[sunnykerr]

Originally Posted by Maybe_Tomorrow (View Post) Yeah me too. That's what i like about London, they've already planned a way that the stadium can be incorporated into the area once the games are over. Life continues to go on long after everyone leaves town, and often that can leave the city that hosted it in a mess. I really wish the games could be hosted in a less economically developed country, because i think they'd benefit more from it than the countries that mostly get awarded the games. I suppose it's just impossible for them though to be able to put the financial backing into it that it needs.

Hopefully, London does better than Montreal did in 1976. We've just finished paying for all the "new" construction and most of it has long ago fallen apart.

[welshgirlyUK]

I love the Olympics, i really do. I think there a magnificent event that brings the world together in celebration for 16 days, but i really dont think the amount they cost can ever be justified. Especially the amount China spent on the closing and opening ceromonies alone, it's a ridiculous quantity of money. And honestly, if thats the amount of money that would have to spent for the world to be pleased with the show London puts on, i'd rather them be dissapointed. I could never support my govt spending that quantity of money on the games when they could be put to the NHS, a far greater cause.

[Maybe_Tomorrow]

And that for me is what makes London beat China. Because the British people can tell there govt no and voice there protest and complain that the cost is unacceptable, like they already have done, without fear. The Chinese people didn't have that luxury.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) What a shameful olympics. Let's hope there isn't another like it.

Again - your opinion. Many thought it was great. And there was just one incident so, I guess not too many people thought it was as "shameful" as you say. The Chinese did a wonderful job. Despite their situation, i hope many came home to their families proud of their accomplishments.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) Again - your opinion.

Well of course it's my opinion, otherwise I wouldn't be saying it, would I?

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) And there was just one incident so, I guess not too many people thought it was as "shameful" as you say.

Plenty people have made it clear over the past year how shameful they think this olympics was.

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) The Chinese did a wonderful job.

Faking things and restricting things, yeah wonderful. (Though that's "China" or "the Chinese government" rather than "the Chinese", seeing as it's the government not the people doing that stuff.)

[welshgirlyUK]

I thought they put on a good show too, but lets be honest, there was more than one incident involved with this Olympics. I dont think people are saying these things to disrespect the Chinest people, who were wonderful, warm and welcoming by all acounts to the athletes. This is a criticism of their goverment.

[vc318]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) Faking things and restricting things, yeah wonderful. (Though that's "China" or "the Chinese government" rather than "the Chinese", seeing as it's the government not the people doing that stuff.)

Could it be that the Olympics is about the players and not the government? I think the Chinese athletes are fully aware that they have no control over their government. What does that have anything to do with them competing for medals? And you just insulted them for their hard work by saying the medals they earned were fake. I guess all that training was fake too. And while we're talking about China being a worthy place for the Olympics or not, who has the right to decide that? I guess it would be a complete horror for the Olympics to be held in Afghanistan and Russia too? Someone better tell them that they're not worthy to compete either next time.

I thought they put on a good show too, but lets be honest, there was more than one incident involved with this Olympics. I dont think people are saying these things to disrespect the Chinest people, who were wonderful, warm and welcoming by all acounts to the athletes. This is a criticism of their goverment.

True but the athletes are the one's competing - not the government. The athletes are there to compete and that's it. I'm sure a day doesn't go by for them when they're not thinking about how much their government stinks. But sometimes we really need to get off our high horse. China is no worse off than other places. It would be nice for once if politics could stay out of a simple game for two weeks. I'm sure people are forming their own opinion about the 2012 London Olympics right now.

[ceilirose]

I think the Winter Olympics after Vancouver (2014) will be held in Russia. We'll see what happens with that.

Also Chicago is in the running for the 2016 summer games. If we're still in Iraq then how many countries will urge a boycott then? Let's be real - our presence there is more than controversial. Or maybe Chicago won't get it because of Iraq.

[sunnykerr]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) True but the athletes are the one's competing - not the government. The athletes are there to compete and that's it. I'm sure a day doesn't go by for them when they're not thinking about how much their government stinks. But sometimes we really need to get off our high horse. China is no worse off than other places. It would be nice for once if politics could stay out of a simple game for two weeks. I'm sure people are forming their own opinion about the 2012 London Olympics right now.

At the end of the day, that's exactly why I couldn't write off these Olympics.

That they were held in China is appalling and, as far as I'm concerned, a real bad call from the IOC, but as long they were going to be held anywhere, it's about the athletes at the end of the day.

Georgia was invaded while the Olympics were held, there was a coup in Mauritania, and who knows what other conflicts were raging? Some of these athletes had no Olympic-level facilities to train with and yet they qualified. And, yeah, other times it was just a question of athletes being given ample opportunity to compete to the highest level.

But to write the whole thing off because these athletes were being hosted by a rather despicable government flies in the face of what the Olympics are supposed to be about: sports and competition. These athletes have nothing to do with China. They shouldn't be penalized because of a bad call from the IOC.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) Could it be that the Olympics is about the players and not the government? I think the Chinese athletes are fully aware that they have no control over their government. What does that have anything to do with them competing for medals? And you just insulted them for their hard work by saying the medals they earned were fake. I guess all that training was fake too.

Who said anything about Chinese athletes? "Faking things" doesn't refer to athletes, it refers to stuff like pretending a girl is singing when it's another girl who's not seen as good-looking enough to be presented, or lining up a bunch of kids who were supposed to represent the different ethnic minorities of China except they all came from China's dominant ethnic group. That's faking things in a way that I think says a lot about the Chinese government's attitudes. Note I pointed out in my last post that I was talking about the government not the people, so obviously I wasn't talking about the athletes. There's no need to jump to false conclusions and jump down my throat. I didn't insult the athletes.

