News & Politics - Olympic torch relay descends into chaos

migamoo · 04-07-2008, 08:20 AM

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Olympic torch relay descends into chaos - Yahoo! News

PARIS - Security officials snuffed out the Olympic torch and carried it through Paris in the safety of a bus at least five times Monday as chaotic protests against China's human rights record turned the relay into a chaotic series of stops and starts.

Despite massive security, at least two activists got within almost an arm's length of the flame before they were grabbed by police. A protester threw water at the torch but failed to extinguish it and was taken away. Officers tackled numerous protesters and carried some away.

At the start of the relay, on the Eiffel Tower's first floor, Green Party activist Sylvain Garel lunged for the first torchbearer, former hurdler Stephane Diagana, shouting "Freedom for the Chinese!" Security officials pulled Garel back.

"It is inadmissible that the games are taking place in the world's biggest prison," Garel said later.

The procession continued but a crowd of activists waving Tibetan flags soon interrupted it by confronting the torchbearer on a road along the Seine River. The demonstrators did not appear to get within reach of the torch, but its flame was put out by security officers and put on board a bus to continue part way along the route.

Less than an hour later, the flame was being carried out of a traffic tunnel by a woman athlete in a wheelchair when the procession was halted by activists who booed and chanted "Tibet." Once again, the torch was temporarily extinguished and put on a bus.

The third time, security officials apparently interrupted the procession because they spotted demonstrators ahead. After the torch was put on a bus, protesters threw plastic bottles, cups and pieces of bread at the vehicle and at a male wheelchair-bound athlete.

The torch disappeared back inside the bus a fourth time shortly after a protester approached it with a fire extinguisher near the Louvre art museum. Police grabbed the demonstrator before he could start to spray.

The flame was whisked into a bus again outside the National Assembly, where protesters gathered. A session of parliament was interrupted and a banner on the building read: "Respect for Human Rights in China." City Hall draped its building with a banner reading, "Paris defends human rights around the world."

Other demonstrators scaled the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame cathedral and hung banners depicting the Olympic rings as handcuffs.

About 3,000 officers were deployed on motorcycles, in jogging gear and with inline roller skates.

Police said they made at least 10 arrests but did not expect to have a full count before evening.

Pro-Tibet advocate Christophe Cunniet said he and around 20 other Tibet advocates were detained after they waved Tibetan flags, threw flyers and tried to block the route. Cunniet said police kicked him, cutting his forehead. "I'm still dazed," he said.

Mireille Ferri, a Green Party official, said she was held by police for two hours because she approached the Eiffel Tower area with a fire extinguisher.

In various locations throughout the city, activists angry about China's human rights record and crackdown on protesters in Tibetan areas carried Tibetan flags and waved signs reading "the flame of shame." Riot police squirted tear gas to break up a sit-in protest by about 300 demonstrators who blocked the torch route.

"The flame shouldn't have come to Paris," said protester Carmen de Santiago, who had "free" painted on one cheek and "Tibet" on the other.

Torchbearer Diagana said he was disappointed to see the protests, though he understood why activists were there.

"Nothing is happening as planned. It's unfortunate," he told France 2 television.

At least one athlete was supportive of demonstrators. Former Olympic champion Marie-Jose Perec told French television: "I think it is very, very good that people have mobilized like that."

Pro-Chinese activists carrying national flags held counter-demonstrations.

"The Olympic Games are about sports. It's not fair to turn them into politics," said Gao Yi, a Chinese second-year doctoral student in Paris in computer sciences.

France's former sports minister, Jean-Francois Lamour, stressed that, though the torch was put out aboard the bus, the Olympic flame itself still burned in the lantern where it is kept overnight and on airplane flights.

"The torch has been extinguished but the flame is still there," he told France Info radio.

Police had hoped to prevent the chaos that marred the relay in London a day earlier. There, police had repeatedly scuffled with activists angry about China's human rights record leading up to the Beijing Olympics Aug. 8-24. One protester tried to grab the torch; another tried to put out the flame with what appeared to be a fire extinguisher. Thirty-seven people were arrested.

