News & Politics - Right to Bear Arms Discussion #4 - Page 2

quaist · 10-21-2013, 02:35 PM

These stories just keep coming and it seems that nothing's being done to stop that madness...

I just feel so sorry for the kids, society fails them, sort of

**sunnykerr** · 10-21-2013, 07:44 PM

Apparently, the one person who's confirmed dead is a teacher, veteran of two tours in Afghanistan, who tried to intervene.

And I have absolutely nothing to say against those who are calling him a hero.

He is.

I just hope the calling him a hero doesn't take over wondering about how the heck a kid got a gun on campus.

quaist · 10-23-2013, 11:01 AM

Strangely, when it comes to gun control, the focus seems always to be more on the symptoms rather than the actual illness.

(Of course, I don't want to disparage that man's courage and brave act in any way.)

**sunnykerr** · 10-29-2013, 10:12 AM

I don't think anything any of us could say would diminish the incredibly bravery of that man in stopping the shooting.

His actions stand on their own.

I do think there is a mental illness problematic. I think it needs to be addressed.

But I also believe it would be naive to wait until the world was perfect before considering reducing access to dangerous weapons.

It's just my opinion, of course.

quaist · 10-30-2013, 03:37 AM

In my opinion it comes down to the simple fact that it's always better to reduce two major contributing factors of gun violence if you can, as opposed to only reducing one of them.

**sunnykerr** · 10-30-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Man captured in connection with 5 deaths -- including his mother, aunt -- near Dallas

(CNN) -- Charles Everett Brownlow Jr.'s mother is dead. So is his aunt. The same goes for two of his acquaintances, plus a convenience store worker in his hometown of Terrell, Texas, some 30 miles east of Dallas.

Yet rather than preparing for their funerals, Brownlow is likely planning his defense -- from jail.

All five of the deceased died violently, found over a busy and bloody six-hour stretch Monday night within miles of each other in Terrell. As of Tuesday afternoon, the 36-year-old Brownlow faced a single charge of murder, in the death of the Ali's Market worker, the only victim it is believed the suspect did not know. But Terrell police Chief Jody Lay made clear that "additional capital murder charges" are anticipated.

"This is a country community, a rural community," Lay said Tuesday. "People are really close. And this is going to have a really big impact on us."

The chaos began around 5 p.m. Monday with reports of a gunshot victim. Police arrived to find a dead woman -- later determined to be Belinda Walker, Terrell's 55-year-old aunt -- with at least one bullet wound to the head.

About a half hour later, a firefighter noticed that a nearby home was on fire, Lay explained. These flames were quickly extinguished, and authorities found another woman's body. This was Charles Brownlow's house, and the victim was Mary Brownlow, his 61-year-old mother.

Investigators determined the two deaths -- like the victims -- appeared related and issued an alert to law enforcement to look for Charles Brownlow and the white 2002 Ford Focus he was believed to be driving, Lay explained.

As law enforcement looked, more gunshots were reported elsewhere in Terrell, with no one injured and the shooter getting away in a white vehicle.

A report of another shooting came in around 10:30 p.m., where a man and vehicle matching the bulletin had been spotted. Police went in the home and found 33-year-old Jason Wooden and 30-year-old Kelleye Sluder -- both of whom lived there, both now shot dead. Lay said later that "all indications are that (Brownlow) knew those victims," adding only that "they hung out occasionally."

It was a mere 10 minutes later when an off-duty police officer spotted the Ford Focus and, after closer examination, the suspect inside Ali's Market. Later, 22-year-old worker Luis Gerardo Leal-Carillo was found slain there.

A high-speed pursuit followed, ending in a dead-end. The suspect stopped his car, got out, then fled -- shielded by heavy brush and the dark night sky.

Authorities stopped chasing him about 150 feet in, instead setting up a wide perimeter and calling in a state Department of Public Safety helicopter. That helicopter's crew and officers on the ground ultimately located Brownlow hiding in a creek around 1:30 a.m. Tuesday and took him into custody "without incident." Only one weapon was involved in the crimes, said Lay, who did not describe it.