But as for the olympics being about the players and not the government, that's debatable. No one should miss the fact that the olympics were created to serve a political end and are very much about politics. Giving the olympics to China was a big statement of approval for the Chinese govrnment. These olympics were definitely about the government.

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) And while we're talking about China being a worthy place for the Olympics or not, who has the right to decide that? I guess it would be a complete horror for the Olympics to be held in Afghanistan and Russia too? Someone better tell them that they're not worthy to compete either next time.

How did you jump from not being the right country to host the olympics to not being "worthy" to compete? That's not the same thing you know. I never said any country wasn't worthy to compete. I've talked about China not being the right place for the olympics because of what its government has been doing.

"And while we're talking about China being a worthy place for the Olympics or not, who has the right to decide that?"

I don't know, the Tibetans maybe?

Originally Posted by vc318 (View Post) True but the athletes are the one's competing - not the government. The athletes are there to compete and that's it. I'm sure a day doesn't go by for them when they're not thinking about how much their government stinks. But sometimes we really need to get off our high horse. China is no worse off than other places. It would be nice for once if politics could stay out of a simple game for two weeks. I'm sure people are forming their own opinion about the 2012 London Olympics right now.

"It would be nice for once if politics could stay out of a simple game for two weeks."

Except it's NOT a simple game. It's about politics and it always has been about politics.

"the athletes are the one's competing - not the government"

That's debatable. This olympics was all about effectively celebrating the Chinese government -worldwide approval, rubber-stamped by getting the olympics. The Chinese government was "competing" for what amounts to worldwide acceptance of its policies (worldwide celebration of its policies even).

"But sometimes we really need to get off our high horse."

I don't think calling for better human rights and for freedom for an oppressed nation is getting on a high horse.

"China is no worse off than other places."

What other places? China is way worse off than some places.

"I'm sure people are forming their own opinion about the 2012 London Olympics right now."

People have all sorts of opinions. That's the world.

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) it's about the athletes at the end of the day. But to write the whole thing off because these athletes were being hosted by a rather despicable government flies in the face of what the Olympics are supposed to be about: sports and competition.

The olympics have always been about politics and this olympics was about the world effectively approving what the Chinese government has been doing. Let's not miss the big picture here.

[welshgirlyUK]

I'm sure people formed their own opinion about London hosting when they entered the bid and if people want to say we shouldn't have it because of Iraq, then there well within their right to express that and i honestly wouldn't have an issue with that.

Lets be frank, there were several issues that were raised before and during the Chinese Olympics, not just one. The girl, the fireworks, their human rights, people being thrown out of their homes, the banning of Black people from going into bars, the effect of the pollution levels on athletes, the juding, the ages of their competitors, the arresting of foreign reporters for covering protests, spectators being arrested and thrown out of the county for voicing their opinion on Tibet and the banning of certain flags. And thats just the ones i had from the top of my head.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by welshgirlyUK (View Post) Lets be frank, there were several issues that were raised before and during the Chinese Olympics, not just one. The girl, the fireworks, their human rights, people being thrown out of their homes, the banning of Black people from going into bars, the effect of the pollution levels on athletes, the juding, the ages of their competitors, the arresting of foreign reporters for covering protests, spectators being arrested and thrown out of the county for voicing their opinion on Tibet and the banning of certain flags. And thats just the ones i had from the top of my head.

What a lovely olympics. I didn't hear about them banning black people from going into bars. What excuse did they try to present for that? Other countries should really have put their foot down and said no you can't have racist rules. This is what you get when you stage the olympics in a country with a government like China's. In Britain in 2012 they won't be banning black people from going into bars.

[welshgirlyUK]

I read about it weeks ago, i'll see if i can find the article and post it. Edited to include quotes from articles.

Bar owners near the Workers' Stadium in central Beijing say they have been forced by Public Security Bureau officials to sign pledges agreeing not to let black people enter their premises. "Uniformed Public Security Bureau officers came into the bar recently and told me not to serve black people or Mongolians," said the co-owner of a western-style bar, who asked not to be named.

Source

Bar owners around the Workers' Stadium in downtown Beijing say that public security officials are telling them not to let in "blacks" and Mongolians, and many of them have even had to sign a pledge. The official reason is the fight against drugs and prostitution, dominated in the past by Mongolians and persons of colour. Moreover, public places must close by 2 a.m., for security reasons, and the bar owners are being asked to remind their clients that they must always have an identification document with them. There is even doubt over whether the bars within a radius of two kilometres from the Olympic buildings will be able operate, or whether they will have to shut down for the entire period. In some areas, tables are not permitted outside, because "the presence of too many foreigners gathered outside could create problems". There is also an attempt to shut down outdoor musical concerts, to prevent disorder.

Source

[ceilirose]

I blame the IOC more than I blame the athletes for Beijing. After the fiasco in regards to the Salt Lake City Olympics you would have thought that they had learned a lesson but I guess not.

Nothing is pristine in the world anymore. Commercialism, patriotism, nationalism and even bad sportsmanship all rear their head in the Olympics. It's a fact but if you're any kind of a sports fan you can't beat the competition.

You can't fault the athletes in taking part in the Games or living their dream. Honestly until our political leaders and we ourselves start taking measures against China in ways that will make them hurt financially, politically etc. then we don't have much to stand on.

The U.S. can't do much because Chinese money makes our Government viable. As much as I hate buying things made in China it's nearly impossible to do that anymore. What with the rising living costs and stagnant wages you almost have no choice.

[sum1]

See the bit here (4th paragraph of the main text) about restrictons on medicines, restrictions which the article says could present particular problems for the poor and old:

CHINA Beijing 2008: bars forbidden to serve "blacks" and Mongolians, outdoor tables banned - Asia News

I'm glad I don't live in China.