[TheAngel]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Well, thank you for that. I have to admit that I'm still very confused about that. If you don't know who you're addressing, than how do you know in advance which attitude to take? I mean, I understand how one situation may call for compassion and another for discipline, but if you're trying to interest people in coming to church... how do you know which strategy they'll respond to best? Cristofle Maybe this taps into the whole "saving people through fear" thing?

I think it has to do more with the "An eye for an eye thing." Christians have a tendency to be more conservative. A lot of them are pro-death penalty. But they seem to forget Jesus's teachings that if a man strikes you on one cheek, turn and offer him the other. Instead it's very Old Testament (which adheres and is used more for the Jewish Tradition because it contains the laws of Moses). But it has to do with the argument between abortion and the death penalty. A lot of pro-life people are pro-death penalty. They reconcile this paradox by saying that the baby is innocent while the person on death row is not. Whereas, if they actually followed Jesus's teachings, they should be saying that death is wrong no matter how it occurs and to whom it happens.

[WalaBridget]

So I been reading through this thread and I came across abortion and all and I live in Islamic country and here if lets say there is rape and it resulted into a pregnancy or lets say the baby is ill or something then here and in all Islamic countries its the woman right to have an abortion if they baby lets say is not like 3-4 months along.

[sunnykerr]

The right to abortion is a fundamental cornerstone of fundamental human rights. There can be no social equality without that right.

Now, I fully respect people who don't believe in abortion. I think it raises valid spiritual issues. At least, for me.

But the right should still be enshrined in every legal code. Otherwise, we are telling women that they have no control over their own bodies. And that's wrong.

[WalaBridget]

I think its a choice if you wanna keep it or abort it and I fully respect both options and here adoption is not an option,but in the west there is.

[sunnykerr]

Adoption is not an option? How come?

Of course, adoption being an option should have no bearing on the right to abortion. It's a heck of a thing to ask a person to carry a child to term when they don't want to be pregnant.

[wanderer78]

I agree with that. I don't quite agree with tying the adoption issue into the abortion debate. I think they're two seperate things.

[Cristofle]

Interesting.

Analysis: Pope's message to Muslims might prove risky - CNN.com

This little bit stood out to me:

Among other things, Benedict hopes Christians and Muslims will join forces in defense of shared values such as the sanctity of human life and the family, which can translate into political efforts in opposition to abortion and homosexuality.

I believe very much in Christian-Muslim relations, but I'm somewhat annoyed if that's the Pope's motive behind it. I'm not surprised, but the continuing fixation of the Catholic church on these issues to arguably the exclusion of a lot of others is so frustrating, particularly in the case of homosexuality.

[WalaBridget]

Adoption is not an option? How come?

Here its not,its like 2% of people in the gulf would adopt.In a Muslim country people wait for marriage to have sex so its a sin to get pregnant before.

people here have abortions if the baby is ill and is not far along which their right,I mean what kind of life would you wanna give this child.

[fetch]

What country are you from?
I think there are at least some Muslim countries where abortion is illegal.

And... the Bible is not against abortion. Argggg. This always manages to upset me.

[WalaBridget]

I'm from Bahrain
We are allowed to have one in the cases I mention I mean if the mother life is risk and if the baby is ill or something its ok and the baby has to be like less then 2 months along because some here do not consider it a human.People are not that religious like lets say Saudi Arabia who near to here like 2 hours away poeple there do not even have test before they get married.

[sunnykerr]

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post) I believe very much in Christian-Muslim relations, but I'm somewhat annoyed if that's the Pope's motive behind it. I'm not surprised, but the continuing fixation of the Catholic church on these issues to arguably the exclusion of a lot of others is so frustrating, particularly in the case of homosexuality.

Gah. You and me both. Why can't social evolution stay social evolution? The idea of wishing for progress in one way so as to prevent progress in another is utterly disgusting.

WalaBridget Are you saying that premarital sex is treated as a crime?

Because I found find that rather disturbing. I get that it's perceived as a sin. But people sin. People lie, people cheat, people covet things. It shouldn't be codified into law. At least, I don't think so.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by WalaBridget (View Post) I'm from Bahrain We are allowed to have one in the cases I mention I mean if the mother life is risk and if the baby is ill or something its ok and the baby has to be like less then 2 months along because some here do not consider it a human.People are not that religious like lets say Saudi Arabia who near to here like 2 hours away poeple there do not even have test before they get married.

Hi Wala. So, I'm a little confused - is there some sort of religious reason why a woman is only entitled to an abortion if it is a health issue to the mother? If that's the case, then how can they say that a baby that is 2 months into development isn't considered life at all? Just wondering.

[WalaBridget]

WalaBridget Are you saying that premarital sex is treated as a crime?

You wont go to jail for it here since Bahrain has a similar Law to US when it comes to sex and cheating and adultery,but the Muslim people consider a sin and all,now if you to Saudie Arabia your gonna to jail since they go by Islam.

is there some sort of religious reason why a woman is only entitled to an abortion if it is a health issue to the mother? If that's the case, then how can they say that a baby that is 2 months into development isn't considered life at all? Just wondering.

How can I put this together,in Islam there are modern like religious men who go deep into explaining Quran ( The Islam book like the Bible and Torah) Anyway so they said from the book there that its ok to have one before 2 month because its not a human yet.Islam is complicated because you will find a modern Shia and Suni who agree with abortion and you will see traditional people who refuse to go by it.For example my cousin has an abortion because the baby was already ill and wont live years ago.

[sunnykerr]

Well, thank you for your explanations. They're very much appreciated.

[wanderer78]

It's interesting to see how different religions see things.