Hours later, disbelief, disgust and sadness permeated Terrell.

An emotional Ali Karimi, the owner of Ali's Market, told CNN affiliate WFAA that he and the world had "lost a good, honest, caring individual" in Leal-Carillo.

"I loved him as a person," Karimi said of his slain employee. "I loved him like a son."

And Terrence Walker, who identified himself as the suspect's brother, told WFAA that he was at a "total loss" to explain what happened -- including to their mother, Mary Brownlow, whom Walker described as "so quiet and good."

"I'm devastated," Walker told the station. "... I'm in a daze."

Charles Brownlow was in police custody Tuesday facing one count of evading arrest in a vehicle in addition to the murder charge. His listed address is the home that was burned down. It was not known who will represent him in court; CNN's call to the Kaufman County public defender's office on Tuesday was not immediately returned.

A public records search indicated Brownlow previously had been convicted on theft, burglary, weapons, assault of a family member and marijuana possession and other charges, though nothing close to this scale.

So how do authorities explain this week's bloodshed? Lay said that authorities have "several theories that we're working," though he wouldn't go further than that.

And asked about Brownlow's condition at the time of the arrest, the police chief said he did "appear to be intoxicated on some sort of substance, (but) at this point we don't have a real good idea exactly what that is."

As horrific as the events were, Lay said that it might have even worse had the off-duty officer not spotted the suspect at the Terrell market.

"All I can say is, I think that had the police officer not intervened," Lay said, "I was very concerned that we would have additional situations that we would have to had to deal with that night."

See, we could go on at lenght about the fact that this man may have been stoned off his mind, but the fact remains that he should never have been able to get his hands on a weapon.

It should be like pedophiles. There should be a perimeter you have to observe around weapons once you've been convicted of serious crimes.

**sunnykerr** · 11-01-2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

One person killed in Los Angeles airport shooting

One person has died and seven people were wounded, one critically, during a shooting at Los Angeles International Airport, officials say.

The Transportation Security Administration said a number of its employees were injured, one fatally.

The suspect - named by the FBI as 23-year-old Los Angeles resident Paul Anthony Ciancia - was wounded by police and detained.

Flights in and out of the busy airport were temporarily halted.

LA Airport police chief Patrick Gannon told reporters a "lone shooter" came into Terminal 3 at 9:20 local time.

'Assault rifle'

The suspect "pulled an assault rifle out of a bag and began to open fire in the terminal", he said.

He then allegedly went to a security screening area and continued shooting.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) issued a statement reporting "multiple Transportation Security Officers were shot, one fatally".

It was the first time a TSA officer was killed in the line of duty, according to Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti.

Mr Garcetti said it was fortunate that the authorities had tackled the suspect because he had been armed with more than 100 rounds of ammunition.

Little is known about the alleged gunman.

'Suicide text'

Mr Ciancia's family in New Jersey told police on Friday they had received a text message from him saying he planned suicide, report US media.

"Their younger child got a text message from Paul [Ciancia] stating that there were some comments in there about his wellbeing and he wanted to possibly take his own life," a New Jersey police chief, Allen Cummings, told ABC News.

California congresswoman Loretta Sanchez told CNN that it is "likely" the suspect had been aiming at TSA officers.

He was not a TSA employee, she added, contradicting US media reports suggesting he may have had links to the agency.

A local hospital official told reporters that one of the injured was listed in a critical condition, while two other victims were listed in fair condition.

The Federal Aviation Administration barred all flights from landing at the airport during the incident, and outbound flights were delayed.

Mayor Garcetti said outbound flights had resumed in areas other than Terminal 3.

President Barack Obama expressed concern about the shooting, but said he would leave law enforcement to talk about it.

Well, people can claim mental illness was to blame all they want, there remains the tiny issue of how the heck he got to the freaking terminal with an assault riffle and that many rounds of ammunition.

I just travelled to and from the United States. I had to throw away my bottle of water, take off my shoes and my belt, and my mother was questioned repeatedly about the medical device she wears when travelling to reduce her level of back pain.

