mh67511

I think that's pretty stupid. She's 8 and it's not a big deal. I remember singing this in church as a kid and it was a fun song that I liked. It's not as if she's asking anybody to like the song or agree with it, she just wants to show off her singing abilitiy and it's a song she probably knows and likes! Anyways I think kids SHOULD be exposed to other beliefs. How else can you LEARN about other cultures, religions, etc.? It's called diversity.

Heck in my grade school we had a powwow. Now if what we learned was true that was a "religious ceremony," however it was a lot of fun and pretty interesting. Plus they let us get up and dance!

I think people are just so afraid to offend others. Why an 8 year old singing a song she learned in church choir would be "offensive" is beyond me, but who knows anymore.

In Fair Verona

This is one of those situations were BOTH sides are wrong, or not necessarily 'wrong', but to be frank, sensitive idiots.

First of all, the girl is eight, she's not trying to do a mass conversion of the talent show audience. Just let her sing.

Secondly, so the girl can't sing because it may offend people, understand this, tell her to pick a different song, and get over it.

Life doesn't go the way you want it to on both sides. I wish people would be able to deal with these things consciously instead of wasting taxpayer dollars and time on court cases on these trivial things. Just let it go and deal with it, for cripes' sake.

TokyoNiGHTS

While the girl obviously isn't doing it for the purpose of teaching others her religion, the school is still doing the right thing. Religion in general simply needs to be removed from school. There's a time and a place for that and its not for schools.

With that said, the song she was going to sing is HILARIOUS.

mh67511

Religion CAN'T be removed from school. So much of history deals with religion, from the founding of America and the Puritans, to Native Americans and their religions, to ancient Greeks, etc. the list goes on and on. Not to mention many of the classics read in schools. Anyways most Americans believe in a higher power and most Americans claim to practice some religion. It has a big impact on our society and views, etc. No reason to pretend it doesn't exist.

ceilirose

Talk about frivolous lawsuits. So the next kid can sing a song about Buddha, the Jewish child has his turn, the Catholic girl sings Ave Maria and so on. Right...all on the taxpayer's dime. Hopefully a child who is an atheist gets his or her turn as well and tells everyone that there is no higher power. Have to wonder how that will go over.

It will make most long for an off key rendition of "Wind Beneath My Wings" dedicated to a retiring teacher.

There's a difference between teaching religion and atheism in a general sense in the public schools and singing about God in a public school setting where not everyone shares the same beliefs as her. This girl has all the religious freedom that anyone else has in this country. In a secular setting which uses public funds everyone's feelings have to be considered...not just those of Christians.

In Fair Verona had the basic idea a few weeks (months) back - it's not about rights it's about privileges. Her rights aren't being abused at all.

Subject

It's more a matter that religion can't be removed from the history of certain groups and history must be learned. Religion can and should be removed from schools but only to an point. The school should not support (fund) or encourage any type of religious activity unless it does for all religions.

They also shouldn't stop a student from expressing their views unless it will cause harm to or for others. It's a song, pure and simple. Anything could offend someone. People need to grow up. Besides, it was a talent show. If a school encourages expression with events like a talent show, they have no right to stop someone from doing just that.

Elizajoey

Why did she have to sing THAT song?

If a child had chosen to sing other songs with references to drugs/sex - they would have been censored but because the school tried to be aware of its duties of the separation of chuch and state, it was an action acgainst her freedom of speech.

Why did they have to sue? I think both sides have acted in negative ways.

Then again, I have heard that song and I dont know the girl's singing ability but I've heard it sung before with a competent singer and it is quite a painful song to hear...

Drekkan

There's nothing wrong with the girl singing that song. Why? Because songs about God aren't necessarily supposed to convert people, or 'impose you faith' on them. If you're offended by it, you're too thin-skinned to survive in this world.

Also, it never says who 'our God' is. If you're a Muslim, you can tell yourself that 'Our God' is Allah. Jews can use God - as can Christians. Wiccans can use whatever spirit or whatnot they primarily worship. Atheists can just be amused that people are signing about something fictional, and instead admire (or snicker) at a good/bad rendition of music.

I hate this frivolous lawsuit though. It's the same hatred I feel about the ACLU when it takes on a case dedicated to removing a cross from public ground that had been put up on a hill to commemorate WWI veterans. One that had stood since the 1930s. Because someone 'doesn't want to look at it'. Guess what a-hole; if you don't like looking at it DON'T LOOK AT IT. I don't like MTV - so I DON'T WATCH THE CHANNEL.

Instead of doing that sort of crap, the ACLU should be doing what it's meant to do, protect our essential liberties. Why are they prosecuting this, and not invasive laws like mandatory seatbelts for adults and the PATRIOT act. Actually do some good for a change.

WalkingOnSunshine

Maybe the parents felt the only way they could get their side heard was to file a lawsuit? I mean it is the popular choice in this country when you feel you have been mistreated - even to the slightest possible degree.

Are Christmas songs even sung in holiday festivals at public schools?

I agree - the filing of lawsuits in this country has become out of hand to an extreme. However, it seems people depend for one reason or another to believe that filing suit is their only way to be heard. Until something is done to limit frivolous lawsuits nothing will change.

The ACLU has become a joke in recent years to me because of the type of cases it handles. Those cases usually include off the wall "innocent" people being misunderstood by the law, government and/or others. The cases that they choose almost always will secure them a spot on various cable news channels.

Invasive laws like mandatory seatbelts for adults? How is that invasive? Besides many people will file lawsuits about minor injuries sustained in a car accident when they weren't wearing their seatbelt. As for the Patriot Act, well I think I better leave that one alone.

