News & Politics - "peace" rally in San Francisco - Page 2

JohannafromIHJ · 03-24-2004, 06:25 AM

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Originally posted by n e r b l e:
From pregnantpause.org: �A seaweed-based substance called �laminaria� is inserted into the cervix to dilate it, usually overnight. The next day forceps with sharp metal teeth are inserted and used to twist and tear off the unborn baby's limbs and remove them piece-by-piece. The head is usually too large to be removed whole and must be crushed.�connected to a suction device, similar to a home vacuum cleaner but much more powerful. Between the sharp edge and the force of the suction, the developing baby is torn apart and the pieces sucked out through the tube.�

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] Pregnantpause.org? The site featuring an abundance of "Oh, how I regret my abortion!" stories along with the web-designing skills of a Junior High Student? Well, I'm convinced. If it's on the internet, it must be run by respected scientists!

And no mention of medical abortion, the most common form of abortion for early pregnancy? Not gorey enough?

Aside from that, just because it is developing doesn't mean it's already developed. You don't call a seed a flower, or a child an adult. The embryo is a mass of tissue that, if left where it is, will either be naturally aborted or develop into a baby.

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a head and arms and legs are a "mass of tissue" to you? and by the way, you brought up "bombing abortion clinics" not me.

I used it as an example to show how incredibly stupid the "Pro-war people have jobs" bitching is (which wasn't funny the first time a mediocre stand-up comedian pulled it on Jay Leno, it's still not funny a year later).

As for that picture... What's wrong with it? He's ashamed of his country, so what? Is there a law against that? Should everyone smile and cheer, even if they feel their country is doing something wrong? Doesn't he have the right to tell others that he's ashamed of his country?

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Originally posted by n e r b l e:
for the second time, i did not bring in abortion.

No, you just turned a statement meant to mirror the stupidity of the "Anti-war people have no jobs!"-rant into a chance to complain about "murdered babies". But that was all my fault. I should have known mentioning a building related to abortions would cause someone to go off about actual abortions.

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and it's not a matter of just dissenting. if you want to dislike, or be ashamed of america or whatever, so be it. and not to beat a dead horse, but why not move to a country you're not ashamed of? not to sound like we're trying to run you off the continent but wouldn't you be happier in a country with views that matched your own? i don't know, maybe you like a lot of what america offers but what's going on now upsets you. but constant negativity will make people think you hate the place.

Maybe some people want to stay where they were born? Maybe some people think that rather than running away from a country in turmoil, they should stay and fight to turn it into something they could be proud of?

I mean, if everyone ran from a country when they disagreed with the politics there'd be nowhere left to live by now.

sum1 · 03-24-2004, 04:11 PM

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Originally posted by JohannafromIHJ:
 Or, you're busy blowing up abortion clinics.

The implication of that statement is that anybody who opposes the "anti-war" movement opposes abortion and that anybody who opposes abortion blows up abortion clinics. Which includes implying that all supporters of the Iraq war blow up abortion clinics. You've just insulted multiple posters on this board.

Personally, I'm firmly in support of the Iraq war but also thoroughly pro-choice. And I don't blow up abortion clinics.

Our moderator, Katis, is anti-abortion and supports the Iraq war. Are you suggesting she blows up abortion clinics?

JohannafromIHJ · 03-24-2004, 06:06 PM

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Originally posted by sum1:
The implication of that statement is that anybody who opposes the "anti-war" movement opposes abortion and that anybody who opposes abortion blows up abortion clinics.

No, because we all know that all those who are anti-war are not unemployed. Therefore, it should be fairly simply to realise that all those who are pro-war are not blowing up abortion clinics.

Pro-war Person: Where are all the pro-war people? They have jobs!
Anti-war Person: No, they're just busy blowing up abortion clinics!

See the silliness? See the complete lack of any kind of truth? See how no moderately intelligent person can take it seriously?

Mind you, one could turn this around and ask nerble if he/she thinks all anti-war people are unemployed, or if she just posted that to piss off all the anit-war people on this board. But I don't take statements like that seriously, and I certainly don't take them as an insult. And I fail to see how anyone could seriously think that I believe pro-war people are absent from rallies because they're busy blowing up abortion clinics.

sum1 · 03-24-2004, 07:00 PM

Katis · 03-24-2004, 09:40 PM

Ok, it's time for people on both sides to calm down a little bit. Assumptions are being made all around and those are generally a bad thing, as recent discussion here has proved. Let's just get back on topic.

And for the record, no I am not bombing any abortion clinics. Explosives, anything like explosives and I don't mix well. I would probably blow my hand off if I tried to do anything of the like [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Edited because I realized I worded one of those sentences very, very strangely.

[ 03-24-2004: Message edited Katis ]

StellaSlight · 03-24-2004, 11:26 PM

And I am not unemployed! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

sum1 · 03-25-2004, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katis:
Ok, it's time for people on both sides to calm down a little bit. Assumptions are being made all around and those are generally a bad thing, as recent discussion here has proved. Let's just get back on topic.

And for the record, no I am not bombing any abortion clinics. Explosives, anything like explosives and I don't mix well. I would probably blow my hand off if I tried to do anything of the like [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Edited because I realized I worded one of those sentences very, very strangely.

[ 03-24-2004: Message edited Katis ]

Thanks, we could use a little calm here. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

And I'm very relieved to hear you don't blow up clinics. I'd been wondering about that... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

JohannafromIHJ · 03-25-2004, 11:18 AM

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Originally posted by sum1:
Do I think that you actually believe all "pro-war" people blow up abortion clinics? No. Do I believe that you might imply they do, intending it as a deliberate slur on them? Certainly. You've said some pretty far out nasty things in the past and it would be in keeping with that. So, in that sense, somebody "moderately intelligent" actually could "take it seriously".