And neither one of us minded. We get it.

But what's the point if an assault riffle gets through?

Barstool Prophet · 11-02-2013, 07:08 PM

Why anyone has access outside of the military to an assault riffle is beyond me.

**sunnykerr** · 11-02-2013, 08:18 PM

Why anyone in the military would need an assault riffle outside of a training situation or a warzone is beyond me as well.

**sunnykerr** · 11-06-2013, 07:05 PM

Quote:

LAX shooting: FBI investigating suspect's ties to NWO conspiracy theory

Paul Ciancia's phone to be searched for materials reflecting 'views on the legitimacy or activities of the US government'

Federal agents are investigating the possible ties of a suspect in the fatal shooting at Los Angeles International Airport to a widely circulated conspiracy theory that the US government is preparing to establish a totalitarian state.

The FBI got a warrant Monday to search the cellphone of alleged gunman Paul Ciancia for materials reflecting his "views on the legitimacy or activities of the United States government, including the existence of a plot to impose a New World Order," according to court documents.

Ciancia, a 23-year-old unemployed motorcycle mechanic, got a ride to LAX on Friday morning with a roommate, walked into the airport and began targeting Transportation Security Administration officers, authorities said.

By the time LAX police officers subdued him with several gunshots, one TSA officer had been killed and two others injured.

Ciancia's family has offered sympathy to the family of slain TSA screener Gerardo I Hernandez. In a brief statement read by a family attorney in Ciancia's hometown of in Pennsville, NJ, family members also expressed shock at the rampage and hope for the recovery of the surviving victims.

One of those officers, Tony Grigsby, spoke for the first time publicly, saying he was trying to help an elderly man get to safety when the gunman shot him in the right foot. He hobbled with a cane outside his South Los Angeles home, where he fought back tears recalling Hernandez as a wonderful person who will be missed.

"Only now it has hit me that I will never see him again," Grigsby said.

Co-workers, friends and others gathered Monday night for a tribute to Hernandez at a beach near the airport.

"He was loved," Jose Araujo, one of hundreds of people who gathered at Dockweiler State Beach, told KNBC-TV. "He's going to be missed and he's never going to be forgotten."

The other wounded TSA officer has been released from the hospital, the agency said, and the condition of high school teacher Brian Ludmer, who was shot in the calf, was upgraded from fair to good.

Why airport security officers apparently came to personify oppression remained unclear.

The assault rifle used in the attack and a handwritten note found in a bag had TSA inspection stickers on them, according to a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation who wasn't authorized to speak publicly and requested anonymity.

The rant spoke of how TSA searches were a violation of constitutional rights and a vulgar term was used to refer to Janet Napolitano, the former secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees TSA.

The screed also mentioned the "NWO," an apparent reference to the new world order belief that holds an international cabal of elites is planning to take away the guns and personal freedoms of Americans. Perceived masterminds behind the conspiracy have shifted over several generations, among them bankers, communists and the government itself.

The TSA does not regularly feature as a target of the theory's ire, according to Mark Potok, who has studied extremist groups for the Southern Poverty Law Center. More typically, believers focus on another homeland security agency, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which according to the theory plans to build camps to detain resisters to the new order, Potok said.

Potok said he has seen no evidence that Ciancia was personally involved in hate groups.

Ciancia remained in critical condition and any court appearance on charges of first-degree murder of a federal officer and committing violence at an international airport will depend on when his doctors say he's ready, FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller said.

I'm not even sure what to say about possible connections between conspiracy theorists who believe the world is being taken over and gun laws.

It's a new wrinkle to the problem for me, for sure.

**sunnykerr** · 11-12-2013, 07:56 PM

The final conclusion on a story we had, I believe, discussed at the time:

Quote:

Renisha McBride, 19, was shot in face by Detroit homeowner

A black woman whose fatal shooting by a US homeowner has prompted claims of racial profiling was shot in the face, a post-mortem examination found.

Renisha McBride, 19, received fatal injuries on the front porch of a home in Detroit, Michigan, on 2 November.