RedRockSedona

The song also has the lyric verse


When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just putting on the ritz
There's thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fists
The Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason
That He shed His blood
His return is very close
And so you better be believing that

and that my friends is a threat! A threat that does not belong in a public school. [period]

And Drekkon that's the Christian god that is referanced

As for Christmas songs most are not condescending in a believe about god many like 'Deck the Halls' and 'Wassailing" are actually pegan in origin and still many others are either "winter" songs or songs about reindeer and/or Santa

Drekkan

First off, it still makes no difference regardless of what God it is. All it conveys is that a young girl actually has some faith and religious belief. In a culture that is otherwise dominated by songs that don't deserve to be mentioned in civilized company, it's nice seeing a young girl going down the right path. And don't even get me started on Christmas. Everyday in our school there seemed to be some sort of "Remember Ramadan" or "Happy Kwanza" or "It's Chunnaka"(sp?). But lord help you if you actually wanted to wish someone a "merry Christmas" or put up a Christmas tree. Once again, anyone that can't take this is too thin-skinned to actually survive in America of today.

Seatbelts save lives. However, the choice to use them should be placed in the hands of the individuals in the car. The difference here is for minors - people who society goes out of its way to protect until they can make an informed choice. The government shouldn't be penalising me because I don't want to wear a seatbelt. Now mind, I always do, but the government has no right forcing it upon me. Thus, the law is invasive.

RedRockSedona

>>But lord help you if you actually wanted to wish someone a "merry Christmas" or put up a Christmas tree.

Personally I find that a load of crap. I can't go a season when I am not inundated with Christmas in all its various forms and colors. Not only that but no sooner than November 1st rolls around there it is. By December everywhere I go I have happy faces telling me "Merry Christmas"

Now I like Christmas lights and trees, carols and for some reason those big “silver bell” type heard in the "carol of the bells" song. However I am so not a Christian.

And while I would rather see all faiths celebrated than only one, I would at the same time have had a big problem with any other religious song that said how they were some how better than all others. Or in this case how we should fear them because their god (the smiting kind) was an awesome god.

But the real point that should be made here is your religion so fragile that it needs reinforcement 24/7? And does that reinforcement need to overflow into where it is unwanted?

>>>Once again, anyone that can't take this is too thin-skinned to actually survive in America of today.

Thank You! Now can I go marry the woman I love despite what [your] dogma says?

Can the 1st, 4th, 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to The Constitution now actually apply to me a Gay US adult citizen despite what [your] dogma says?

Or are you so thinned skinned that you want to deny me these rights and have that based solely on what [your] dogma says


>>it's nice seeing a young girl going down the right path

Yes, but would [you] still think that if she indeed was Islamic? Jewish? Hindu? any of the other world regions? And suppose she did not believe in a god (or goddess) (or the plural) Are morals truly dictated by religious doctrine or in the realization of self and who we want to be as a person?

Personally and although I am a deist I believe that our moral compass [is] ourselves. For I have met far more morally principled and honest folks who were without faith than who have been with.



Lastly and for the record Kwanzaa a cultural realization about family and community and has no political or religious dogma

Drekkan

Then why does my school advertise 'Ramadan festivities' but then demand that we not put up a Christmas tree? Why are we told in announcements that it's the first day of Channuka, but not the first day of Lent or Advent?

Then there's the fact that I have no problems with you marrying the woman you want to marry. Or my Godfather marrying the man he loves. Nor do I have a problem with any amendments being applied to Gay US Americans. But your trampling on their freedom of religion is the same as them trampling on your freedoms.

Finally, I would have no problem if they were Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, or Zorastrian. It's nice to see children singing songs praising God instead of singing songs about their hoes, bling, and busting caps in peoples butts.

RedRockSedona

How am I being discriminatory towards religion if I say that

"I would rather see all faiths celebrated than only one"

or

"that I would have a big problem with any other religious song that said how they were some how better than all others."?


>>>Then why does my school advertise 'Ramadan festivities' but then demand that we not put up a Christmas tree? Why are we told in announcements that it's the first day of Chanukah, but not the first day of Lent or Advent?

I can't speak for your school but I did have one or two problems with your example. For starters first day of Chanukah starts on a Friday (at sunset) Ramadan floats but is generally starts mid week in October and Advent starts on a Sunday I am not certain but you are probably not in school on a Sunday...and then as for the first day of lent which is a Wednesday I can only say your school probably Thinks it has that covered by celebrating Mardi Gras in some form and fashion (our school always had Jambalaya in the cafeteria...and then Pizza Friday became Fish Friday) And we always had an Easter week off from school during lent.


Also I believe there is a difference between festivities and a Christmas tree: one is an event the other is an icon. Now if you mentioned that your school does not have a Christmas festival or that your "winter festival/pageant" deliberately leaves off the word "Christmas" but keeps Chanukah, winter solstice: Yule or saturnalia, Kwanzaa (but like I said not a religious holiday) I would have a problem. But know this saying "Happy Holidays" and "winter festival/pageant" are both ALL INCLUSIVE. I hate that many just do not "get" that or think that it diminishes their own given holiday.

WalkingOnSunshine

I agree. It seems that it is okay to remove Christmas & its components, because they might offend. But if you try to remove any of the other holidays you are going to be in for a fight because you intruded on someone's religious freedom. It seems to easier to insult and offend the majority (who do celebrate Christmas) for the sake of the minority who do not.

I went to a private Catholic school all my life and about the time I was a freshmen in high school the songs changed from old-fashioned Christmas songs to non-specific holiday songs. The reason? A few people had complained about the song selection so it changed.

I understand what you are saying, but I cannot say I agree. I think wearing a seatbelt should not be a choice but a requirment. If something is going to possibly save your life in the unfortunate event of an accident wouldn't you use it? People who complain about the restrictions imposed upon them by a seatbelt law should not be able to file any sort of BI or tort lawsuits if they are in an accident.