[sunnykerr]

Originally Posted by ceilirose (View Post) I blame the IOC more than I blame the athletes for Beijing. After the fiasco in regards to the Salt Lake City Olympics you would have thought that they had learned a lesson but I guess not. Nothing is pristine in the world anymore. Commercialism, patriotism, nationalism and even bad sportsmanship all rear their head in the Olympics. It's a fact but if you're any kind of a sports fan you can't beat the competition. You can't fault the athletes in taking part in the Games or living their dream. Honestly until our political leaders and we ourselves start taking measures against China in ways that will make them hurt financially, politically etc. then we don't have much to stand on.

I completely agree. Well said!

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) What a lovely olympics. I didn't hear about them banning black people from going into bars. What excuse did they try to present for that? Other countries should really have put their foot down and said no you can't have racist rules. This is what you get when you stage the olympics in a country with a government like China's. In Britain in 2012 they won't be banning black people from going into bars.

So let me get this straight - the all almighty United States who allowed slavery for years and the segregation of Blacks in the 1950's should tell another country that the way they're treating another group of people is wrong? That's a good one.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) So let me get this straight - the all almighty United States who allowed slavery for years and the segregation of Blacks in the 1950's should tell another country that the way they're treating another group of people is wrong? That's a good one.

You mean you think we should all let people be mistreated and do nothing about it? Won't make any progress with that attitude.

Do you think that because many countries have misdeeds on their records they should all ignore it when another country mistreats people? Like prehaps all the world's countries should have ignored the genocide in Darfur?

(As it is, the genocide in Darfur got too little attention for too long, but I hardly think that's the way things should have gone.)

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) You mean you think we should all let people be mistreated and do nothing about it? Won't make any progress with that attitude.

Well, acting like we have every right to tell other countries what to do isn't any better. I don't recall China knocking on our door and asking for our help.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) Well, acting like we have every right to tell other countries what to do isn't any better. I don't recall China knocking on our door and asking for our help.

It's nothing to do with who has a right to tell who what to do. It's about the principle that if people are being mistreated then somebody should speak up and try to do something about it. It's about giving a damn about your fellow human beings. It's not about who's better than who, that's just a petty concern upon which attention should not wasted when there are actual human beings being mistreated.

[vc318]

It's so easy to say that we need to step in and change things for China but who are we to say what's necessarily better for them? We can't even get things straight in this country! We're so busy trying to make every other country like our own when our own country is failing itself. And if they're keeping Blacks out, who do you think is making that decision? The government or the people? We don't really know.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) It's so easy to say that we need to step in and change things for China but who are we to say what's necessarily better for them? .

I think it's clear that having better human rights is better for people. And I think the Tibetans would tell you that it would be better for them if China wasn't oppressing their country. "Who are we to say"? It doesn't matter who we are, it matters what needs to be said.

[vc318]

So why don't we suggest they do something about it? That's a heck of alot better than us stepping in and fighting their fight for them. I think they'd respect that more than us trying to change their country for them. That seems like all we've been doing for the past eight years - getting in everyone else's business.

[welshgirlyUK]

I'm not pinpointing leaders of particular countries and saying 'you need to condemn this.' But i do think it's our duty as citizens of this world to fight for each others rights and not just stand by and ignore some of the horrific things people in other nations are forced to endure. Were lucky enough to have freedom of speech and be able to campaign against the injustices we see and the wrong doings we think our own governments are doing. Other people dont have that luxury. If we sit back and wait for the politicians to take the initiative, nothing will ever change. And thats why people need to put pressure on there governments when they see people suffering, because some countries dont have the luxury of being able to complain to their leaders about unfair treatment without fear of retaliation.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) So why don't we suggest they do something about it? That's a heck of alot better than us stepping in and fighting their fight for them. I think they'd respect that more than us trying to change their country for them. That seems like all we've been doing for the past eight years - getting in everyone else's business.

You should notice that I never specified it was the US that should push for change, yet you've been talking as if the only relevant country is the US. The US isn't the only country in the world. I don't live in the US. I think any country that can make a stand should, not just the US. This isn't about the US.

And suggest who "do something about it"? People in China have already tried to do something. People in Tibet have tried to do something. It hasn't worked. The Chinese government isn't budging. Outside help is needed. And countries could suggest China "do something about it", which is what I'm talking about. What I started with was other countries making it clear to China that some things are not acceptable. Obviously that means suggesting China do something about it.