Her family says she was disoriented and looking for help after having just been involved in a car crash nearby.

The homeowner said he had feared a burglary, but civil rights leaders are demanding justice.

Prosecutors say they are reviewing whether to charge the unidentified 54-year-old, who told police he fired his shotgun accidentally.

Stand your ground law

A lawyer for the man said he was "torn up" by McBride's death, but that he had feared for his life at the time.

Michigan is one of several US states with a so-called stand your ground law, which allows the use of deadly force if a person feels their life is in danger, though it is unclear whether that will be argued in this case.

A post-mortem examination report released on Monday confirmed that McBride had been shot in the face, but not at close range.

The Wayne County medical examiner's office report has ruled her death a homicide.

She was shot as she stood on the porch in the predominantly white Dearborn Heights area shortly before 04:00 local time (09:00 GMT) on Saturday 2 November.

The Detroit Free Press reported that a car registered to McBride's family had been involved in a collision with a parked vehicle just over two hours before the shooting, a few streets away.

It is unclear what happened in the intervening time.

McBride's relatives have called for a thorough investigation into the shooting.

"It's hard to... believe it's an accident when a gun is in her face and the trigger is pulled," family lawyer Gerald Thurswell told the Detroit News on Friday.

The case has attracted the attention of civil rights leader the Reverend Al Sharpton, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and Michigan congressman John Conyers.

On Saturday, about 200 people showed up at a rally organised by Mr Sharpton's National Action Network.

The guy who shot her said both that his weapon accidentally discharged itself and that he had feared for his life.

Which is it?

Because, I'm obviously not gun expert, but it seems to me like shooting someone in the face at more or less point-blank range (I mean, how far are you to the person at your door when you open it?) requires quire a lot of skill or an incredible amount of dumb "luck."

He feels bad about it?

Well, he should. That girl was coming to him for help and he finished her off. He should feel terrible.

**sunnykerr** · 11-17-2013, 02:17 PM

^ An update on that story:

Quote:

Theodore Wafer charged in Detroit death of Renisha McBride

A Detroit homeowner has been charged with murder in the shooting death of a black teenager on his front porch.

Theodore Wafer, 54, shot Renisha McBride, 19, in the face on 2 November.

Ms McBride's family says she was disoriented and seeking help after a car crash. She was drunk at the time of her death, a post-mortem showed.

Mr Wafer has said he feared she was breaking into his home, but that he shot her by accident. The case has sparked racial tension.

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said on Friday she would charge him with second-degree murder and manslaughter, as well as with possession of a firearm during the attempted commission of a felony.

Ms Worthy said Ms McBride was shot in the face after she approached Mr Wafer's home for help.

Stand your ground

Evidence shows the teen knocked on the locked screen door and there was no indication of forced entry, she said.

"These are the appropriate charges and he did not act in lawful self-defence,'' Ms Worthy said.

Mr Wafer was arraigned in a Michigan court on Friday.

A toxicology report on Ms McBride released on Thursday indicated she had a blood alcohol level of 0.218%, well above the state's drink-driving limit.

She was also found to have marijuana in her body, although it was not clear she had used the drug the day of her death.

A lawyer for Mr Wafer has said his client was "torn up" by Ms McBride's death, but that he had feared for his life at the time.

The Detroit branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People applauded the charges in a statement.

"Often, many of us are very anxious and impatient when it comes to justice being equally applied in every situation," the group said.

"This particular case had the appearance that it might have been headed down the same road. While no trial has been held, and Mr Wafer has yet to be brought before the court, anxiety is still high as the jury is still a long way out."

Michigan is one of several US states with a so-called stand your ground law, which allows the use of deadly force if a person feels his or her life is in danger, though it is unclear whether that will be argued in this case.

She was shot as she stood on the porch in the predominantly white Dearborn Heights area shortly before 04:00 local time (09:00 GMT) on Saturday 2 November.

The Detroit Free Press reported that a car registered to Ms McBride's family had crashed into a parked vehicle about two hours before the shooting, a few streets away.

It is unclear what happened in the intervening time.

