News & Politics - Real ID Act edges closer to passage

mh67511 · 05-08-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Real ID Act edges closer to passage

SILVER SPRING, Md. — Claire Machlin expected a long line when she and her husband, Irving, arrived at the state driver's license office here around lunchtime Thursday. But she was in and out, eyes tested and photograph taken, in a few minutes.

"It was excellent ... no waiting, which amazed us," Machlin, 79, said as she left the Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration's express office in a shopping center in this suburb just north of Washington, D.C.

Maryland and state governments nationwide have tried for years to make it more convenient for drivers to get and renew licenses at local motor vehicle offices. They have allowed renewals by mail, opened satellite and express offices and put some services, such as vehicle registration, online.

Now, state officials here and elsewhere are concerned that a move by Congress to discourage illegal immigration by requiring license applicants to produce four types of identification could lead to long waits and a cumbersome, confusing process to get a driver's license or an official state ID.

"The time the customer will spend in the MVA will increase," said Buel Young, spokesman for the agency.

The Real ID Act, which was approved by the U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday and likely will clear the Senate next week, would require most license applicants to show a photo ID, a birth certificate, proof of their Social Security number and a document showing their full name and address. All of the documents then would have to be checked against federal databases.

Most states now require driver's license applicants to show two or three forms of ID. Maryland, which has spent three years devising a customer-friendly, one-stop process for license renewals, does not collect and scan birth certificates and other personal documents that it would have to handle under Congress' plan. To do so, the MVA would need more computer space and more employees, Young said.

The act would give states three years to comply. After that, licenses from states that did not meet the new federal standards could not be used to board an airplane or enter certain federal buildings. The National Conference of State Legislatures has blasted the plan as an unfunded federal mandate that could cost states $500 million.

Whatever the cost, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said, some states might not be able to afford it without federal funding — which is not included in the measure that is moving through Congress.

"This means getting the whole country up to speed. Some states aren't going to make it," he said. "Then that state's IDs won't get accepted. That means you can't get on a plane. That's a pretty profound hardship for the citizens of whichever state that turns out to be."

In Maine, some applicants already have to wait several hours to get a driver's license, he said. "You add on to that increased standards of scrutiny and verification; that's something the public will really bridle at."

Civil liberties groups such as the ACLU say they are concerned that the standardized licenses created by the act would amount to a national ID card that could be used to track residents' movements and habits. States increasingly are making licenses more sophisticated by encrypting them with information about the license holder. The American Civil Liberties Union fears that people who check licenses used as IDs — store clerks who use electronic scanners, for example — could gain access to private information about the license holder.

The Real ID Act is intended to make it more difficult for terrorists, criminals and illegal aliens to get driver's licenses. The act's author, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., says Americans are willing to sacrifice in order to improve national security.

Machlin says she is. "It's a good idea because of all those (9/11) terrorists who were able to get driver's licenses," she said. "If it truly is safer, I'd wait."

But her husband, Irving, wondered whether a determined terrorist would find a way around the new standards.

Hedy Bauman, 59, who had waited more than a half-hour in line Thursday at another Maryland MVA office in Beltsville, said she would trade getting a license quickly to boost national security. "Anything that's going to make it harder for the wrong people to do the wrong thing, I think is a good thing."

First, who in their right mind wants to have their social security number put on their drivers license! Can we say IDENTITY THEFT? Second of all, if you're going into get an ID, say you just turned 16, how in the hell are you supposed to produce a PHOTO ID? I didn't have a photo ID until I got my license! Third, not allowing people to fly if their license doesn't meet the standards? That's crazy because we citizens aren't the ones who determine what is on the licenses! That's the state officials job.

Look I understand we don't want terrorists to fly (although if they really wanted to attack they should consider Amtrak -- complete lack of secuity) but this just seems like a bunch of nonsense. I don't like them creating electronic banks of data and documents, especially after all the recent data thefts! There's got to be a way to make getting a license more secure without all this.

**GrhmLz** · 05-08-2005, 05:11 PM

Yeah, this sounds like a bunch of nonsense. This isn't going to prevent identity theft or terrorism. It's just going to create more of a hassle for the average citizen. First off, people are still going to be able to retrieve fake or fraudulent I.D's. There were just some people, who worked in the DMV, arrested recently in my state for selling and distributing liscense that belonged to other people. And, social security numbers? People steal those all the time because they're sold on the black market too. So, once people obtain that information it's just easy access to birth certificates (because all you need is that photo I.D) and mail. Walaaaa!!!! You still have identity theft.

And were is someone going to get a valid photo I.D to get a valid Photo I.d from the DMV? In most cases, most places only consider photo ids fromt the DMV as valid to begin with.

What are they going to say? "Sorry, but his isn't an acceptable form of picture I.d" And then the person asks, "Where can I get one?" Then they say, "From here but we still can't give you one until we have an acceptable form of photo id. Not everybody carries a Passport or military photo i.d. you know?

JW77 · 05-10-2005, 06:47 AM

I'm pretty sure that in some states SS numbers are already being used for license numbers. I just can't remember where it was that I saw that.

Anyway, I'm not big on this idea either. Seems like a sneaky way around the problems that they ran into with a national id system.

AlexEvans · 05-10-2005, 09:37 AM

It sounds like an insufficiently thought-through solution to a real problem. In particular, SSNs should probably not appear on licenses.

