical, you are just not reading my post the way you want to read them. I'll word it a little bit different for you, so you can understand. I basically was saying that, if it came down to it, that my child would know that a homosexuality is wrong, and goes against the word of the lord. I never stated that i wanted them to learn it when they are older. You are just switching my words around again. So please if you don't understand my post, just PM me and ill explain OK. Because your making no sense when your switching the words around.

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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:

Because you are going to raise them in the Christian Faith?

What is "YES". Your smart.

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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:

And what makes you think your children are going to see being a homosexual as wrong?

By preaching "God's Laws" to them.

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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:

I was raised in the Christian faith and am a Christian, but I find nothing wrong with it.

I was raised as a christian, and I do find something wrong with it.

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Orginally Posted by Feiryangel:

What if your child turns out to be gay? Are you going to make him/her an outcast?

I Will love my child no matter what. But I think i would have to outcast him/her, not to judge or condemn them, because that's god's job, but because i don't agree with it. It is breaking "Gods Laws". My child will know that homosexualitiy is wrong. If my child choose to do so, which is caused by "free will", I would have to outcast him because I don't want anything to do with something that is wrong and and is breaking the words of god. Homosexuality is wrong and I don't agree with it. As far as this goes, will see what happens.

JULIE...... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

Coren · 04-27-2004, 05:31 PM

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quote:
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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:
Where in my post did i say that people are born gay?

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Nobody said you said it. I was stating it.

So where's your evidence?

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I am not being hypocritical, you are just not reading my post the way you want to read them.

I thought you just said that we WERE reading them how we watned to. Now im confused.

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quote:
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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:
Because you are going to raise them in the Christian Faith?

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What is "YES". Your smart.

So what about Christian's who (like some in this thread) think it's ok? Or who turn out to be gay themselves? You can't control what other people think.

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Originally Posted by Feiryangel:
And what makes you think your children are going to see being a homosexual as wrong?

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By preaching "God's Laws" to them.

Again, that doesnt always work. Great use of the " though [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Now, your basic point is, homosexuality goes against God's laws, right? So please, by all means..could you give us some back up for God saying that?

bugs8476 · 04-27-2004, 06:10 PM

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Originally Posted by pinx:

No one was "preaching" any type of matter in my Health class. In fact, our teacher would follow everything with, "you all are going to have different opinions on this, based on the types of influences you had growing up, religion, as well as personal comfort". That particularly went with abortion and homosexuality.

Supposly this is what your teacher said, but besides the point given a class on homosexualitiy is not something some people want to be sitting in because of their beliefs. This was you health class, you don't know about other Health classes at other schools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinx:

No one said that "being gay is good and it is truly what God wants!". Neither did the speaker. It was merely to educate and correct any misconceptions people had, like that all gay people had Aids, or they were the only types of people that got it.

Just because nobody maybe spoke up doesnt' mean they don't know it, or it could of had just been a room full of people who don't know anything about the religious side on homosexualitiy. Being educated about something that some people don't agree on, is not being taught about correct and misconcepitons people had. It's just teaching something that is going agaisnt god's laws, and man is just filling the younger generation, like as if it is ok, when in reality it is not.

[quote] Originally Posted by pinx:

We also discussed negative terms, and terms used incorrectly. I would hope that all students would get a class like this, because whether or not they approved of homosexuality, it did present a glimpse as to what life was like for gay people.

Just because you agree on this class, doesn't mean others do. Being taught about homosexualitity is not right. Your drilling it into peoples heads as if it is ok, when it isn't. I don't want my child sitting there thinking it is ok, when it is a wrongful act.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

Also, you said you wouldn't want your child being taught was against God. You're god maybe. If not everyone believes in God, or you're God, how can you say that they are automatically wrong?

There is only one god out there, and to teach my child right from wrong, is not hurtful. Just because everyone doesn't believe in god does not mean that the act is wrong. If it wasn't wrong it wouldn't be in the bible, so you may not believe in god, but it still doesn't through out the fact that it was stated, and it is a sin.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

I must say that I disagree with the point that no one is born being homosexual. This is often a key point in determining wheather gay couples should be allowed to be married or not.