The case has attracted the attention of civil rights leader the Reverend Al Sharpton and Michigan congressman John Conyers.

I agree with these charges, I must say.

**sunnykerr** · 11-22-2013, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Supreme Court to hear Quebec appeal in gun-registry case

OTTAWA -- The Supreme Court of Canada has given the Quebec government one last chance to preserve provincial data from the otherwise defunct federal long-gun registry.

The high court has ruled that it will hear a Quebec government appeal in the long-running saga.

Quebec turned to the Supreme Court to hear the case after losing at the Quebec Court of Appeal this past summer.

As usual, the justices gave no reasons for deciding to hear the appeal.

The province wants to force Ottawa to keep data related to the federal long-gun registry and wants police forces to continue to have access to the information.

Opponents of the registry, which was scrapped by an act of Parliament in 2012, say it is wasteful, intrusive and irrelevant in stopping crime, while some police organizations call it a valuable law-enforcement tool.

Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney said in a release that the Conservative government "will vigorously defend our legislation, adopted by Parliament, in front of the Supreme Court."

"We will continue to bring forward measures to keep our streets and communities safe, and to respect hunters, farmers and sport shooters," said Blaney.

Quebec Justice Minister Bertrand St-Arnaud said the decision by the country's top court to hear the case is good news, noting that there's a consensus in the province to maintain the registry.

Quebec's government has argued that the data, long since paid for, should be preserved to form the basis for its own registry -- rather than having the province start from scratch with a new registry at great cost to taxpayers.

"We're very, very happy that this case, which is important for us, important for Quebecers, which was the object of eight unanimous motions in the national assembly, will be heard in the coming months by the Supreme Court of Canada," St. Arnaud said in Quebec City.

"It's good news for all Quebecers."

The Quebec justice minister said he hopes the case will be pleaded in 2014, but added that it could take a year between the pleading of the case and when a final judgment is rendered.

Public Security Minister Stephane Bergeron added that Quebec is the only jurisdiction in Canada where the registry of weapons and data continues to be collected.

"For the moment, we're satisfied with the situation and we're preparing for the eventual creation of a Quebec arms registry," he said.

The Coalition for Gun Control, formed after 14 women were gunned down at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique in December 1989, also held out hope the Supreme Court will eventually preserve the Quebec registry data.

"The decision of the court reaffirms the fact that there is public interest in studying Quebec's request for an appeal on the decision to destroy the records on 1.6 million rifles and shotguns registered in Quebec," coalition president Wendy Cukier said in a release.

Ottawa confirmed last November that it had successfully destroyed the data on more than five million individual rifles and shotguns from all provinces and territories -- with the exception of Quebec.

At the time, the Canadian Sports Shooting Association told its membership to "rest assured, we are the envy of international firearms advocates everywhere" because Canada is almost alone internationally in rolling back gun control laws.

For me, it's like this.

Our tax dollars were spent assembling this registry. Getting rid of it will also involve more of our tax dollars.

So, since every single law-enforcement agency in Quebec says they use it every day, we should get to keep it.

**sunnykerr** · 11-26-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Warrant shows Zimmerman had 5 guns when arrested in domestic case

SANFORD, Fla. -- The former neighbourhood watchman involved in a high-profile shooting of an unarmed black teen had five guns and more than 100 rounds of ammunition with him when deputies arrested him earlier this month on domestic violence charges, according to court documents released Tuesday.

A search warrant made public by the Seminole County court clerk shows that George Zimmerman had a 12-gauge shotgun, an AR-15 assault rifle and three handguns when he was arrested Nov. 18 at his girlfriend's house. The girlfriend, Samantha Scheibe, told deputies that Zimmerman pointed a shotgun at her during an argument and also used it to smash her coffee table.

Zimmerman is free on $9,000 bail on charges of aggravated assault, battery and criminal mischief. He has entered a written plea of not guilty.

Zimmerman, 30, was acquitted of murder in July in the shooting of 17-year-old African-American Trayvon Martin during a confrontation in the community where Zimmerman was a neighbourhood watch volunteer. The shooting sparked accusations that Zimmerman had targeted the unarmed Martin because of his race. It led to nationwide debates over race and so-called stand your ground self-defence laws that protect gun owners.