In Paris, police had drawn up an elaborate plan to try to keep the torch in a safe "bubble." Torchbearers were encircled by several hundred officers. Boats patrolled the Seine River, which slices through the French capital, and a helicopter flew overhead.

About 80 athletes had been scheduled to carry the torch over the 17.4-mile route that started at the Eiffel Tower, headed down the Champs-Elysees toward City Hall, then crossed the Seine before ending at the Charlety track and field stadium.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has left open the possibility of boycotting the Olympic opening ceremony in Beijing depending on how the situation evolves in Tibet. Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said Monday that was still the case.

Activists have been protesting along the torch route since the flame embarked on its 85,000-mile journey from Ancient Olympia in Greece to Beijing.

The round-the-world trip is the longest in Olympic history, and is meant to highlight China's economic and political power. Activists have seized on it as a platform for their causes, angering Beijing.

Beijing organizers criticized London's protesters, saying their actions were a "disgusting" form of sabotage by Tibetan separatists.

"The act of defiance from this small group of people is not popular," said Sun Weide, a spokesman for the Beijing Olympic organizing committee. "It will definitely be criticized by people who love peace and adore the Olympic spirit. Their attempt is doomed to failure."

The torch relay also is expected to face demonstrations in San Francisco, New Delhi and possibly elsewhere on its 21-stop, six-continent tour before arriving in mainland China May 4.

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Associated Press writers Nicolas Garriga, Angela Doland and John Leicester contributed to this report.

I think people have the right to protest, and I'd be the first to encourage, but I really don't think this is the way to go about it. Yes, the Olympics, to an extent, promote peace and it's almost ironic in a way they they are being held in China this year, but to try and interrupt the relay is just wrong I think.

**sum1** · 04-07-2008, 01:18 PM

The relay should be cancelled. The olympics should be cancelled. It's a disgrace to go ahead with all that as long as it's to be in China and Tibet is still oppressed. The torchbearing is effectively celebrating the oppression of Tibet. It's disgusting. I'm so angry about it. Free Tibet already.

migamoo · 04-07-2008, 11:13 PM

I'm not going to disagree with freeing Tibet, but to cancel the Olympics is going a bit far, don't you think?

welshgirlyUK · 04-08-2008, 03:50 AM

As much as i think it's wrong having the Olympics in China, i dont think attacking athletes who work hard their whole lives to take part in the games is the right way to go about it. If people feel that strongly about it they should be campaigning to the people who can really change it, the politicians.

**sum1** · 04-08-2008, 04:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Fieryangel (View Post)

I'm not going to disagree with freeing Tibet, but to cancel the Olympics is going a bit far, don't you think?

I think taking part in the games when they're set in China is endorsing what China's doing. I think the responsible thing to do is not take part in the games.

**TheAngel** · 04-08-2008, 05:31 AM

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Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

I think taking part in the games when they're set in China is endorsing what China's doing. I think the responsible thing to do is not take part in the games.

Canceling the Olympics isn't going to do anything because look at how many countries import Chinese goods. Why should they listen to anyone. Everyone yells at China to free Tibet while importing billions of dollars every year in goods. What motivation does China have for freeing Tibet. It's not like not doing so is going to hurt them. All canceling the Olympics is going to do is hurt the athletes who have worked their entire lives for this one moment. And that, I don't think, is fair.

ceilirose · 04-08-2008, 07:52 AM

I'm not sure that the Olympics should ever have been awarded to China for a variety of reasons but now that's it's a reality - boycotting won't help things. The US boycotting Moscow in 1980 did nothing - that war (Soviet Union and Afghanistan) lasted until the late 1980's. The prime ministers, presidents etc. who are planning to not attend the opening ceremonies may make a bit of a statement.

migamoo · 04-08-2008, 09:45 AM

I agree with Angel. The only real way, I think to get through to China, would to stop importing and buying their goods.

ceilirose · 04-08-2008, 10:18 AM

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Originally Posted by Fieryangel (View Post)

I agree with Angel. The only real way, I think to get through to China, would to stop importing and buying their goods.

