*Ledi*

Alright... since there's a lot of people from other countries here, I thought I'd start a thread about it.. so we can talk about how we view America right now I guess, and our thoughts on the whole election since it pretty much affects all of us.

dyxlecis gril

i'm nervous. and scared. if bush wins, gay marriage will be banned and i will never ever be able to move there, move in with my girlfriend. i'll be stuck here. he's such an evil man. i hope his wife moves to papua new guinea to live with the natives, they lose all their money so they can't visit each other and they can only communicate through letters. i wonder if there's a post office in the jungle on papua new guinea?

i try to stay positive, but i'm pessimistic by nature, so it's hard.

pacifierrocks

no, his wife should come out as a lesbian. the whole thing that i don't get about bush/cheney is that cheney's daughter is a lesbian. i don't understand how he can be against ga marriage. if you want to move here and be with your g/f then move to vermont. because they're cool about it.

dyxlecis gril

will that work though? if there's a national ban on gay marriage? what pisses me off the most is that i don't want to get married, i just want to be able to stay and be seen as the signifigant other, without stupid papers. but i'm sure once i get money saved up, and if there's no possible other way for us to be together, we'll move to canada or something.

'cause canada's cool. and i don't think you have to be married to get rights there either. and it's close to wisconsin? haha, sort of anyway.

*Ledi*

oh you should totally move up here! and if you do, come and say hi cause I like you!

X-6_494

hee, outsiders.

Too bad lots of voters don't realise their decision affects the rest of the world. They'd have to acknowledge its existence first, though. ;-)

Of course, to this they'd reply it's THEIR president, etc etc. Which is completely true.

But the neo-con international politics don't only concern them. Especially with Irak, since it was NO threat to the US. And with Dubya now axing the war on "spreading freedom" and not on defending the country, how does this not concern the rest of the world already? *facepalm*

Indian Summer

Or Massachusetts. There's no marriage, obviously, but civil unions. Which basically means you get the rights (think power of attorney, visiting SO in hospital, that kind of thing) without the title. And, of course, P-town. Uh, yeah, there's a reason they call us the liberal state. P-town is basically the Amsterdam of the US, lol.

dyxlecis gril

but i thought bush was trying to ban gay marriage completely. civil unions and all. or can't he do that once massachusetts has already decided it's legal? see, i don't really want to get married. i like the word girlfriend better than wife. and if i have the rights, i don't care about the papers. i already have the ring

but yeah, it really depends on how desperate it gets. we'll see.

Avatar

This thread made me think of this article... it's a shame that the people of the world don't have a say in what happens in the world's only remaining superpower, as what it does ultimately affects everyone.

*Ledi*

I know. I think all of us should be allowed to vote since this election affects everyone pretty much.

I for one am hoping that Bush will be out of job next week. I just can't even imagine what it'd be like if he won. Scary, scary thought.

HornyCookie

Stephers, I love you.

Where I live, the US elections are getting such a huge coverage on tv, it's impressive (and slightly annoying).

I

HornyCookie

double post

pacifierrocks

Is he trying to ban gay marrages or anything that would resemble it? I thought that he just wanted the states to decie whatever they wanted to do. But i wouldn't put it past him.

oxymoron

Bush is pusihing a constituitional amendment that would declare matrriage between a man and a woman. This is hypocritical in that he generally supports federalism which believes in states rights.

As far as the American election affecting the rest of the world, Thomas Friedman wrote an excellent column on that in The New York Times about a year ago.

It is my personal opinion that Bush's view in this area is actually ethnocentric, provincial and anti-democratic. Democracy is a universal principle, while nation-state is a convention, an arbitrary construction. Thus, one who believes in the ideal of the voice of the people ought to recognize that in today's global world where America is the undisputed leader the policies of America effect everyone, sometimes even more than the policies of their own nation. As such, should not the opinion of the rest of the world matter?

Perhaps in the future we can have a world democracy. But this is not realistic at this point and time. Still, there are international institutions that have been set up so that the common interests of all people's of the world can be represented. It is in regard to these bodies, institutions, treaties et al, that the Bush administration has turned their back. This indicates that they their belief in democracy is actually secondary to their belief in power-based self-interest. Right now, the people of America have a greater privilege in determining the direction of the world for all people's. The Bush administration is committed to preserve that privilege at the expense of democratic ideals.

The last point I would like to make is one of leadership. The Bush administration has made a large issue of American leadership in the world. Yet, these are the same people who have also made an issue of not listening to the opinions of those other people. In fact, most Bush supporters resent the fact that people from other nations may have an opinion on how America should lead. Personally, I find it ironic that those same people who are so avid about declaring American leadership in the world are the ones who are the least likely to care about what matters to the people they are claiming to lead. That I think is emblematic. I believe the Bush administration's greatest flaw is ethnocentricism. I have posted about this in my "Letter to an Undecided Voter" thread, so I will forgo any more length in this post and end it here.

Know that there are people in America who respect the opinions of others in the world. We are not happy with the arrogance and wish for a more cooperative and constructive relationship in the future. Unfortunately, it will be at least 4 more years coming I fear.

ceilirose

Just to add to what oxymoron posted, at least half of those Americans who will vote on Tuesday want a change in leadership. Many of us share the feeling that our country has turned into something that we don't recognize anymore. When you have to sign a loyalty oath or recite a loyalty pledge to hear the President/Vice-President speak then you have to start thinking seriously about what's happened in the last four years.

There's alot of us who do know that it's in the world's best interest for America to work with other countries to solve major problems. It should have never come to an us against them scenario but that's where it seems to be at now.

Anyway I'm hopeful that things will change on Tuesday..not confident but I don't think it's a lost cause yet. Millions of Americans are working hard to make the change..we'll see what happens.