JW77

From USATODAY.com

This is only part of the article...

Milt Palacio

Two words: the war. No wartime president has ever lost.

Take away the war, and the emperor has no clothes.

The whole "values" thing is crap. Democrats have much better values than the Republicans. The Republicans value corporations and the wealthy, the Democrats value people and their well-being. Abortions were at a 24-year low at the end of Bill Clinton's second term, under Bush they have gone up every year. Gay marriage was a scare tactic to get religious people out to vote.

Lexis

Values is a floating concept - a Republican would probably argue they want to protect lives and marriage, create a meritocratic society by not propping up the weak.

Now I don't agree with those values, or at least the way they think they're going to promote them.

What bugs me so much is the sense of moral superiority - I was talking to a conservative the other day and he basically said that because I wasn't religious then my views meant nothing as I was holding myself to my own standards which I could change at any time. Oh, he also compared me to a Hitler - Castro hybrid.

Nice, huh?

JW77

I don't really know that Democrats have better values than Republicans. All you have to do is look at some of the things Clinton did when he was President to see why I would say that. The DoMA, welfare reform, and the Counter-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (which seems to have paved the way for the things like the Patriot Act) all took place under a Democratic administration. And none of those things really lead me to believe that the Democrats are any better when it comes to values.

I do agree with the part about the gay marriage issue being a scare tactic. I think it goes beyond religious issues though. I also believe that the abortion issue was a scare tactic used by the Democrats.

JW77

Yeah, really nice. Did you punch him in the head?

Anyway, I agree with the moral superiority thing, but I don't believe that it's unique to either side.

Sir Fireboard

Well that sounds...sane I guess they weren't 'intelligent' enough to lie and create a scapegoat that could be destroyed. So lying and murder are now values? Huh.Oh geez. Once again, making things up is not 'urgently dealing' at all. If anything the US has made itself even more enemies. For what? Some pretty oil?

TokyoNiGHTS

I think Republicans play the moral superiority card more since to them morals are based on your religion and if you don't follow everything your religion says word for word your morals aren't right. If you aren't against gay marriage, your morals aren't as good as their, if you're for abortion, your morals aren't as good.

To me, just as I don't want anything to do with a religion that tells me to treat people differently because of who they might be attracted to, I don't want anything with a set of morals that does the same. If that's what "morals" are then I don't have them and i'm happy that I don't.

Lexis

LOL, almost. I swear to God, my mouth just dropped. I didn't think people like that existed in real life - my friend who was with me was just waiting for me to go off on one.

I'm sure there are some morally superior Democrats but I believe the GOP has made it an art form (general terms obviously). Anything that doesn't fit with their idelogy is somehow wrong or strange.

I read this article by a British journalist at the convention in NY. He was talking to this woman who worked for Wal-Mart and when he asked her why she disliked Kerry, it basically boiled down to "He's too liberal and he speaks French."

Not. Even. Kidding. And then she said something about him wanting communism and about how he probably spoke Chinese too.

Milt Palacio

I don't totally disagree with you on Clinton. Democrats disagree with many of Clinton's policies. Some of his policies were almost Republican in nature.

While he did some great things for the economy and diplomacy, he also had some bad policies such as NAFTA and the media consolidation act (which paved the way for more media outlets being controlled by one company).

Clinton was a centrist. I would like to see a real reform Democrat as president. I think true Democrats have much better values than Republicans.

SuperDeluxe

Obviouslly democrats are going to feel that they have more values than republicans and vice versa. This is not a new thing.

Clinton wasnt a far left wing president..he was more of a moderate..but he was still a liberal.

I think that is the only way you are going to win..you have to be moderate..or you are going to piss off everyone.

Lexis

Labour did that in the 90's - moved from the left to the middle in order to become electable. They put a media friendly, "plays well at the box office" candidate up (Blair) instead of a real Labour candidate and won the election.

Cut to 2005 - we now have a plethora of Right Wing parties, one centrist party (Labour), one slightly left of centre party and some radical left parties.

For somebody like me who is liberal but not the Marxist end of that group, I feel I don't have a party that truly represents me.

If the Democrats move to the centre, thats going to piss a lot of people off from the left. They may then vote for a Nader or a Cobb. And winning moderate Republicans seems to be an uphill battle when they voted for Bush who is pretty far to the right.

Sir Fireboard

There are no words. She not only has no clue, but she's totally racist as well. Great combination there.

alli balli

The article didn't mention anything new. We already knew that some people were scared of ditching their "fearless leader" in the middle of war, and that some people were so fixated on the gay community that its their duty to eradicate them from the face of the earth.

TheAngel

I'd like to see you define values. You're playing some type of childish game. Democrats and Republicans fighting over who has the better values, I oficially hate the fact that our country has become so divided over the mere lines of political parties. Values are not universal, they are extremely subjective. You can't say that someone has more values or better values that anyone else. The issue of homosexual marriage was brought forward, the majority of the people that normally vote are religious, especially in the US, and there are numerous religions that do not agree with homosexual marriage, therefore that bought Bush some of the vote. Also, there is a lot of unjustified fear in the American community, although, some of it is justified. That played a role as well. Perhaps you should stop playing "pin the blame on the party" and look at the facts objectivly.

TokyoNiGHTS

Never underestimate the unnecessary hatred some Americans have gathered up toward the French as of late.