NICE! But this is your opinion, and mine is the other way. I don't think this supports anything, on why should gay couples should marry. This sound like a bunch of crap....Please explian your reasoning....maybe then I'll consider.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

In my personal opinion, either no one is born with a sexual preference, or everyone has a sexual preference when they were born, be that gay, straigh, bi or whatever.

Having a sexual preference is not what your born with, but simply a choose of "Free will". Woman was made for a man, and a man for a woman. Homosexualility you were not born with, otherwise, the bible would not state that homosexual activity will not be let into the kingdom of God. So to say your born like that is not true.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

When you are beginning to develop feeling of attraction, you cannot help who you find attractive.

I feel if you were born with "Free Will", then of course you can control who your attracted to. Your not born that way, its a choice to be gay.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

To say that 14-year-old boy who is finding himself attracted to a guy walking down the street, when he is probably just go through feeling of any kind for the first time, is in my opinion not correct.

A 14-year-old boy is very menatelly and physiclly stable. This 14-yr-old boy knows what he is doing is a choice, because born with "Free will" you have the obligation to choose your own destiny. So to say that this boy is going through feeling of any kind for the first time is just some lame excuse to try to prove a point that your not making.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

To say that that 14-year old boy, whose life would most likely made considerably harder if he was indeed gay, would CHOOSE to be gay, in my opinion is incorrect.

A 14 year old boy is old enought to make a choose to be gay or straight. Is nothing he was forced to do or born with. If he's life is considerably harder than he brought upon himself with the choose of being gay.

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Originally Posted by pinx:

You are born with a preference. As you begin to hit puberty you begin to sort through all of those different feeling of attraction to find our who you prefer. It just so happens that the majority of us are attracted to the other sex. You cannot help being attracted to who you are attracted to. further proof, homosexulity is not new, it dates as far back as the beginning of mankind.

No, You are born with "Free Will", which then gives you the choose of a preference. Just because you hit puberty and sort through all of those different feelings of attraction to find who you perfer, doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is wrong, it goes agaist gods word. And, yes you can help who you are attracted to, it's a choose. Please give me this further proof, that dates back. It still doesn't change the fact that it is wrong.

Feel Free to Respond.....Enjoy.....LOL [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

JULIE [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Lexi A. · 04-27-2004, 06:23 PM

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Originally posted by bugs8476:


And, yes you can help who you are attracted to, it's a choose.

Oh my. I'm trying my best to stay calm here, but this statement I've quoted is something I've seen all over the thread. Please tell me how you have control over who you're attracted to? Unless you've never really been attracted to someone or if you've never been in love, I don't see how you could think that. You're heterosexual...did you wake up one morning and say 'hmm, I think I'll be attracted to boys...'?

Brooklyn's babe · 04-27-2004, 07:01 PM

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Originally posted by bugs8476:
It is breaking "Gods Laws". My child will know that homosexualitiy is wrong. If my child choose to do so, which is caused by "free will", I would have to outcast him because I don't want anything to do with something that is wrong and and is breaking the words of god. Homosexuality is wrong and I don't agree with it. As far as this goes, will see what happens.

JULIE...... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

*Gets on soap box*
Before I begin, let me just say that I'm a Christian, who's very secure in my faith.
Now that that's done. Everyday we break God's Law. I have always been taught that all sins are equal. I have also been taught that all sins are forgivable with the exception of one. That one cardnial sin is not excepting Jesus as your personal Savior, and the reasoning being that it's kind of hard for someone to forgive you if you don't believe they can, or you won't let them. My point is that, yeah, homosexuality is wrong, but so is wearing a shirt that's a poly/cotton blend, or not respecting the government or those in it.
As to you wanting to outcast your child if they turned out to be a homosexual, simply because you "don't want anything to do with something that is wrong and and is breaking the words of god." Then I guess you'll have to become a hermit on some unclaimed island. People sin, we aren't perfect, someone's already pointed this out. Sin is wrong. And because we aren't perfect, we break the Word of God everyday. Plus how are you going to spread the word of God to the unchurched if you refuse to have "anything to do with something that is wrong and and is breaking the words of god."
*Gets off of Soap Box*
Oh, from a legal standpoint, I think homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals.
~Dayna

pinx · 04-27-2004, 07:05 PM

Lexi A...it's good to know that I'm not the only person that believes that homosexuality is not a choice.

