News & Politics - Religious Controversy at Calif School

mh67511 · 11-25-2004, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School
Wed Nov 24, 2004 04:12 PM ET
By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.

Phyllis Vogel, assistant superintendent for Cupertino Unified School District, said the lawsuit had been forwarded to a staff attorney. She declined to comment further.

Williams asserts in the lawsuit that since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.

Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."

"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a California atheist who wanted the words "under God" struck from the Pledge of Allegiance as recited by school children. The appeals court in California had found that the phrase amounted to a violation of church and state separation.

Unbelievable.

Is this really the United States they are talking about?

California_ here_ I _come · 11-25-2004, 04:57 AM

*Shakes Head* We were just discussing that in church tonight. So sad. It's the Decleration 4 goodness sakes. A part of history. Get a life, & have some respect. Poor teacher.

SweetLisaLisa · 11-25-2004, 06:20 AM

Whether you believe in God or not, the Declaration of Independence is a part of history. And if you want to learn about it you're gonna have to deal with the fact that they put God in it. Doesn't mean you gotta believe in God. But the writing of it and the reason it was reason is part of history.

In Fair Verona · 11-25-2004, 07:15 AM

You can study the declaration of independence while still looking at it from an objective point of view. I'm in US History right now and we did that. Whether it says "god" or not makes no difference. Are they going to ban students from learning about Jesus in World History, because he did exist, and he was a part of a major historical movement, not just religious. The DoI is a historical document, not a religious one. Gah. These people. Obviously their opinions are not very strong if they actually believe that this will make God impressionable upon students.

ceilirose · 11-25-2004, 10:17 AM

This is all a bit murky. The teacher was banned from handing out supplemental papers about the DoI not the actual document itself. The title of this thead isn't really accurate either.

Here is a link from a local paper about the situation -

http://www.sanmateocountytimes.com/S...556644,00.html

The supplemental papers have references to God being the Supreme Judge in relation to the DoI.

There's more to this story than just the wire report IMO. We've only just heard from the teacher himself and not the school system. The fact that he's represented by such a right wing Christian group is reason to wait for both sides of the story to come out.

alli balli · 11-25-2004, 03:07 PM

According to the article that ceilirose linked, this is what he was handing out:

Quote:

- Excerpts from the Declaration of Independence with references to "God,'' "Creator,'' and "Supreme Judge.''

-"George Washington's Prayer Journal.''

-"he Rights of the Colonists,'' by Samuel Adams, which includes passages excluding Roman Catholics from religious tolerance because of their "doctrines subversive of the civil government under which they live.''

- George W. Bush's presidential 2004 Day of Prayer proclamation, with a supplemental handout on the history of the National Day of Prayer.

- Several excerpts from John Adam's diary, including the July 26, 1796 passage, "Cloudy ... The Christian religion is above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the black guard Paine say what he will; it is resignation to God, it is goodness itself to man.''

Now. I think the Declaration of Independence should be taught. And what mh67511 posted is very misleading IMO, because it implies that they're outright banning the Declaration of Independence. What I get from the more detailed article is that he is singling out specific passages from various sources that refer to Christianity, and IMO that is wrong. The kids are only what, 10 years old in 5th grade? And he's making them read about "subversive Roman Catholic doctrines" and that "Christianity is above all the religions that ever prevailed."

I mean, is it really necessary for them to read Washington's prayer journal? I have never encountered any of this in 13 years of public schooling and I'm not lacking any understanding of the country's founding. What's wrong with giving them the entire DoI?

California_ here_ I _come · 11-25-2004, 04:02 PM

Nothing wrong w/handing out the DOI. It's a part of history. He shouldn't get in trouble 4 doing that. And I understand your point about the prayer journals, but I don't find it wrong. And this is why...

Every year in World History they teach about diff. religions. Muslims, Buddists, Catholics, Shintos, etc...If they can hand out stuff & teach about those religions then they should be able to hand out Christian papers & stuff too.

ceilirose · 11-25-2004, 04:23 PM

The problem is (if I'm reading this correctly) is that he didn't hand out the DoI in it's entirety. He handed out excerpts of the document that refered to Christianity.

Also a document which talks about Roman Catholics being subversive doesn't have any place in a 5th grade public school classroom. That's not fair to the Catholics in the class and it's not fair to their tax paying parents either. They're paying this teacher's salary.

California_ here_ I _come · 11-25-2004, 06:32 PM

Well, if a document like that has no place in a 5th grade classroom. Or any school for that matter. Then no documents discussing Muslims or Buddhists should be allowed either. They shouldn't single out which religions can be talked about in school. It should be all, or nothing.

alli balli · 11-25-2004, 06:43 PM

Okay, first, he's not teaching a World Cultures class. He's teaching an American History class to 5th graders.

And he's not teaching about Christianity. What he's doing is teaching about all the various places it pops up in US history, and handing out materials to the kids that say it is the "best" religion of all, and that "God is the Supreme Juror." There is a big difference between teaching about what Christianity is (which is not what he should be doing anyway; that's for a World Cultures class), and teaching people that it is the right way to think.

California_ here_ I _come · 11-25-2004, 06:53 PM

I didn't realize he was doing that. My mistake. I do still feel that they discriminate against Christianity more than any other religion in schools. I mean, I'm in World History at the moment. We spent 2 weeks on the Muslim & Buddist religion. Yet, we only spent 5 days on Christianity. And my teacher would allow us to have class discussions about Muslim religion & everything, but when myself or somene else started to discuss Chrisianity, when we were learning about it, he made us stop b/c he said we might offend someone.

SuperDeluxe · 11-25-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mh67511
Unbelievable. Is this really the United States they are talking about?

I am all for separation of church and state.

But damnit, the Declaration of Independance is a historical document that ties in directly with the formation and creation of this country

Stupid stupid.

ceilirose · 11-25-2004, 07:14 PM

One of the documents is promoting the Christian religion over the others. That's not allowed in a public school. If a document promoted the Muslim or Buddhist religion over others it would be the same situation. You can talk about the existence of religions but you can't have a public school teacher saying one is better than another. Like alli balli said - it's a US History class..not a World Culture or World Religion class.

California_ here_ I _come · 11-25-2004, 07:18 PM

Oh, I know that. I was stating that they shouldn't put one religion over others in school. But yet they do it. They always put everything above Christianity in schools. So maybe the teacher was just trying to make a point.

mh67511 · 11-26-2004, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alli balli
[B] And what mh67511 posted is very misleading IMO, because it implies that they're outright banning the Declaration of Independence.

Uh I just copied and pasted the title of the article. I'm not misleading anyone.


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