Originally Posted by welshgirlyUK (View Post) I'm not pinpointing leaders of particular countries and saying 'you need to condemn this.' But i do think it's our duty as citizens of this world to fight for each others rights and not just stand by and ignore some of the horrific things people in other nations are forced to endure. Were lucky enough to have freedom of speech and be able to campaign against the injustices we see and the wrong doings we think our own governments are doing. Other people dont have that luxury. If we sit back and wait for the politicians to take the initiative, nothing will ever change. And thats why people need to put pressure on there governments when they see people suffering, because some countries dont have the luxury of being able to complain to their leaders about unfair treatment without fear of retaliation.

Yep.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) You should notice that I never specified it was the US that should push for change, yet you've been talking as if the only relevant country is the US. The US isn't the only country in the world. I don't live in the US. I think any country that can make a stand should, not just the US. This isn't about the US.

Well, maybe the reason that other countries aren't helping is because they have problems of their own. I mentioned the United States because lately we've been so quick to help everyone else but our own president won't help the numerous people here who are losing their homes and are now homeless, dying of illnesses due to poor healthcare and other emotional factors. Actually, I think most countries are feeding off our own turmoil and doing just fine. I'm sorry for what's going on in China but you don't fight a battle for a week and expect a government like that to change. What solutions do you have to offer? Talk to the dictator? The people have done that. Protest? They've done that too. Fight? Well, I could go on forever. I really don't know what more we could do that they haven't tried already. What is so different about us that we should be so macho enough and tell their dictator to back off and play nice? Let's be realistic. And about your comment about you not living in the U.S., the way you're so passionate at the "Presidential Elections" thread, I always wondered well who would care so much about who should or should not become the next president if they weren't from the U.S. so...

[welshgirlyUK]

Maybe because the US presidential elections, whether we like it or not, impacts on the rest of the world. The phrase 'if the states sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold' spings to mind. The US economy went down the toilet and as a result the rest of the western world suffered too. It's in our best interests to have you elect a president whose gonna sort these issues out. Just because your not from that country, doesn't mean you cant have an opinion on how they operate.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by welshgirlyUK (View Post) Maybe because the US presidential elections, whether we like it or not, impacts on the rest of the world. The phrase 'if the states sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold' spings to mind. The US economy went down the toilet and as a result the rest of the western world suffered too. It's in our best interests to have you elect a president whose gonna sort these issues out. Just because your not from that country, doesn't mean you cant have an opinion on how they operate.

Which further makes my point that the U.S. president needs to stay out of certain foreign issues sometimes. What does the issue with China have anything to do with the economic crisis in the United States? We're in a financial mess because Bush continues to bankrupt us with the war and due to the housing mess. The housing mess was caused by poor decision making by lenders and people borrowing more than they could chew. I still can't figure out what the war is about since he can never give straight answer. First it was to get the terrorists and now I think it's to make the pockets of oil investors and weapons manufacturers fatter. Big shock. Whether or not the U.S. is doing well, China would still have those issues. Bush chooses to ignore the issues going on with his "own" people yet he wants to tell another country what's in their best interest. How would he know? He's made bad decisions from the get go. So opinions are fine but if we're on a mission to "hug the world," I'd like to think that my own president is following the same advice at home. And you've given Bush too much credit - other countries are reaping the benefits of our failures right now with such fury that's it's unbelievable. They're buying up business and residential properties at deep discounts, people abroad have managed to take the jobs of Americans in nearly every field, and as someone who lives in Florida - foreigners are vacationing here on pennies. If it's anyone hurting it's the United States.

[welshgirlyUK]

And again, i cant pinpoint where anyone other than you mentioned the states having anything to do with it. As far as i can see, no one said the USA should be the country to sort out the problem in China on here. The only one mentioning America is you.

[vc318]

The only one mentioning America is you.

Well, just a few posts ago you mentioned how much the world relies on who is the president of the United States so I'm going along with what you stated. And I keep mentioning the United States because whenever there is any world issue, it's such a big deal that we're involved. There are poorer places that need help like Haiti and the president hasn't even gone there. It's likely because they don't make any money for the United States. So, what solutions have your country suggested towards helping China? Are there even any in place? If you guys have helped them, we're not hearing about it. It seems like everyone else is waiting for the U.S. to do something first. I still think we should stay out of it. If other countries want to assist, more power to them.