I never choosed to be straight, by body recognized that I was attracted to men because those are the hormones and genes and feelings I was born with. If you tell me you reached a moment of clarity in your life where you said to yourself, "I've weighed the options and I've decided to be heterosexual" then I'll reconsider.

The only way that the excuse, it's against "God's" will, will work with me is if every single person in the world shared the same God, and that there was proof that God exists. For as much evidence as you have that there is a God, there is also agurable evidence that there is no God. However farfetched it may seem, we one day might wake up to discover that the masses have been mislead (it's been known to happen) and that there is no God. Then what? But that really isn't the point. I believe in God, but I also believe that God has been mispoken for, mispresented and misinturpreted. God's "words" and the Bible not only contradict themselves, but have been used and twisted to suit different beliefs and to support different causes. Anyone could find a passage to support any type of cause. Religion has led many a man misguidly down the wrong path, and I believe that to be the case here.

Straight people say you cannot choose who you fall in love with, so why is it that you can choose who you are attracted to? And if it was a choice, a lot less people would be gay because of all this crap they have to go through with lots of disapproving people prejudging them.

School is a place that is supposed to help you prepare for the real world, that is why we are there. Not just academically, but socially as well. This is why we have clubs and sports and functions like dances, to help us interact with other people and to better our skills at socializing and communicating. Going along with this practical life preparation, comes Health class. Since we are at a stage in our lives where our bodies or changing, we are feeling things we've never felt before, and we are in new situations with new pressures, we're given a course to help us better prepare for the adult world. Health class is supposed to be blunt, because beating around the bush (like not talking about oral sex because it is vulgar or something similar) can lead to dangerous consequences (like STD's). It is not there for you to pick and choose what you learn about. Health class is supposed to expose you to all the different things your life may bring you as well as show you how other people live their lives.

Just because you might believe that homosexuality is not natural doesn't mean we shouldn't learn about it. We learned about transsexuals and transvesites not because those are necessarily natural, but because there are people in the world and maybe even our school that choose to live their life that way. Why, as long as you know you don't agree with it, is it so dangerous to understand why people choose to live their lives the way they do? Without understanding there would still be racism, and sexism.

Health class is not supposed to propaganda pushing you to type of lifestyle whether it be to remain abstinent or to become homosexual. The greatest threat to our youth is ignorance, and by not learning about something, we are just further propelling our youth into ignorant adulthood. My classmates might not agree with homosexuality, but it is a part of life and therefore, is included in Health class.

A similar topic was whether or not abortion should be taught in Health class or whether kids should be taught about birth control. Yes these things might not all be related, but there still issues where parents who disagreed with had a problem with it being taught in class and allowing students to make up their own minds about the subject.

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited pinx ]

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited pinx ]

alli balli · 04-27-2004, 07:32 PM

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Originally posted by GrhmLz:

There is no argument for discriminaton against homosexuals on marriage. They have the right to marry just like I do.
[ 04-24-2004: Message edited GrhmLz ]

I thought you said marriage wasn't a right.

Mmm, that's right, you did.

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Originally posted by GrhmLz:


Marriage was never a right.

And uh...how is NOT being allowed to marry "having the right to marry"?

You can write all you want, but you're still not saying much.

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited alli balli ]

GrhmLz · 04-27-2004, 08:24 PM

bugs8476, this post is addressed more to you since you don't support homosexual marriage either. However, everyone else is free to read and respond as well.

I have read this book by David Limbaugh called Persecution: How Liberals are Waging War Against Christianity. Bugs, you may find this book interesting or others who may just be curious even though it won't change your mind on where you stand on this issue. The book covers an array of topics from the practice of Christianity being blocked in public schools, the generally misunderstood phrase of "separation of church and state", and how the Constitution has been undermined by many liberals. However, one of the areas of discussion talks about homosexuality.