In some way it will but too many people (both Chinese and investors) are making too much money from trade/commerce with China. China's money is in part keeping the US Government afloat. It's just a messy, complicated situation. Boycotting the Olympics will do nothing but be a top news story for a few weeks and little else.

**sum1** · 04-08-2008, 02:15 PM

What I find amazing is how little enthusiasm there is on this thread for freeing Tibet or getting Tibet better treatment.

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Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

Canceling the Olympics isn't going to do anything because look at how many countries import Chinese goods. Why should they listen to anyone. Everyone yells at China to free Tibet while importing billions of dollars every year in goods. What motivation does China have for freeing Tibet. It's not like not doing so is going to hurt them. All canceling the Olympics is going to do is hurt the athletes who have worked their entire lives for this one moment. And that, I don't think, is fair.

Athletes shouldn't be taking part in olympics set in China as long as China is doing what it's doing. Taking part is just endorsing what China's doing.

And not with the bloody trade with China argument again, trade with China is inevitable and doesn't mean people shouldn't pressure China to clean up its act.

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Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

I'm not sure that the Olympics should ever have been awarded to China for a variety of reasons but now that's it's a reality - boycotting won't help things. The US boycotting Moscow in 1980 did nothing - that war (Soviet Union and Afghanistan) lasted until the late 1980's. The prime ministers, presidents etc. who are planning to not attend the opening ceremonies may make a bit of a statement.

Boycotting can certainly help. This is not the Moscow 1980 olympics. International recognition matters a lot to China's government. How people act about these olympics can make a difference. And even if it couldn't, nobody should recognize an olympics that effectively endorses what China's doing. Not boycotting is effectively endorsing the treatment of Tibet, the human rights abuses, the Sudan connection. Putting the olympics in China is an incredible insult to so many people.

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Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post)

Boycotting the Olympics will do nothing but be a top news story for a few weeks and little else.

If that was all it'd be that'd be reason enough to boycott. People need to hear about Tibet and the other China problems.

**TheAngel** · 04-08-2008, 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

What I find amazing is how little enthusiasm there is on this thread for freeing Tibet or getting Tibet better treatment. Athletes shouldn't be taking part in olympics set in China as long as China is doing what it's doing. Taking part is just endorsing what China's doing.

And not with the bloody trade with China argument again, trade with China is inevitable and doesn't mean people shouldn't pressure China to clean up its act.
Boycotting can certainly help. This is not the Moscow 1980 olympics. International recognition matters a lot to China's government. How people act about these olympics can make a difference. And even if it couldn't, nobody should recognize an olympics that effectively endorses what China's doing. Not boycotting is effectively endorsing the treatment of Tibet, the human rights abuses, the Sudan connection. Putting the olympics in China is an incredible insult to so many people.
If that was all it'd be that'd be reason enough to boycott. People need to hear about Tibet and the other China problems.

Well, you may not like the trade argument, but it's perfectly valid. China has no motivation what so ever to free Tibet if they're still making billions of dollars ever year from products that are exported to other countries. They have the largest military in the world, I highly doubt they're going to be pressured into do doing anything in that way, and since they're a nuclear power and they have veto power on the UN security council. In general, they're in a strong enough place politically and economically that they have no motivation at all to change their policies unless we impact them in some way. Canceling the Olympics or boycotting them is going to do absolutely nothing. Sure, let's do it. I really don't care one way or the other, but trying to put out the torch, possibly hurting the runners in the process, seems a little excessive to me. But, we boycott the Olympics, it isn't going to change a single thing about Chinese foreign policy.