I've said nasty things? Everyone here has! I don't see why I should be singled out.

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How about you don't try exchanging petty insults with nerble, or anyone else, and then nobody will think you're being insulting?

Or how about you stop being so sensitive and stay out of any disagreements between me and nerble? She/He posted an article taking a stab at pro-war people, I replied with a statement meant to be as ridiculous as hers/his, she/he dragged abortion into it, I suggested she/he take it to the abortion-thread, you butted in and started going on about how I was calling Katis an abortion-clinic-bomber. If anyone's taking this too far, it's you. So I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling me nasty, had a beer and chilled out.

sum1 · 03-25-2004, 12:20 PM

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Originally posted by JohannaFromIHJ:
I've said nasty things? Everyone here has! I don't see why I should be singled out.

Or how about you stop being so sensitive and stay out of any disagreements between me and nerble? She/He posted an article taking a stab at pro-war people, I replied with a statement meant to be as ridiculous as hers/his, she/he dragged abortion into it, I suggested she/he take it to the abortion-thread, you butted in and started going on about how I was calling Katis an abortion-clinic-bomber. If anyone's taking this too far, it's you. So I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling me nasty, had a beer and chilled out.

I really think you should take a look at Katis's above post calling for calm on the thread. What you just posted is argumentative and thus basically ignores Katis's request. However, I'm not interested in continuing this argument with you. As such, I'm not going to further respond to you on this thread. If you wish to argue, that is your prerogative, but I'm not going join you in it. Please have a nice day.

[ 03-25-2004: Message edited sum1 ]

Enigma, I.C. · 03-25-2004, 12:24 PM

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Originally posted by sum1:
I really think you should take a look at Katis's above post calling for calm on the thread. What you just posted is argumentative and thus basically ignores Katis's request. However, I'm not interested in continuing this argument with you. As such, I'm not going to further respond to you on this thread. If you wish to argue, that is your prerogative, but I'm not going join you in it. Please have a nice day.

That's cute. You slam Johanna and then you hide behind someone else and pretend you did nothing inflammatory. I should try that sometime.

[ 03-25-2004: Message edited Enigma, I.C. ]

sum1 · 03-25-2004, 12:29 PM

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Originally posted by Enigma, I.C.:
That's cute. You slam Johanna and then you hide behind someone else and pretend you did nothing inflammatory. I should try that sometime.

[ 03-25-2004: Message edited Enigma, I.C. ]

I have no intention of arguing with you either, Enigma. You have a nice day, too.

**n e r b l e** · 03-25-2004, 05:36 PM

okay.... um, if anyone's been angry on the board it's going to have pretty much been everyone but sum1. i think i've been restrained but it's hard to tell when it's yourself. but she did not deserve that.

and the issue is why is it that no one has a problem with the "i love ny better w/ out the towers" unless they're on the right... or do you agree with them?

ceilirose · 03-25-2004, 07:08 PM

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Originally posted by n e r b l e:

and the issue is why is it that no one has a problem with the "i love ny better w/ out the towers" unless they're on the right... or do you agree with them?

Maybe because it's free speech and with that freedom there will be things said that you don't agree with or find distasteful. However if no laws are broken nor physical harm done than an individual has a right to express an opinion. I prefer that even though it can become messy and unruly. It's much better than suppressing people's opinions because they don't agree with the majority rule.

There are many things that conservatives in general say and do that make me shudder but as long as they are within the laws then it's their right. I don't pay attention to them other than a passing glance..in other words..you just deal with it.

BTW..I work and pay my taxes too and I'm anti-war. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

StellaSlight · 03-25-2004, 09:07 PM

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Originally posted by n e r b l e:
okay.... um, if anyone's been angry on the board it's going to have pretty much been everyone but sum1. i think i've been restrained but it's hard to tell when it's yourself. but she did not deserve that.

Everyone has been angry on this board in the past on other topics (you know the old "the leftists are angry because they're called unemployed, troublesome terrorists-lovers and the rightists are angry because they're called abortion-clinics blowers" misunderstanding is not a first), including sum1, so no one can be singled out or be excused with a mere 'she/he didn't deserved that'. And I believe sum1 is a he. [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]

Anyway, we should move on and go back on topic.

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and the issue is why is it that no one has a problem with the "i love ny better w/ out the towers" unless they're on the right... or do you agree with them?

Actually I think this slogan is rather stupid and totally non-related to the core of the topic of Iraq.
I've always been wary of the association war in Iraq/war against terror because I think that these are distinct and separate wars (hence the disagreement on the existence of WMD), even though Bush tries to convince everyone of the contrary. I think it's unecessary to bring the NY/Twin Towers topic out to protest against the war in Iraq, but if that's what those demonstrators really think, well, that's their constitutionnal right to say so. Even though I think some of their slogans are pretty stupid.

But as Johanna's "blowing-up clinics" argument aimed to point at (even though it has been totally misunderstood), I do believe not all anti-abortion people spend their free time blowing up clinics, and I think some people here should give the anti-war people credit for not being all Intifada-lovers or unemployed lazy asses, just because of some shocking slogans. Especially not in this board, where the mentioned topics have been discussed endlessly, and where opinions of each are pretty much known by all.

mh67511 · 03-26-2004, 12:54 PM

I think they should take their sign and their constituional right to NYC. Then let's see if they still think terrorism that caused 3000 people to die is not a bad thing.

That's why people wonder how this can be for peace. How are terrorist activities like that peaceful?

[ 03-26-2004: Message edited mh67511 ]