****Your concern about Sex-Ed? Well, your concerns may be justified in some instances. That is why I brought the book up. His book describes "the homosexual agenda" and how it is trying to make its way through public education. I guess the presence of "homosexual propaganda" in schools began with a campaign launched by two gay activists named Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill. They had an article published in 1987 which made their agenda very clear. The agenda was to systematically normalize the homosexual culture and then to "demonize" anyone who would obstruct such efforts. Obviously, this can lead to Anti-christian sentiments that preach that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong. The book can give you the details if you decide to read it but essentially this is a summary of what the agenda consisted of:

1) to talk about homosexuals and the homosexal lifestyle as often and as loudly as possible so that exposure would make Homosexuality look normal. Also, to use methods that overcome objections of conservative churches by publicizing support by more modern churches, to raise theological objections to the conservative teachings of the bible.

2) To portray homosexuals as victims and not agressive challengers.

3) By giving protectors of homosexuality a just cause by taking on "anti-discrimination" as there theme because demanding "direct support" for homosexual practices wouldn't work.

4) Make the victimizers look bad through this strategy..."Our goal here is twofold....first to replace the mainstream's self-righteous pride with shame and guilt. Secondly, we intend to make the "anti-gays" look so nasty that average Americans will want nothing to do with these people. Persuding the public should be done by graphic images such as the KKK ranting and raving about through acts of atrocity perpetrated against homosexual individuals.

5) Solicting funds

It may not directly be related to sex-ed but here are other ways it is cleverly being introduced into the school system:

a) California enacted the "Student Safety and Violence Provention Act." This act requires the state education curriculum to enable students to acknowledge homosexual, lesbian, 'transgender' and bisexual historical figures and events. Therefore, a big way that they are introducing this into the public school system is through anti-bullying or anti-harrasment policies.

b)In West Virgina, the Civil Team Right's project promotes in its manual that teachers should wear "a LesBiGay postive" button or "Straight but not narrow" slogan and encouraging students to elimate such traditional phrases as...boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, and use....lover, significant other, or partner. They advocate changing the term "marriage" to "permanent relationship."

c)Minnesota...there are classrooms designed for students to who have questions about sexuality to talk to teachers and teachers can refer students to a prohomosexual consultant or a gay activist group. They are called "safe zones" and these classrooms are marked off with a pink triangle. This is done without parental involvement or consent.

And these are just a couple case examples of what is going on. It has nothing to do with teaching "tolerance" but it is in fact a form of "brainwashing" our kids into believing homosexuality is the norm. And there is alot more information of from this book that persuades me.

Lastly, after reading this book I definitely agree with most of its contents on this matter and other matters that have nothing to do with this specific topic. I firmly believe this is an attack on Christianity and this is being done deliberately. And speaker James Anderson, from GLSEN's (Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network), is quoted as saying "We're going to raise a generation of kids who don't believe the religious right" in a Atlanta Convention in 1999.

GrhmLz · 04-27-2004, 08:47 PM

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Originally posted by alli balli:
And uh...how is NOT being allowed to marry "having the right to marry"?

They do have the INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to decide to marry just like I can, or the guy next store, or like the girl across country. They choose not to marry because they do not like the conditions set forth within the contract. They want to enter into the contract with some one of the same gender instead of with someone of the oppostite gender; therefore, they choose to waive that indivdual right. Another condition of the contract is that it can only be with one other person. So people that want to marry more than one person may waive their individual right to decide to marry because they don't like the conditions set forth by the contract either.

Marriage in and of itself is NOT A RIGHT. It is a CONTRACT set forth by the state with conditions attached. It is not a guaranteed right by the constitution.

Quote:

Originally posted by alli balli:
You can write all that you want, but you're still not saying much

Yeah, And?

Ever hear of that saying "Less is More?"
Well, in this case it isn't. Peace!!!!!

AirBear · 04-27-2004, 08:51 PM

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the practice of Christianity being blocked in public schools

How in the world is the practice of Christianity being blocked in public schools, other than the fact that Christians can no longer force their religion on others?