However, please note:

Quote:

licenses from states that did not meet the new federal standards could not be used to board an airplane or enter certain federal buildings

It doesn't say people from those states cannot board planes, as Dunlap claims. They can't use their drivers licenses alone to do so.

I don't have a drivers license (because the insurance company will screw me when I get one, although I'm going to go ahead this summer anyway). In some situations, therefore, I already use other forms of photo ID in conjunction with either my Birth Certificate, in Canada, or my Consular Report of Birth Abroad, in the US.

Yeah, it's an inconvenience to have to carry photocopies of extra documents. But that's different from not being able to fly at all without the new ID. And that's the same way you'll get it in the first place, without needing to have an equivalently secure form of identification already.

*Lauren · 05-10-2005, 10:20 AM

We need that in NSW. Its not that difficult. The way its done is that you need to have 100 points of ID to get your licence (or open a back account ect)

Photo ID is quite simple. Don't you people have passports? Which also could be used to get on planes, or in buildings if you state has no money. Maybe its different in America, but I've had a passport since I was eight. Then again, it could substantially disadvantage people who are poorer.

Maggie aka Sarah · 05-10-2005, 10:29 AM

lauren: There have been a number of articles in the news in Canada recently about the new requirements that are coming into effect how people will soon need a passport to enter the US from Canada and enter Canada from the US. Apparently only about 60% of Canadians and about 40% of Americans have passports.

And since getting a passport in Canada costs about $80 by my memory... this whatever could be a disadvantage to people who are poorer.

Maggie

AlexEvans · 05-10-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Lauren

We need that in NSW. Its not that difficult. The way its done is that you need to have 100 points of ID to get your licence (or open a back account ect)

Photo ID is quite simple. Don't you people have passports? Which also could be used to get on planes, or in buildings if you state has no money. Maybe its different in America, but I've had a passport since I was eight. Then again, it could substantially disadvantage people who are poorer.

Points of ID? That sounds interesting... it may be the sort of organization that's needed before this system can be made to work. Maybe we should rip-off, er gain inspiration from, that.

I think most people in North America don't have passports. They aren't required for travel between Canada and the US (this may - or may not - change). Unless you live near the Mexican border, you aren't near anyplace you'd need a passport to go to. I don't think they're that expensive, people just don't find them useful.

Speaking of not accepting identification - there are so many problems with Canadian passports that one of our provinces (BC) will not accept them as a form of photo ID.

AlexEvans · 05-10-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie aka Sarah

lauren: There have been a number of articles in the news in Canada recently about the new requirements that are coming into effect how people will soon need a passport to enter the US from Canada and enter Canada from the US. Apparently only about 60% of Canadians and about 40% of Americans have passports.

And since getting a passport in Canada costs about $80 by my memory... this whatever could be a disadvantage to people who are poorer.

Maggie

Oops, crossposted... I'm quite surprised the percentages are that high! But I'm glad to have the information.

The new requirements for entry into the US are being re-examined, btw, so they may not come into effect. In any case, they won't apply to certain groups of people, e.g. Nexus users (a program that provides people with a special photo ID enabling more rapid border crossings in both directions).

mh67511 · 05-10-2005, 04:33 PM

Well most people don't have passports because there is no need. Unless you are traveling overseas, you don't need it. Plus it's a hassle, as you have to get the passport photos and wait six weeks, and expensive ($55). My drivers license cost $9.50 so it would suck to have had to pay $55 to get a passport, then on top of that pay $9.50 just to get a license. And in all honestly, if they force states to do this, license fees would probably go up as they said it could cost up to $500 million. I wonder if they would accept school or work ID's as positive photo ID? That would solve the problem of having to get a passport.

I just don't see how this would make things any more secure or safe or benefit the average citizen. Someone could come here legally, become a citizen, get a drivers license, and still attack us.

It kind of cracks me up how the government is so concerned about illegal immigrants getting drivers licenses...yet our borders are still unsecure. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. People couldn't get a drivers license if they weren't here in the country in the first place.

Drekkan · 05-10-2005, 04:43 PM

Watch out, in a couple years they'll be barcoding us dang it.

*Lauren · 05-10-2005, 04:51 PM

My heart cries for you poor people having to pay $55 for a passport and $10 for your licence. My Aussie passport cost me $130 and my British cost me $100 (which was optinal, but makes life easier over in Europe) My licence costs $39 for a year, but that dosen't include the $40 I have to take for sitting the test, pass or fail.

mh67511 · 05-11-2005, 08:58 PM

I understand sarcasm but $55 is equal to 10 hours of work for me (more like 12 hours after taxes) so I don't consider that chump change. I don't travel internationally (not like I could afford it) so I have no need for it.

JW77 · 05-12-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Lauren

My heart cries for you poor people having to pay $55 for a passport and $10 for your licence. My Aussie passport cost me $130 and my British cost me $100 (which was optinal, but makes life easier over in Europe) My licence costs $39 for a year, but that dosen't include the $40 I have to take for sitting the test, pass or fail.

Is that in AUD? And is that the total amount that it cost you for each passport? Because if it is then the cost is about the same. Actual cost of a US passport is like $100 US after you add the security and execution fees.

I got expedited service when I got my passport, so I paid the extra $60, plus the extra overnight shipping fees both ways. Don't remember what the total cost was, but I remember it was quite a bit.

As far as the license thing, yeah, you get screwed on that.

My license fee is like $15 every five years. I'm not sure how that will change with this stupid real id thing though.


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