**sum1** · 04-08-2008, 03:57 PM

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Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

Well, you may not like the trade argument, but it's perfectly valid. China has no motivation what so ever to free Tibet if they're still making billions of dollars ever year from products that are exported to other countries. They have the largest military in the world, I highly doubt they're going to be pressured into do doing anything in that way, and since they're a nuclear power and they have veto power on the UN security council. In general, they're in a strong enough place politically and economically that they have no motivation at all to change their policies unless we impact them in some way. Canceling the Olympics or boycotting them is going to do absolutely nothing. Sure, let's do it. I really don't care one way or the other, but trying to put out the torch, possibly hurting the runners in the process, seems a little excessive to me. But, we boycott the Olympics, it isn't going to change a single thing about Chinese foreign policy.

That's just simply not true. Boycotting the olympics is precisely the kind of thing that could infuence China. How China is seen by other countries matters a lot to the Chinese government.

Dark Half Undine · 04-08-2008, 04:10 PM

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Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

That's just simply not true. Boycotting the olympics is precisely the kind of thing that could infuence China. How China is seen by other countries matters a lot to the Chinese government.

If it mattered to them that much, they would already be doing things to stop their human rights abuses in Tibet and the Sudan.

It's not like people don't know about it. LOTS of people know about it. The Dalai Lama travels around the world making sure people know about it.

While I think that protesters should protest until the cows come home, at the same time I agree with Angel that economic and political motivation is going to be the final nail in the coffin to get China to do anything.

Look at it this way. Everyone trades with China, Tibet and Sudan are not important political and economic threats and so China does nothing, it appears nobody cares.

Then last year, there were a number of health scares in the U.S. and among the general American public about recalled toys, chemicals in certain hygiene products, which DIRECTLY affected China and the economy and their appearance in the public eye of the world. What did they do then? They executed the people responsible for the slip up. Executed. Because of economics and business. Do you really think if the world said "No more trade until Tibet is freed" they wouldn't do anything.

I personally don't think so.

welshgirlyUK · 04-08-2008, 04:21 PM

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Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

What I find amazing is how little enthusiasm there is on this thread for freeing Tibet or getting Tibet better treatment.

People are not saying they dont care about freeing tibet, i think what there saying is they dont necessarily think making athletes a scapegoat is the way to go about doing it. Boycotting the Olympics, great that'll bring a little media attention for a few weeks and then nothing. It wont change how there being treated. Like people have already stated, the only thing that will make China sit up and take notice is to stop trade. Politicians care more about money than sport.

**sum1** · 04-08-2008, 04:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Dark Half Undine (View Post)

If it mattered to them that much, they would already be doing things to stop their human rights abuses in Tibet and the Sudan.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think serious statement being made over the olympics could be different from what's gone before and have an effect. I think these olympics matter a lot to the Chinese government and turning them into a statement about Tibet etc could have an effect.

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Originally Posted by Dark Half Undine (View Post)

It's not like people don't know about it. LOTS of people know about it. The Dalai Lama travels around the world making sure people know about it.

And people ignore it. But they're not ignoring it now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Half Undine (View Post)

While I think that protesters should protest until the cows come home, at the same time I agree with Angel that economic and political motivation is going to be the final nail in the coffin to get China to do anything.

Well there isn't going to be economic and political motivation unless governments get the idea that people take the Tibet situation seriously. These demonstrations help to give that message. But really I don't think anybody's ever going to motivate China economically like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Half Undine (View Post)

Look at it this way. Everyone trades with China, Tibet and Sudan are not important political and economic threats and so China does nothing, it appears nobody cares.

Then last year, there were a number of health scares in the U.S. and among the general American public about recalled toys, chemicals in certain hygiene products, which DIRECTLY affected China and the economy and their appearance in the public eye of the world. What did they do then? They executed the people responsible for the slip up. Executed. Because of economics and business. Do you really think if the world said "No more trade until Tibet is freed" they wouldn't do anything.

I personally don't think so.

I don't see "no more trade with China" happening but serious statement over the olympics could happen and could have an effect.


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