I'll definitely have to borrow that book from the library, should be an entertaining read.

bugs8476 · 04-27-2004, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lexi A.:


Oh my. I'm trying my best to stay calm here, but this statement I've quoted is something I've seen all over the thread. Please tell me how you have control over who you're attracted to? Unless you've never really been attracted to someone or if you've never been in love, I don't see how you could think that. You're heterosexual...did you wake up one morning and say 'hmm, I think I'll be attracted to boys...'?

It's called "Choice". Supposly u read my post, so why would you ask a question like that. Every one has there own perference of who they are looking for, you choose who your attracted to.
In figure of speaking" I think i did", Its called a choice, the right choice. Thanks for asking.

JULIE [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited bugs8476 ]

bugs8476 · 04-27-2004, 09:30 PM

Oops......hehe

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited bugs8476 ]

migamoo · 04-27-2004, 09:51 PM

Quote:

I don't understand you sometimes when you quote my posts. Its either you don't understand my quotes, or your just reading them how you want to read them.

A key rule to remember is that everything is about perception. If you want to make a point for everyone to understand, make it easy, and make is so your point will not get skewed.

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I feel that "God" will accept a homosexual, if he/she is sorry, and wants forgivenness for their actions.

How can someone be sorry for being gay? And just because someone is gay doesn't mean God wouldn't forgive them if they were a Christian. Jesus died for all sins, not just certain ones exclusively. It's like saying that I'm going to die in two minutes and I'm going to Hell because I didn't ask God to take away my sins/to forgive me, right before I died. We all know that's not going to happen because when someone accepts God/Jesus into their heart, He washes the sin from you that you have committed and will commit. If not, Jesus would have to die all over again every second of everyday. I don't know about you, but I don't think that would be a pleasent experience.

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So, Please don't switch my words around.

I'm sorry if you feel I switched your words around, but from the way you worded your statements, that is what I got out of it.

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Nobody said you said it. I was stating it.

But it was totally irrelavant to my post.

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I am not being hypocritical, you are just not reading my post the way you want to read them.

I'm not reading them the way I want to be? Why would you care about that?

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I'll word it a little bit different for you, so you can understand. I basically was saying that, if it came down to it, that my child would know that homosexuality is wrong, and goes against the word of the lord. I never stated that i wanted them to learn it when they are older. You are just switching my words around again. So please if you don't understand my post, just PM me and ill explain OK. Because your making no sense when your switching the words around.

I shouldn't have to PM you to get a more clearer statement. You should make your statements that you post clear so everyone would be able to understand them. And how can I be switching your words around when you state something and then go against it in another statement? That's being contradictory (hypocritical isn't exactly the right word, and never was)

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What is "YES". Your smart.

That was a rethorical question, it didn't need answering.

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By preaching "God's Laws" to them.

So essentially you are going to think for your children? You are not going to let them come to their own conclusions on any issues at all? Least of all the ones you disagree with?

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My child will know that homosexualitiy is wrong.

See statement above.

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If my child choose to do so, which is caused by "free will", I would have to outcast him because I don't want anything to do with something that is wrong and and is breaking the words of god. Homosexuality is wrong and I don't agree with it. As far as this goes, will see what happens.

1, choose to do what?
2, you're being contradicting yourself again. First you say that you will love them no matter what and not disown (make them an outcast) to saying that you will disown (make them an outcast). Please, choose one, as it is hard to find a valid point in your arguments when you can't decide what you want.

Ashley

migamoo · 04-27-2004, 10:03 PM

Dayna, that is a great post, and very true. I'm glad you posted it because I have to agree 100% with it.

question : this is mostly geared towards those who are against homosexuality. Have you ever been attracted to someone of the same sex? Do you think that would make you gay?

Ashley

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited Fieryangel ]

[ 04-27-2004: Message edited Fieryangel ]

Coren · 04-27-2004, 10:11 PM

Maybe this needs done in bold?

WHICH PASSAGES OF THE BIBLE SAY HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG?

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE BIBLE IS TRUE?

Still waiting..