Scheibe told deputies she asked Zimmerman to leave the house they were sharing during an argument. Scheibe said in an arrest report that he began packing his belongings, including some of the weapons, but became upset and took the shotgun out of the case.

According to the search warrant, Scheibe said she was going to call police. That's when Zimmerman pointed the shotgun at her and asked if "she really wanted to do that," the warrant says. Scheibe said Zimmerman pushed her out of the house while she was calling police and locked the door, barricading it with furniture and other items.

The search warrant says Zimmerman told deputies a different version of events. He said that Scheibe and he had agreed to separate and that he was planning to move to Texas. But as he gathered his belongings, Zimmerman said Scheibe became upset and threw a handgun and the shotgun on the floor.

The weapons were locked in a soft-sided case with a combination lock when deputies arrived, according to the warrant. In addition to the shotgun and AR-15 rifle, the warrant says Zimmerman had three handguns: a Glock 19, a Taurus 9mm and an Interarms .380-calibre. Deputies also collected two cellphones, a pocket knife and a flashlight, among other items.

The arrest in the domestic violence case was just the latest brush with the law for Zimmerman.

He and his estranged wife, Shellie, were involved in a domestic dispute in September just days after she filed divorce papers, but police later said no charges were filed against either of them because of a lack of evidence.

In what scenario is it legal for that man to own weapons?

Okay, his killing of Trayvon Martin was found to not be homicide in accordance to the Florida criminal code.

But Mr Zimmerman is clearly unbalanced. That's three women now that he's threatened, two of whom while holding a weapon.

I don't know what's wrong with him (I have an idea, but I'm neither a professional nor someone who trusts their opinion of a person they've never met), but it seems clear that he likes to intimidate those he feels have less power than him, or should have less power than him (in his estimation).

He's already killed someone. How many does he need to kill before something is done about this?

**sunnykerr** · 12-02-2013, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Teen: Ohio Boy Flashed Gun Before School Standoff

A 14-year-old student flashed a pellet gun inside an Ohio high school, setting off a lockdown and short standoff Monday in a hallway before he was taken into custody and charged, police and a witness said.

The student was kicked out of class and sent to a room for students serving in-school suspensions, where he told a school police officer that he had a gun and pulled it partly out his book bag, said Kayla Williams, a student inside the room.

"We ran out screaming," said Williams, who was standing just feet away from the boy, who suffered minor injuries after officers fired a bean bag round at his feet to end the standoff. No one else was hurt, police said.

The boy was being held at a juvenile jail and was charged as a juvenile with making terroristic threats and illegal conveyance of a dangerous ordnance. The Associated Press is not naming the suspect because of his age.

The pellet gun looked like a real handgun, Toledo police spokesman Lt. Mark King said. The teen was taken into custody after he was isolated in a hallway.

Negotiators talked to the boy during the standoff, but officials said he didn't give a reason for bringing the pellet gun to Scott High School, which sits just outside downtown Toledo.

The boy was holding the gun but never pointed it at police during the standoff, King said

Williams, 16, said the boy was yelling and cursing when he came into the room for students who are serving short-term suspensions for breaking school rules.

A teacher suggested the boy leave school and come back tomorrow, but he refused, she said. The school's principal also came in and told the boy to leave before she called for a police officer, Williams said.

"He kept saying he wasn't leaving," she said.

The teen told the officer he had a gun and started to pull it out before shoving it back in his bag, Williams said. "It looked real," she said.

A woman outside the school, Loraine Foster of Toledo, said the teen is her nephew. She was there with the boy's mother, who was talking to police.

"That's just not him," said Foster, who didn't give the boy's name. "I don't know what happened."

She said she saw him about a month ago and that he was talking about playing football.

"He's a good, young kid," she said. "I'm glad he came out safe."

Scott High School has about 600 students. The school has armed officers, but no metal detectors.

Guns in school...

Awesome.


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